WEBVTT 00:00:12.980 --> 00:00:23.070 I've already thanked you all for coming. Those of you here tonight that have heard David Irving speak are aware of his abilities of an orator, and no doubt that's why you've come. 00:00:23.070 --> 00:00:36.470 Those who are not familiar with his speaking abilities but have read his books will not be disappointed. Anyone here not familiar with tonight's speaker is in for a real treat. 00:00:36.470 --> 00:00:43.470 Those of you who have not yet been exposed to history that has been made according to the facts may be in for a surprise. 00:00:43.470 --> 00:00:50.300 If that's the case, do not be aggravated at the bearer of the truth, but rather the repeater of the lies. 00:00:50.300 --> 00:00:59.820 The works of David Irving are irrefutably documented, so much so that his 15-year-old, $1,000 challenge to anyone that proves him wrong remains uncollected. 00:00:59.820 --> 00:01:06.740 On the other hand, however, we have the documentaries and historical accounts by the mainstream media. 00:01:06.740 --> 00:01:14.220 The same people who give us things like the disgusting W.E.B.N. billboards and the Mapplethorpe exhibits. 00:01:14.220 --> 00:01:16.830 One should be suspect of even the worst. 00:01:16.830 --> 00:01:22.240 The same people who use the page numbers used by people who produce such trash. 00:01:22.240 --> 00:01:34.010 Because a solid understanding of history is present and anticipating the future, people are most interested in historical questions during times of crisis or when the future seems most uncertain. 00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:37.010 Today is a good time for an interest in history. 00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:42.260 Too many people are aware of the symptoms of our trouble but cannot finger the cause. 00:01:42.260 --> 00:01:50.420 Like ice water thrown on heavy sleepers, the Clinton administration has been shock therapy to wake up complacent Americans, 00:01:50.420 --> 00:01:51.420 to the symptoms. 00:01:51.420 --> 00:02:00.440 But how many realize the extent that disease-ridden, internationalist parasites have infected our republic, independent of the Clintons? 00:02:00.440 --> 00:02:06.440 Americans need to understand and inform themselves on the origins and causes of the present ills we suffer from. 00:02:06.440 --> 00:02:13.040 We must destroy the roots of this ignominious growth before it takes us over. 00:02:13.040 --> 00:02:19.520 It will cure little to focus only on the Clinton administration as the main problem, offensive though it is. 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:21.520 To remedy our current situation, 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:30.520 we must cut away the dead tissue remaining from all the previous internationalist, socialistic, and anti-Christian policies upon which these parasites feed. 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:40.060 We must reevaluate the propaganda and lies leveled at us from media and government throughout this century, perhaps even earlier. 00:02:40.060 --> 00:02:45.420 Surely no one thinks that today's treasonous policies were hatched or suckled overnight. 00:02:45.420 --> 00:02:52.700 This is relatively easy to qualify by pointing at just a few examples of the various tactics, 00:02:52.700 --> 00:02:55.700 lies and deceptions spewed at us throughout this century, 00:02:55.700 --> 00:03:00.700 such as the Federal Reserve Acts of 1913 and 1933. 00:03:00.700 --> 00:03:05.920 Our money is controlled by a few international banking houses, not by Congress. 00:03:05.920 --> 00:03:08.110 As Amschel Rothschild once stated, 00:03:08.110 --> 00:03:12.110 let me control the money of a nation and I care not who makes its laws. 00:03:12.110 --> 00:03:15.110 We were dragged into it of these internationalists. 00:03:15.110 --> 00:03:20.110 Of course, to justify for the men leaving their wives and mothers to go fight a war across the ocean, 00:03:20.110 --> 00:03:22.110 Americans were bombarded with propaganda. 00:03:23.110 --> 00:03:28.590 Unfortunately, the truth and what people are told are very seldom the same. 00:03:28.590 --> 00:03:31.590 This is true especially in the time of war. 00:03:31.590 --> 00:03:40.260 One of the most internationalist, socialistic, communist sympathizing men we've had in the White House to date was Franklin Delano Roosevelt. 00:03:40.260 --> 00:03:50.100 Despite some of his campaign speeches, his desire was great to again embroil the U.S. into war at the behest of the international bankers. 00:03:50.100 --> 00:03:54.860 Again, the propaganda machine worked overtime to stir up hatred of the Germans. 00:03:55.860 --> 00:04:03.370 With Bolshevik communism as our ally, we were told that Russia's victories were our victories, 00:04:03.370 --> 00:04:08.430 that America had to fight to save democracy, 00:04:08.430 --> 00:04:10.560 that we had to fight for freedom. 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.560 What we actually did was save communism for Europe. 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:20.580 Our intervention not only kept the bloodiest regime in history alive, it added to its expansion. 00:04:20.580 --> 00:04:27.000 At Yalta, Roosevelt and Churchill acquiesced to Stalin the peoples and countries of Eastern Europe. 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:28.930 So much for our fight for freedom. 00:04:29.930 --> 00:04:33.630 As the Hungarians have said, 00:04:33.630 --> 00:04:36.630 gladly would we suffer again the worst experiences of our history, 00:04:36.630 --> 00:04:39.630 even the waging of world war on our own soil, 00:04:39.630 --> 00:04:42.630 but God save us from another liberation. 00:04:42.630 --> 00:04:47.530 In spite of the now popular so-called victory celebrations, 00:04:47.530 --> 00:04:49.530 this country has plenty of room for regret. 00:04:49.530 --> 00:04:53.200 Adding to the deceitful global policeman policies, 00:04:53.200 --> 00:05:00.200 we were also lied to about the income tax, social security, welfare, the Korean War, 00:05:00.200 --> 00:05:01.460 Vietnam, 00:05:01.460 --> 00:05:03.460 the missing POWs, 00:05:03.460 --> 00:05:05.870 and on and on. 00:05:05.870 --> 00:05:09.870 If Americans had a better understanding of the sellouts that have been perpetrated 00:05:09.870 --> 00:05:11.870 by so many preceding administrations, 00:05:11.870 --> 00:05:15.220 which definitely include Republican ones, 00:05:15.220 --> 00:05:17.220 people would be ashamed to advertise things like, 00:05:17.220 --> 00:05:20.220 don't blame me, I voted for Bush. 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:26.660 Today the terms conservative and liberal are so bantied about, 00:05:26.660 --> 00:05:32.020 they have about as much contrast in usage as Republican and Democrat. 00:05:32.020 --> 00:05:34.020 The only difference between a conservative, 00:05:34.020 --> 00:05:36.020 Republican internationalist, 00:05:36.020 --> 00:05:38.020 and a liberal Democrat one is the ride. 00:05:38.020 --> 00:05:40.020 Your destination is the same. 00:05:40.020 --> 00:05:44.850 People who understand this are reviled as isolationists. 00:05:44.850 --> 00:05:49.010 The best definition of an isolationist that I've heard to date is, 00:05:49.010 --> 00:05:54.010 someone who is against the subsidizing or the slaughter of foreigners. 00:05:54.010 --> 00:05:59.160 Some great men of the past who have been reviled as isolationists 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:02.930 are vindicated by historians such as David Irving. 00:06:02.930 --> 00:06:05.930 David Irving was born in Essex, England in 1938. 00:06:05.930 --> 00:06:08.930 He is the son of a Royal Navy commander. 00:06:08.930 --> 00:06:13.220 He received his college education at London University. 00:06:13.220 --> 00:06:16.220 As an example of Irving's dedication to accuracy, 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:19.220 he worked for a whole year in a steel mill in Germany 00:06:19.220 --> 00:06:23.220 to perfect his fluency and knowledge in the German language. 00:06:23.220 --> 00:06:24.660 While working there, 00:06:24.660 --> 00:06:27.660 Irving began gathering information on the history of those cities 00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:33.210 that had experienced the full impact of Allied bombardment during World War II. 00:06:33.210 --> 00:06:34.210 After four years of his research, 00:06:34.210 --> 00:06:35.210 his first book, 00:06:35.210 --> 00:06:37.210 The Destruction of Germany, 00:06:37.210 --> 00:06:38.210 by Mr. Dresden, 00:06:38.210 --> 00:06:40.490 was published. 00:06:40.490 --> 00:06:41.490 It was 1963, 00:06:41.490 --> 00:06:43.490 and he was 23 years old. 00:06:43.490 --> 00:06:46.810 This book alone has sold over a million copies. 00:06:46.810 --> 00:06:51.900 He has been described as Britain's most financially successful historian. 00:06:51.900 --> 00:06:53.260 His bestseller, 00:06:53.260 --> 00:06:54.260 The Desert Fox, 00:06:54.260 --> 00:06:58.260 earned $250,000 in U.S. paperback rights alone. 00:06:58.260 --> 00:07:00.860 In 1967, 00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:03.860 Hugh Trevor Roper described him as one of the, 00:07:03.860 --> 00:07:04.860 quote, 00:07:04.860 --> 00:07:06.860 few guys I would entirely trust, 00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:08.860 indefatigable in pursuit of evidence, 00:07:08.860 --> 00:07:10.860 fearless in the face of it, 00:07:10.860 --> 00:07:11.860 sound in judgment, 00:07:11.860 --> 00:07:13.860 end quote. 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:15.540 In 1971, 00:07:15.540 --> 00:07:16.540 the London Times said, 00:07:16.540 --> 00:07:20.540 David Irving takes his place in the first rank of historical chroniclers. 00:07:20.540 --> 00:07:22.910 Irving, 00:07:22.910 --> 00:07:24.910 who had been highly acclaimed both by critics 00:07:24.910 --> 00:07:27.910 and the world's most prestigious publishing houses, 00:07:27.910 --> 00:07:30.910 fell from their grace with Hitler's war 00:07:30.910 --> 00:07:35.910 when he chose to stick with the facts uncovered in his ten years of research put into the book, 00:07:35.910 --> 00:07:40.970 thus proving that Irving is more interested in truth than book sales. 00:07:40.970 --> 00:07:44.860 He was especially reviled after his book, 00:07:44.860 --> 00:07:45.860 Uprising, 00:07:45.860 --> 00:07:50.960 which pulled no punches about the Hungarian uprising of 1956. 00:07:50.960 --> 00:07:54.960 He was subsequently blacklisted by the ADL of the B'nai B'rith. 00:07:54.960 --> 00:08:01.700 This meant that he was shut out of the big-name publishing houses despite their praise of him in the past. 00:08:01.700 --> 00:08:04.700 Rather than wilt under this discriminatory treatment, 00:08:04.700 --> 00:08:06.700 Irving turned to alternate publishers, 00:08:06.700 --> 00:08:07.700 rented a truck, 00:08:07.700 --> 00:08:11.700 and personally delivered his books to over 480 bookstores throughout England. 00:08:11.700 --> 00:08:14.980 Determined to defeat him, 00:08:14.980 --> 00:08:16.980 but always unwilling to meet him for debate, 00:08:16.980 --> 00:08:20.980 his rivals have used various methods in their attempts to dispose of him, 00:08:20.980 --> 00:08:24.980 such as burglary, arson, and false arrest. 00:08:24.980 --> 00:08:27.940 Burglary in that Gerald Gable, 00:08:27.940 --> 00:08:30.940 a former communist election candidate 00:08:30.940 --> 00:08:32.940 and later a weekend television producer 00:08:34.940 --> 00:08:40.380 was convicted for burglarizing Irving's flat using a stolen post office identity card. 00:08:40.380 --> 00:08:43.740 He admitted membership in an underground organization 00:08:43.740 --> 00:08:48.740 which had ordered him to steal Irving's research papers to prevent the work on his next book. 00:08:48.740 --> 00:08:54.500 Arson in that the Sussex printing works where Irving's magazine Focal Point was produced 00:08:54.500 --> 00:08:57.500 was burnt to the ground by one of Gable's associates, 00:08:57.500 --> 00:09:01.500 who was caught red-handed and later received a prison sentence. 00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:05.790 False arrest in countries such as Austria and Canada, 00:09:05.790 --> 00:09:08.790 which it's possible the author may touch upon tonight in his talk. 00:09:08.790 --> 00:09:11.820 Through all of this, 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:15.820 the world's most combative and prolific historian remains undaunted. 00:09:15.820 --> 00:09:21.820 And although his tenacity and obstinacy for the truth has cost him no small amount, 00:09:21.820 --> 00:09:25.780 his works are still being published by impressive firms 00:09:25.780 --> 00:09:28.780 and widely read despite the efforts of his enemies. 00:09:28.780 --> 00:09:32.250 To quote his slogan, 00:09:32.250 --> 00:09:34.250 the fight continues to final victory. 00:09:34.250 --> 00:09:36.250 Expensive though it is. 00:09:36.250 --> 00:09:38.760 With men of Irving's character, 00:09:38.760 --> 00:09:40.760 we stand on the shoulders of giants. 00:09:40.760 --> 00:09:44.860 But in his case we may even reach farther by standing on a stack of his books. 00:09:44.860 --> 00:09:48.180 Books that you can count on due to his British obstinacy 00:09:48.180 --> 00:09:50.180 to uncover the truth, 00:09:50.180 --> 00:09:52.180 an act for which he has become famous. 00:09:52.180 --> 00:09:56.260 Lastly, we will pass around the hat tonight 00:09:56.260 --> 00:09:58.260 to pay for tonight's expenses. 00:09:58.260 --> 00:10:01.490 Room rental alone is nearly $500 00:10:01.490 --> 00:10:03.490 and the refreshments are extra. 00:10:03.490 --> 00:10:05.620 There was no door charge because it was hoped 00:10:05.620 --> 00:10:07.620 that everyone would give what they could afford. 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:11.420 All money over expenses go to support David Irving 00:10:11.420 --> 00:10:12.420 and his fight for truth. 00:10:12.420 --> 00:10:14.420 Please be generous. 00:10:14.420 --> 00:10:17.250 Now it is my pleasure to introduce and welcome 00:10:17.250 --> 00:10:19.250 our eloquent speaker, 00:10:19.250 --> 00:10:20.250 the very British historian, 00:10:20.250 --> 00:10:21.250 David Irving. 00:10:21.250 --> 00:11:09.820 I will go ahead and start passing around the hat. 00:11:14.300 --> 00:11:15.300 Well, ladies and gentlemen, 00:11:15.300 --> 00:11:19.620 I guess there wasn't very much else on in Cincinnati tonight. 00:11:19.620 --> 00:11:23.620 I'm astonished at the numbers of you who have turned out to hear me. 00:11:23.620 --> 00:11:27.000 I know very few of the faces who are here this evening 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:30.000 and very few of you have met me. 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:32.000 The hour that I'm going to speak, 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.000 we'll have a 10 or 15 minute break after that 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.000 and then I'll be very happy to take any questions 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:38.000 that you want to ask, 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.000 any kind of discussion after that. 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.000 So let's have no interruptions while I'm talking. 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:45.100 We'll have a discussion after the interval. 00:11:45.100 --> 00:11:49.700 I'm hoping that you will find it a rewarding journey, 00:11:49.700 --> 00:11:51.700 the coming 60 minutes. 00:11:51.700 --> 00:11:53.220 Talking of journeys, 00:11:53.220 --> 00:11:55.220 I've been on the road for the last seven days 00:11:55.220 --> 00:11:59.220 driving up from the very southernmost point of the United States 00:11:59.220 --> 00:12:01.470 and over the next three weeks, 00:12:01.470 --> 00:12:02.470 my speaking tour, 00:12:02.470 --> 00:12:05.570 which tonight is the first actual engagement, 00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:07.570 will take me in a zigzag course from here 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:10.570 right up to the Great Lakes and across to New Jersey 00:12:10.570 --> 00:12:15.370 and back down to the southernmost point in Key West 00:12:15.370 --> 00:12:17.370 and then the very next day over to Los Angeles 00:12:17.370 --> 00:12:19.370 and I drive up to Seattle and back 00:12:19.370 --> 00:12:21.370 and then across to Denver and Colorado, 00:12:21.370 --> 00:12:23.370 all between now and October the 23rd 00:12:23.370 --> 00:12:25.370 and I do this every year 00:12:25.370 --> 00:12:27.370 and you can begin to understand 00:12:27.370 --> 00:12:30.370 why I'm a thorn in the side of certain people 00:12:30.370 --> 00:12:34.460 who have a vested interest in propagating their own version of history 00:12:34.460 --> 00:12:36.460 which may have very little to do with American interests 00:12:36.460 --> 00:12:38.590 or with British interests, 00:12:38.590 --> 00:12:40.590 but it has become big business. 00:12:40.590 --> 00:12:42.590 And the latter part of my talk 00:12:42.590 --> 00:12:44.880 will be devoted, really, 00:12:44.880 --> 00:12:47.880 to examining parts of that great legend. 00:12:47.880 --> 00:12:50.620 This drive up here from the southernmost point 00:12:50.620 --> 00:12:52.620 has, however, been useful in one way 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:56.620 because it has enabled me to brush up on my spoken American. 00:12:56.620 --> 00:12:59.640 I speak quite a lot of languages. 00:12:59.640 --> 00:13:01.640 We learn a lot of languages at school. 00:13:01.640 --> 00:13:03.930 We learn, in my case, 00:13:03.930 --> 00:13:05.930 French and German and Russian and Latin 00:13:05.930 --> 00:13:07.930 and all the other useful or useless languages 00:13:07.930 --> 00:13:09.930 that you need in your journey through life. 00:13:11.150 --> 00:13:13.150 But nobody ever told me as a writer 00:13:13.150 --> 00:13:15.150 that I was going to need to learn American. 00:13:15.150 --> 00:13:18.820 Not until I wrote my Adolf Hitler biography 00:13:18.820 --> 00:13:21.820 which was published over here by the Viking Press, 00:13:21.820 --> 00:13:24.820 one of the great names in the publishing industry. 00:13:24.820 --> 00:13:26.920 And that's when I first discovered that 00:13:26.920 --> 00:13:28.920 writers, if they want to succeed in life, 00:13:28.920 --> 00:13:31.920 have to learn to write and read and speak 00:13:31.920 --> 00:13:34.920 a kind of mid-Atlantic English. 00:13:34.920 --> 00:13:36.920 It was Winston Churchill, I think, 00:13:36.920 --> 00:13:38.920 who once said, or was it before him, 00:13:38.920 --> 00:13:40.920 George Bernard Shaw, 00:13:40.920 --> 00:13:43.140 in the English language, 00:13:43.140 --> 00:13:45.140 that the British and the American peoples 00:13:45.140 --> 00:13:47.660 are divided by a common language. 00:13:47.660 --> 00:13:49.660 And I didn't understand how true that was 00:13:49.660 --> 00:13:51.660 until this book was being edited 00:13:51.660 --> 00:13:53.660 by my American editor, Stan Hoffman. 00:13:53.660 --> 00:13:55.660 And he would come on sentences in this book 00:13:55.660 --> 00:13:58.660 which showed to me how very different our language... 00:13:58.660 --> 00:14:00.660 For example, there's a passage after the bomb attempt 00:14:00.660 --> 00:14:03.660 on Adolf Hitler's life in July 1944 00:14:03.660 --> 00:14:05.660 when the traitors have put a bomb 00:14:05.660 --> 00:14:08.660 under Adolf Hitler's table in an attempt to kill him 00:14:08.660 --> 00:14:10.660 at the war's darkest pass for Germany. 00:14:11.910 --> 00:14:14.910 And he survives that attempt, shaken but not stirred, 00:14:14.910 --> 00:14:16.910 and he goes down into his bunker bedroom 00:14:16.910 --> 00:14:19.910 with his pants, or I would say his trousers, 00:14:19.910 --> 00:14:22.140 in tatters, in his shirt sleeves, 00:14:22.140 --> 00:14:24.140 and he sits on the edge of his bed 00:14:24.140 --> 00:14:26.140 in his shirt sleeves and braces 00:14:26.140 --> 00:14:29.140 and feels his own pulse, 73. 00:14:29.140 --> 00:14:32.140 And he says to his doctor, whose diary I found, 00:14:32.140 --> 00:14:34.140 you see, quite normal, 73. 00:14:34.140 --> 00:14:36.140 And I describe this in the book, 00:14:36.140 --> 00:14:39.140 and my American editor says, Dave, a great scene, I like it, 00:14:39.140 --> 00:14:41.140 but we're going to have to change that sentence a bit. 00:14:41.140 --> 00:14:43.140 You can't say the Fuhrer sat on the edge of his bed 00:14:43.140 --> 00:14:46.140 in his shirt sleeves and braces and felt his pulse. 00:14:46.140 --> 00:14:49.140 It's going to have to be he sat on the edge of his bed 00:14:49.140 --> 00:14:51.140 in his shirt sleeves and suspenders. 00:14:51.140 --> 00:14:54.000 Now, what you don't know is that in England, 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:58.000 suspenders is what a woman wears to hold her stockings up. 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.000 What you would call a garter belt. 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.000 So the idea of the Fuhrer of the greater German Reich 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.000 being some kind of prevert who sits in his bedroom 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:12.000 wearing a lady's garter belt to hold his stockings up 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.130 there was no way around it. 00:15:14.130 --> 00:15:15.130 That sentence had to go. 00:15:15.130 --> 00:15:17.450 We had to cut it out. 00:15:17.450 --> 00:15:20.450 And then we had Ribbentrop, the Nazi foreign minister. 00:15:20.450 --> 00:15:23.450 I describe in one part how Joachim von Ribbentrop, 00:15:23.450 --> 00:15:26.450 he had a skeleton in the cupboard, too. 00:15:26.450 --> 00:15:28.800 That's the English expression. 00:15:28.800 --> 00:15:31.800 The mid-American editor, Stan Hochmann, says, 00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:33.800 David, we're going to have to change that. 00:15:33.800 --> 00:15:37.150 It's going to have to be Ribbentrop had a skeleton in the closet. 00:15:37.150 --> 00:15:39.150 Now, in England, a closet, or water closet, 00:15:39.150 --> 00:15:41.150 is what you people call a bathroom. 00:15:41.150 --> 00:15:43.280 Not that we, English people, know that. 00:15:43.280 --> 00:15:46.280 English tourists expect now to find a bath in that bathroom. 00:15:46.280 --> 00:15:49.310 It's what the Australians call a Dunny. 00:15:49.310 --> 00:15:51.310 Or you Americans call a John. 00:15:51.310 --> 00:15:54.570 I mean, it's a language problem. 00:15:54.570 --> 00:15:57.570 That sentence had to go as well. 00:15:57.570 --> 00:15:59.660 We're tyrannized by language. 00:15:59.660 --> 00:16:01.660 And so that sentence was cut out. 00:16:01.660 --> 00:16:04.660 It's part of the growing up process of being an author. 00:16:04.660 --> 00:16:05.660 You learn how to write. 00:16:05.660 --> 00:16:07.660 I like the American language. 00:16:07.660 --> 00:16:09.660 I think it's a very virile language. 00:16:09.660 --> 00:16:11.660 Or virile, you would say. Virile language. 00:16:11.660 --> 00:16:13.660 I like to talk of trucks instead of lorries. 00:16:13.660 --> 00:16:15.660 Because it has a bit more punch, that word. 00:16:15.660 --> 00:16:17.660 And so you find my books, those of you who've read them, 00:16:17.660 --> 00:16:20.660 that I've got a kind of mid-Atlantic argot, 00:16:20.660 --> 00:16:23.660 which I've adopted from my books. 00:16:23.660 --> 00:16:25.660 So I thoroughly irritate everybody now. 00:16:25.660 --> 00:16:27.660 It annoys the English people who write to me and say, 00:16:27.660 --> 00:16:30.660 don't you know how to spell labor and favor, Mr. Irving? 00:16:30.660 --> 00:16:33.660 Don't you know they have U's in those words over here? 00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:35.660 And of course I annoy the American readers 00:16:35.660 --> 00:16:37.660 who find all sorts of Anglicisms. 00:16:37.660 --> 00:16:40.660 This English touch, 00:16:40.660 --> 00:16:42.660 which irritates the pants of the American readers. 00:16:42.660 --> 00:16:44.660 In particular my editors. 00:16:44.660 --> 00:16:47.660 I had a general who was being summoned to Hitler. 00:16:47.660 --> 00:16:50.660 It was quite obvious that he was going to be sentenced to death. 00:16:50.660 --> 00:16:52.660 And I say the general was sentenced to Hitler 00:16:52.660 --> 00:16:55.660 and it was obvious he couldn't expect a promotion that afternoon. 00:16:55.660 --> 00:16:56.660 And my editor, he said, 00:16:56.660 --> 00:16:59.660 you English write that kind of thing with a kind of levity. 00:16:59.660 --> 00:17:02.660 But we Americans, we can't get away with it. 00:17:02.660 --> 00:17:04.660 So that sentence had to go as well. 00:17:04.660 --> 00:17:05.920 It irritates people. 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:07.920 But I've been accustomed to irritating people 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:09.920 the last 20 or 30 years 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:12.920 because I'm an independent writer. 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:15.110 I'm independent inasmuch as 00:17:15.110 --> 00:17:17.110 I don't work for anyone 00:17:17.110 --> 00:17:19.110 and I can't be sacked. 00:17:19.110 --> 00:17:21.110 I've got no university position. 00:17:21.110 --> 00:17:22.110 I'm not a professor. 00:17:22.110 --> 00:17:23.110 I'm not a doctor, 00:17:23.110 --> 00:17:24.110 which is very important in Germany 00:17:24.110 --> 00:17:26.110 to have a doctor's title in front of your name. 00:17:26.110 --> 00:17:27.110 Even chimney sweeps that doctor this 00:17:27.110 --> 00:17:29.110 and doctor that in Germany or Austria. 00:17:29.110 --> 00:17:31.110 I'm just plain Mr. David Irving. 00:17:31.110 --> 00:17:33.110 So I can't be dismissed. 00:17:33.110 --> 00:17:35.110 I can't be dismissed from a school. 00:17:35.110 --> 00:17:37.110 I can't be dismissed now from a publishing house 00:17:37.110 --> 00:17:39.110 because I've set up my own publishing house. 00:17:39.110 --> 00:17:41.110 When I published the new edition of this book in England, 00:17:41.110 --> 00:17:43.110 I set up what is called 00:17:43.110 --> 00:17:45.110 my own imprint. 00:17:45.110 --> 00:17:47.110 Because I recognize that the day is going to come 00:17:47.110 --> 00:17:49.110 when so much pressure has been put by these vested interests 00:17:49.110 --> 00:17:51.110 on my publishers around the world 00:17:51.110 --> 00:17:53.110 that I don't have another publisher left 00:17:53.110 --> 00:17:54.110 who's going to publish me 00:17:54.110 --> 00:17:56.110 unless I've built my own publishing house. 00:17:56.110 --> 00:17:58.110 So I did that too. 00:17:58.110 --> 00:18:00.110 I've set up my own publishing imprint in England 00:18:00.110 --> 00:18:01.110 called Focal Point. 00:18:01.110 --> 00:18:02.110 That's the big F on the back. 00:18:02.110 --> 00:18:03.110 Not Fuhrer, not Fascist, 00:18:03.110 --> 00:18:05.110 not anything else. 00:18:05.110 --> 00:18:07.110 Just Focal Point, the publishing imprint. 00:18:07.110 --> 00:18:10.110 And the only thing that my enemies in England can do now, 00:18:10.110 --> 00:18:11.110 and they've been trying, 00:18:11.110 --> 00:18:13.110 is when I started selling this book 00:18:13.110 --> 00:18:15.110 and as Rick said, 00:18:15.110 --> 00:18:17.110 I've been around a lot of bookshops in England. 00:18:17.110 --> 00:18:18.110 I like it. 00:18:18.110 --> 00:18:20.110 There's not 450 bookshops in fact. 00:18:20.110 --> 00:18:22.110 The actual total now is 870 bookshops in England 00:18:22.110 --> 00:18:24.300 who sell my books. 00:18:24.300 --> 00:18:25.300 Directly delivered by me 00:18:25.300 --> 00:18:27.300 and they can't be intimidated. 00:18:27.300 --> 00:18:28.300 Or perhaps they can 00:18:28.300 --> 00:18:30.300 because for a long time these people, 00:18:30.300 --> 00:18:33.300 the people I call the traditional enemies of the truth, 00:18:33.300 --> 00:18:36.370 they indulged two years ago 00:18:36.370 --> 00:18:38.370 in a stone-throwing campaign. 00:18:38.370 --> 00:18:40.370 They started smashing the windows of every big bookstore 00:18:40.370 --> 00:18:42.370 that still stocked my books 00:18:42.370 --> 00:18:45.370 in an attempt to persuade the bookstore managers 00:18:45.370 --> 00:18:46.370 through their insurance companies, 00:18:46.370 --> 00:18:47.370 through the back door, 00:18:47.370 --> 00:18:49.820 not to sell my books. 00:18:49.820 --> 00:18:51.820 And it's an interesting spectacle this because 00:18:51.820 --> 00:18:52.820 I look on this, 00:18:52.820 --> 00:18:53.820 I don't mind. 00:18:53.820 --> 00:18:54.820 I'm not in it for the money. 00:18:54.820 --> 00:18:56.820 Unlike the traditional enemy as I call them, 00:18:56.820 --> 00:18:58.820 I'm not in anything for the money. 00:18:58.820 --> 00:18:59.940 My poor wife, 00:18:59.940 --> 00:19:01.940 she's sometimes frantic with fear 00:19:01.940 --> 00:19:02.940 as to what's going to happen next week 00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:04.940 or the week after that. 00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:06.940 In this small confidential circle, 00:19:06.940 --> 00:19:07.940 ladies and gentlemen, 00:19:07.940 --> 00:19:09.940 I can mention the fact that a week ago 00:19:09.940 --> 00:19:11.940 I won a colossal libel action 00:19:11.940 --> 00:19:15.490 against one of England's biggest newspapers. 00:19:15.490 --> 00:19:16.490 Purely by chance, 00:19:16.490 --> 00:19:18.490 they libeled me on July the 30th. 00:19:18.490 --> 00:19:20.490 They published something really stupid about me 00:19:20.490 --> 00:19:21.490 that was so stupid 00:19:21.490 --> 00:19:24.490 that there was no feasible defense. 00:19:24.490 --> 00:19:27.490 They took a document that I had published in 1982, 00:19:27.490 --> 00:19:29.620 a document in which Adolf Hitler, 00:19:29.620 --> 00:19:31.620 years ago, 00:19:31.620 --> 00:19:32.620 70 years ago, 00:19:32.620 --> 00:19:34.620 with a Bavarian financier, 00:19:34.620 --> 00:19:36.620 back in 1922, 00:19:36.620 --> 00:19:38.620 Hitler talking to the Bavarian financier 00:19:38.620 --> 00:19:40.620 in the Hotel Feuillard in Munich, 00:19:40.620 --> 00:19:42.620 and Hitler saying to this financier, 00:19:42.620 --> 00:19:44.620 if I ever come to power, 00:19:44.620 --> 00:19:45.620 which he did, of course, 00:19:45.620 --> 00:19:46.620 15 years later, 00:19:46.620 --> 00:19:47.620 if I ever come to power, 00:19:47.620 --> 00:19:50.620 then I am going to settle scores with the Jews. 00:19:50.620 --> 00:19:51.620 Then, he said, 00:19:51.620 --> 00:19:53.620 I've spent all my life fighting the Jews, 00:19:53.620 --> 00:19:55.740 not as a race, but as a religion. 00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:56.740 If I come to power, 00:19:56.740 --> 00:19:57.740 then there's going to be a solution 00:19:57.740 --> 00:19:59.350 of the Jewish problem. 00:19:59.350 --> 00:20:01.350 And I found the actual shorthand record 00:20:01.350 --> 00:20:03.350 taken by this financier's secretary 00:20:03.350 --> 00:20:05.350 of the conversation between these two men 00:20:05.350 --> 00:20:06.350 back in 1922, 00:20:06.350 --> 00:20:07.350 when both of them, 00:20:07.350 --> 00:20:08.350 the financier and Adolf Hitler, 00:20:08.350 --> 00:20:09.350 were hardly heard of. 00:20:09.350 --> 00:20:10.350 And I published this in 1982 00:20:10.350 --> 00:20:12.350 in a journal I published called Focal Point. 00:20:12.350 --> 00:20:14.420 And the stupid newspaper, 00:20:14.420 --> 00:20:15.420 on July the 30th this year, 00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:16.420 published that document 00:20:16.420 --> 00:20:18.420 with a small mistake. 00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:20.420 They thought it was I who said these words. 00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:23.420 I spent all my life fighting the Jews. 00:20:23.420 --> 00:20:24.420 When I come to power, 00:20:24.420 --> 00:20:25.420 there's going to be a solution 00:20:25.420 --> 00:20:26.420 of the Jewish problem. 00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:27.420 No, there's no defense. 00:20:28.420 --> 00:20:30.420 Under the libel laws of England, 00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:32.420 they had no defense whatsoever, 00:20:32.420 --> 00:20:33.420 and so I was able, 00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:34.420 I served the writ on them, 00:20:34.420 --> 00:20:36.420 I took them to the court, 00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:37.420 and we settled the whole matter 00:20:37.420 --> 00:20:39.420 within the last two months. 00:20:39.420 --> 00:20:40.420 A very enjoyable experience. 00:20:40.420 --> 00:20:42.420 It shows that you can fight the Jews, 00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:43.420 but you can't fight back. 00:20:43.420 --> 00:20:45.420 And I am fighting back now. 00:20:45.420 --> 00:20:46.640 Because I'm tired of taking... 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:47.640 As I told the newspaper... 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:48.640 Thank you. 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:51.700 As I told the newspaper... 00:20:51.700 --> 00:20:53.700 I told the newspaper lawyers 00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:54.700 as we went into court, 00:20:54.700 --> 00:20:55.700 I said, 00:20:55.700 --> 00:20:56.700 for 30 years I've had to put up 00:20:56.700 --> 00:20:58.700 gritting my teeth with you newspapers 00:20:58.700 --> 00:21:00.700 saying slimy things about me 00:21:00.700 --> 00:21:01.700 in a roundabout way 00:21:01.700 --> 00:21:02.700 so that you could just get off the hook 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:03.700 if I sued you, 00:21:03.700 --> 00:21:04.700 and I've been waiting 00:21:04.700 --> 00:21:06.700 for the open and shut case 00:21:06.700 --> 00:21:07.700 which would give me the chance 00:21:07.700 --> 00:21:08.700 to do what I'm doing today. 00:21:08.700 --> 00:21:10.700 And that's when that day came. 00:21:10.700 --> 00:21:11.700 And they hated me for it, 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:12.700 but they had to write out the check, 00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:13.700 and it came a week ago. 00:21:13.700 --> 00:21:14.700 And until then, 00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:15.700 it's been touch and go. 00:21:15.700 --> 00:21:16.700 But I'm going to be invulnerable now 00:21:16.700 --> 00:21:17.700 for the next year or two 00:21:17.700 --> 00:21:20.700 so I can resume saying 00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:22.700 what I've always wanted to say. 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:25.180 As Rick told you, 00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:28.180 I am a professional historian. 00:21:28.180 --> 00:21:29.180 That is to say, 00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:30.180 I'm not an academic historian. 00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:31.180 I don't spend my life 00:21:31.180 --> 00:21:32.180 sitting behind a desk 00:21:32.180 --> 00:21:34.180 in a university or a school 00:21:34.180 --> 00:21:36.180 with no time to go out into the field 00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:37.180 doing research. 00:21:37.180 --> 00:21:40.180 I write my books from the archives. 00:21:40.180 --> 00:21:41.590 When I wrote my very first book, 00:21:41.590 --> 00:21:43.590 The Destruction of Dresden, 00:21:43.590 --> 00:21:44.590 I took track 00:21:44.590 --> 00:21:45.590 and I struggled to find 00:21:45.590 --> 00:21:46.590 300 Allied airmen 00:21:46.590 --> 00:21:47.590 who took part 00:21:47.590 --> 00:21:48.590 in that catastrophic air raid 00:21:48.590 --> 00:21:49.590 on Dresden in 1945, 00:21:49.590 --> 00:21:51.850 and 100 survivors 00:21:51.850 --> 00:21:52.850 who had been on the ground 00:21:52.850 --> 00:21:53.850 at the receiving end 00:21:53.850 --> 00:21:54.850 of that appalling air raid 00:21:54.850 --> 00:21:56.850 which killed over 100,000 people 00:21:56.850 --> 00:21:57.850 in 20 minutes. 00:21:57.850 --> 00:21:58.850 We did that. 00:21:58.850 --> 00:21:59.850 I never knew about that. 00:21:59.850 --> 00:22:01.850 When I was a steelworker in Germany, 00:22:01.850 --> 00:22:03.850 working in the steelworks in 1960, 00:22:03.850 --> 00:22:04.850 one of my fellow steelworkers 00:22:04.850 --> 00:22:05.850 told me what happened 00:22:05.850 --> 00:22:06.850 that night in Dresden. 00:22:06.850 --> 00:22:07.850 I was ashamed 00:22:07.850 --> 00:22:09.850 because I, as an Englishman, 00:22:09.850 --> 00:22:10.850 had never been told that. 00:22:10.850 --> 00:22:11.940 And I thought, 00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:13.940 if I've never been told that, 00:22:13.940 --> 00:22:14.940 then probably 50 million 00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:15.940 other English people 00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:16.940 had never been told that, too. 00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:19.940 And I decided to go and research that. 00:22:19.940 --> 00:22:20.940 First I was going to write 00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:21.940 just a newspaper article. 00:22:21.940 --> 00:22:22.940 Then I realized 00:22:22.940 --> 00:22:23.940 it was far bigger than that. 00:22:23.940 --> 00:22:25.940 It was a major story. 00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:27.070 When that book was published 00:22:27.070 --> 00:22:29.070 by the little respectable 00:22:29.070 --> 00:22:30.070 English publishing house 00:22:30.070 --> 00:22:32.070 back in 1963, 00:22:32.070 --> 00:22:33.070 and it was serialized 00:22:33.070 --> 00:22:35.070 by England's Sunday Telegraph newspaper, 00:22:35.070 --> 00:22:37.070 which really gave it the push 00:22:37.070 --> 00:22:39.070 to make sure the book was a success, 00:22:39.070 --> 00:22:41.070 the book became a bestseller. 00:22:41.070 --> 00:22:42.260 And suddenly, 00:22:42.260 --> 00:22:43.260 those of you young people 00:22:43.260 --> 00:22:44.260 sitting in the audience here 00:22:44.260 --> 00:22:45.260 who still don't know 00:22:45.260 --> 00:22:46.260 what you're going to do 00:22:46.260 --> 00:22:47.260 when you grow up, 00:22:47.260 --> 00:22:48.260 take heart from me 00:22:48.260 --> 00:22:49.260 from the fact that at that time 00:22:49.260 --> 00:22:50.260 I was 23 years old 00:22:50.260 --> 00:22:51.260 and I had no idea 00:22:51.260 --> 00:22:53.260 what I was going to do with my life. 00:22:53.260 --> 00:22:55.420 I didn't know what I was going to do, 00:22:55.420 --> 00:22:56.420 but that book became a bestseller, 00:22:56.420 --> 00:22:59.420 and so I decided to become a writer. 00:22:59.420 --> 00:23:01.580 I decided to become a historian, 00:23:01.580 --> 00:23:04.030 and that's what I did 00:23:04.030 --> 00:23:05.030 for the next few years. 00:23:05.030 --> 00:23:06.030 I've done it from then until now, 00:23:06.030 --> 00:23:07.030 in fact. 00:23:07.030 --> 00:23:08.030 For the first few years, 00:23:08.030 --> 00:23:09.030 it was a pretty routine matter, 00:23:09.030 --> 00:23:10.030 humdrum. 00:23:10.030 --> 00:23:11.030 I wrote a book 00:23:11.030 --> 00:23:12.030 and I had a daughter, 00:23:12.030 --> 00:23:13.030 and I wrote another book 00:23:13.030 --> 00:23:14.030 and I had another daughter, 00:23:14.030 --> 00:23:15.030 and I wrote a third book 00:23:15.030 --> 00:23:16.030 and I had a third daughter, 00:23:16.030 --> 00:23:17.030 and I wrote a fourth book 00:23:17.030 --> 00:23:18.030 and I had a fourth daughter. 00:23:18.030 --> 00:23:20.030 And then for 30 years, 00:23:20.030 --> 00:23:21.030 I ran out of steam 00:23:21.030 --> 00:23:22.030 and I just wrote books. 00:23:23.320 --> 00:23:24.320 Until about a year ago. 00:23:24.320 --> 00:23:26.320 I've got a two-year-old daughter now, 00:23:26.320 --> 00:23:28.320 so I've got five daughters. 00:23:28.320 --> 00:23:31.320 It's a history of misfortune, 00:23:31.320 --> 00:23:32.320 I suppose. 00:23:32.320 --> 00:23:35.450 But the books have continued to come. 00:23:35.450 --> 00:23:36.450 I've written 30 books 00:23:36.450 --> 00:23:37.450 since then and now. 00:23:37.450 --> 00:23:38.450 Most of them have vanished. 00:23:38.450 --> 00:23:39.450 They're not available on the table now. 00:23:39.450 --> 00:23:40.450 In fact, this evening, 00:23:40.450 --> 00:23:42.450 I've sold the final remaining copies 00:23:42.450 --> 00:23:43.450 of two or three of my titles. 00:23:43.450 --> 00:23:44.450 I don't know 00:23:44.450 --> 00:23:45.450 if you've found them. 00:23:45.450 --> 00:23:46.450 Unfortunately, 00:23:46.450 --> 00:23:48.450 among the effects of the man 00:23:48.450 --> 00:23:49.450 who I commissioned 00:23:49.450 --> 00:23:50.450 to set up a bookstore for me 00:23:50.450 --> 00:23:51.450 here in South Carolina 00:23:51.450 --> 00:23:52.450 18 months ago, 00:23:52.450 --> 00:23:54.450 and he was doing a fine job 00:23:54.450 --> 00:23:55.450 until he was shot in his sleep 00:23:55.450 --> 00:23:56.450 in the back of his head, 00:23:56.450 --> 00:23:57.450 execution style, 00:23:57.450 --> 00:23:58.450 on February the 23rd this year, 00:23:58.450 --> 00:24:00.450 down in Greer in South Carolina. 00:24:00.450 --> 00:24:01.450 We still don't know 00:24:01.450 --> 00:24:02.450 what's behind that. 00:24:02.450 --> 00:24:03.450 And I had the sad duty 00:24:03.450 --> 00:24:04.450 on my drive up here 00:24:04.450 --> 00:24:05.450 in the last five or six days 00:24:05.450 --> 00:24:07.450 of picking up the remaining stock 00:24:07.450 --> 00:24:08.450 of books from him 00:24:08.450 --> 00:24:11.450 and loading them aboard the car. 00:24:11.450 --> 00:24:13.800 30 books. 00:24:13.800 --> 00:24:14.800 What is it that distinguishes 00:24:14.800 --> 00:24:16.800 my books from all the rest? 00:24:16.800 --> 00:24:18.800 Why do the other historians 00:24:18.800 --> 00:24:19.800 get mad as hell 00:24:19.800 --> 00:24:20.800 when they hear my name? 00:24:20.800 --> 00:24:22.800 Why is it that they cheer 00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:23.800 when I get thrown into prison 00:24:23.800 --> 00:24:24.800 as I was for two weeks 00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:26.800 last February, last year? 00:24:26.800 --> 00:24:27.800 No court hearing, 00:24:27.800 --> 00:24:28.800 no trial, 00:24:28.800 --> 00:24:29.800 just picked up from my front door 00:24:29.800 --> 00:24:31.800 by Scotland Yard police officers, 00:24:31.800 --> 00:24:32.800 very apologetic, 00:24:32.800 --> 00:24:33.800 saying, 00:24:33.800 --> 00:24:34.800 we're very sorry, Mr. Irving, 00:24:34.800 --> 00:24:35.800 we've got a high court judge's order 00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:36.800 that we've got to take you 00:24:36.800 --> 00:24:37.800 straight to Pentonville Prison 00:24:37.800 --> 00:24:39.570 for the next three months. 00:24:39.570 --> 00:24:41.570 And then I get the private papers 00:24:41.570 --> 00:24:43.570 that the Australian prime minister 00:24:43.570 --> 00:24:44.570 delivered to me 00:24:44.570 --> 00:24:45.570 a year later 00:24:45.570 --> 00:24:46.570 in the course of my worldwide 00:24:46.570 --> 00:24:48.570 campaign for the truth. 00:24:48.570 --> 00:24:49.570 And I find that these people 00:24:49.570 --> 00:24:50.570 down in Australia 00:24:50.570 --> 00:24:51.570 had actually applied 00:24:51.570 --> 00:24:52.570 to the judge for me 00:24:52.570 --> 00:24:53.570 to be sent to prison 00:24:53.570 --> 00:24:54.570 for two years 00:24:54.570 --> 00:24:55.860 for contempt of court, 00:24:55.860 --> 00:24:56.890 to silence me. 00:24:56.890 --> 00:24:57.890 And that's what it's all about. 00:24:57.890 --> 00:24:58.890 Then when I managed 00:24:58.890 --> 00:25:00.890 to get freed from prison 00:25:00.890 --> 00:25:01.890 back in February last year, 00:25:01.890 --> 00:25:02.890 my solicitor round-eyed 00:25:02.890 --> 00:25:03.890 with astonishment 00:25:03.890 --> 00:25:04.890 saying, 00:25:04.890 --> 00:25:05.890 Mr. Irving, 00:25:05.890 --> 00:25:06.890 what on earth is going on? 00:25:06.890 --> 00:25:07.890 And even more astonished 00:25:07.890 --> 00:25:08.890 when he hears the people 00:25:08.890 --> 00:25:09.890 on the other side 00:25:09.890 --> 00:25:10.890 saying we applied 00:25:10.890 --> 00:25:11.890 for Mr. Irving's passport 00:25:11.890 --> 00:25:12.890 to be impounded. 00:25:12.890 --> 00:25:13.890 That's what it's all about. 00:25:13.890 --> 00:25:14.890 They're trying 00:25:14.890 --> 00:25:15.890 to gag me 00:25:15.890 --> 00:25:16.890 and fetter me 00:25:16.890 --> 00:25:17.890 and chain me 00:25:17.890 --> 00:25:18.890 to one place 00:25:18.890 --> 00:25:19.890 because I go around 00:25:19.890 --> 00:25:20.890 the world 00:25:20.890 --> 00:25:21.890 speaking my mind 00:25:21.890 --> 00:25:22.890 and telling audiences 00:25:22.890 --> 00:25:23.890 like yourselves 00:25:23.890 --> 00:25:24.890 what I found 00:25:24.890 --> 00:25:26.400 in the archives. 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:27.400 And it was quite 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:28.400 a wide world originally. 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:29.400 I used to go around 00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:30.400 the world once every year 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:31.400 the same as I now go 00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:32.400 around the United States 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:33.400 speaking to audiences 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:34.400 in South Africa 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:35.400 and Australia 00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:36.400 and New Zealand 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.400 and Canada, 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:38.400 everywhere. 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:39.400 Not one of those countries 00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:40.400 is now available 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:41.460 to let me in. 00:25:41.460 --> 00:25:42.460 I was deported 00:25:42.460 --> 00:25:43.460 in handcuffs 00:25:43.460 --> 00:25:44.460 from Canada 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:45.460 in November 1992 00:25:45.460 --> 00:25:46.460 at the instructions 00:25:46.460 --> 00:25:47.460 and at the request 00:25:47.460 --> 00:25:48.460 of the people 00:25:48.460 --> 00:25:49.460 that I call 00:25:49.460 --> 00:25:50.780 the traditional enemy 00:25:50.780 --> 00:25:51.780 of the truth. 00:25:51.780 --> 00:25:52.780 They had the money, 00:25:52.780 --> 00:25:53.780 they had the clout, 00:25:53.780 --> 00:25:54.780 they had the press behind them 00:25:54.780 --> 00:25:55.780 and I fought them 00:25:55.780 --> 00:25:56.780 for three weeks 00:25:56.780 --> 00:25:57.780 in the Canadian courts 00:25:57.780 --> 00:25:58.780 beginning in Vancouver 00:25:58.780 --> 00:25:59.780 and ending up 00:25:59.780 --> 00:26:00.780 in the courts in Ontario 00:26:00.780 --> 00:26:01.780 until finally 00:26:01.780 --> 00:26:02.780 to our astonishment 00:26:02.780 --> 00:26:03.780 and to the astonishment 00:26:03.780 --> 00:26:04.780 actually at the press, 00:26:04.780 --> 00:26:05.780 I was all deported 00:26:05.780 --> 00:26:06.780 in handcuffs 00:26:06.780 --> 00:26:07.780 and put onto a plane 00:26:07.780 --> 00:26:09.330 in handcuffs 00:26:09.330 --> 00:26:10.330 at Toronto airport 00:26:10.330 --> 00:26:11.330 and flown back to Britain. 00:26:11.330 --> 00:26:12.330 And since then 00:26:12.330 --> 00:26:13.330 it's been a running battle 00:26:13.330 --> 00:26:14.330 but it's been a very 00:26:14.330 --> 00:26:15.330 interesting battle 00:26:15.330 --> 00:26:16.330 and I've got 3,000 people 00:26:16.330 --> 00:26:17.330 around the world 00:26:17.330 --> 00:26:18.330 who contribute 00:26:18.330 --> 00:26:19.330 to my campaign 00:26:19.330 --> 00:26:20.330 to enable me 00:26:20.330 --> 00:26:21.680 to fight these actions 00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:22.680 and if you fight actions 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:23.680 on this scale 00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:24.680 you find extraordinary things. 00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:25.680 In the United States 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:26.680 you've got the Freedom 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:27.680 of Information Act. 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:28.680 In Canada they've got 00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:29.680 the Access to Information Act. 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:30.680 If you fight a liable action 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:31.680 in Australia 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:32.680 you can force 00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:33.680 the other side 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:34.680 suddenly by an action 00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:35.680 called discovery 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:36.680 to show you 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:37.680 all their cards 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.680 as though it's game. 00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:39.680 They are ordered 00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:40.680 to show you 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:41.680 all the papers 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:42.680 they've collected against you 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:43.680 and then you find 00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:45.060 extraordinary things. 00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:46.060 Historians, 00:26:46.060 --> 00:26:47.060 professors, 00:26:47.060 --> 00:26:48.060 who in England 00:26:48.060 --> 00:26:49.060 have written me 00:26:49.060 --> 00:26:50.060 oily, ingratiating letters 00:26:50.060 --> 00:26:51.060 saying, 00:26:51.060 --> 00:26:52.060 Irving, 00:26:52.060 --> 00:26:53.060 what wonderful books 00:26:53.060 --> 00:26:54.060 you write. 00:26:54.060 --> 00:26:55.060 I would be so grateful 00:26:55.060 --> 00:26:56.060 if you could give me 00:26:56.060 --> 00:26:57.060 a clue about where 00:26:57.060 --> 00:26:58.060 I can find this 00:26:58.060 --> 00:26:59.060 or can you let me 00:26:59.060 --> 00:27:00.060 have a copy of that. 00:27:00.060 --> 00:27:01.060 These same people 00:27:01.060 --> 00:27:03.120 writing and handwriting 00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:04.120 to the director 00:27:04.120 --> 00:27:05.120 of an organization 00:27:05.120 --> 00:27:06.120 in England 00:27:06.120 --> 00:27:07.120 who I won't mention, 00:27:07.120 --> 00:27:08.120 writing to the director 00:27:08.120 --> 00:27:09.120 of this organization 00:27:09.120 --> 00:27:10.120 in England 00:27:10.120 --> 00:27:11.120 saying, 00:27:11.120 --> 00:27:12.380 can't you possibly 00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:13.380 take some steps 00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:14.500 to ensure 00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:15.500 that the next time 00:27:15.500 --> 00:27:16.500 Irving goes to Germany 00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:17.500 he's thrown in prison 00:27:17.500 --> 00:27:18.500 for a while. 00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:19.500 And all these letters 00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:20.500 turning up 00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:21.500 in the files 00:27:21.500 --> 00:27:22.500 of the Canadian government 00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:23.500 which is where 00:27:23.500 --> 00:27:24.500 I found them. 00:27:24.500 --> 00:27:25.730 And these people 00:27:25.730 --> 00:27:26.730 in England 00:27:26.730 --> 00:27:27.730 still don't realize 00:27:27.730 --> 00:27:28.730 I've got photocopies 00:27:28.730 --> 00:27:29.730 of these letters. 00:27:29.730 --> 00:27:30.730 I'm going to be using 00:27:30.730 --> 00:27:31.730 them later on 00:27:31.730 --> 00:27:32.730 in yet another publication. 00:27:32.730 --> 00:27:33.730 It's a very, 00:27:33.730 --> 00:27:34.730 they're not going 00:27:34.730 --> 00:27:35.820 to have an enjoyable time 00:27:35.820 --> 00:27:36.820 these people. 00:27:36.820 --> 00:27:37.820 I started two operations 00:27:37.820 --> 00:27:38.820 ladies and gentlemen. 00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:40.180 One of them is called 00:27:40.180 --> 00:27:41.180 Operation Body Line 00:27:41.180 --> 00:27:42.180 and the other one 00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:43.180 is called 00:27:43.180 --> 00:27:44.180 Operation Ill Wind 00:27:44.180 --> 00:27:45.180 as in 00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:46.180 I'm going to 00:27:46.180 --> 00:27:47.180 take you 00:27:47.180 --> 00:27:48.180 as in 00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:49.180 it is an ill wind 00:27:49.180 --> 00:27:50.180 that blows nobody 00:27:50.180 --> 00:27:51.180 any good. 00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:52.180 These people 00:27:52.180 --> 00:27:53.180 are going to find 00:27:53.180 --> 00:27:54.180 that I'm the one 00:27:54.180 --> 00:27:55.180 who's going to benefit 00:27:55.180 --> 00:27:56.180 from this ill wind 00:27:56.180 --> 00:27:57.180 over the next 12 months 00:27:57.180 --> 00:27:58.400 because I'm a fighter 00:27:58.400 --> 00:27:59.400 and I fight back. 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:00.400 When I was banned 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:01.400 from Australia 00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:02.400 two years ago 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:03.400 as it turned out 00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:04.400 the Australian Prime Minister 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:05.400 Paul Keating 00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:06.400 had personally 00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:07.400 issued the instruction 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:08.400 that I was not 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:09.400 to be allowed in again. 00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:10.400 We know this 00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:11.400 because the judge 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:12.400 ordered that the Prime Minister's 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:13.400 file should be opened 00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:14.400 and he was the one 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:15.400 who took the decision 00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:16.400 and it turned out 00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:17.400 he was the traditional 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:18.400 enemy of the truth 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:19.430 not to let me in. 00:28:19.430 --> 00:28:20.430 They were the ones 00:28:20.430 --> 00:28:21.430 who were paying 00:28:21.430 --> 00:28:22.430 the Australian Labour Party 00:28:22.430 --> 00:28:23.430 colossal sums of money 00:28:23.430 --> 00:28:24.430 and so he had to dance 00:28:24.430 --> 00:28:25.430 to their tune 00:28:25.430 --> 00:28:26.430 and he was the one 00:28:26.430 --> 00:28:27.430 who ordered 00:28:27.430 --> 00:28:28.430 I shouldn't be allowed in 00:28:28.430 --> 00:28:30.200 and when I wasn't allowed in 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:31.200 to Australia 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:32.200 all the Australian media 00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:33.200 to my astonishment 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:34.200 came down on my side. 00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:35.200 There wasn't an 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:36.200 Australian newspaper 00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:37.200 which didn't stand up 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:38.200 for me 00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:39.200 and for freedom of speech. 00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:40.200 They would say 00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:41.200 all the usual things 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:42.200 like why we find 00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:43.200 Mr Irving's views 00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:44.200 detestable and repugnant. 00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:45.200 They all would say 00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:46.200 that kind of thing 00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:47.200 because 00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:48.200 our journalists 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:49.200 you can't say 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:50.200 they're brave. 00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:51.200 Journalists are not 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:53.060 brave people. 00:28:53.060 --> 00:28:54.060 I have no 00:28:54.060 --> 00:28:55.060 not the slightest sympathy 00:28:55.060 --> 00:28:56.060 for journalists 00:28:56.060 --> 00:28:57.060 anywhere in the world 00:28:57.060 --> 00:28:58.060 because they are 00:28:58.060 --> 00:28:59.060 morally repugnant to me. 00:28:59.060 --> 00:29:00.060 They have 00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:01.060 they're what the Germans 00:29:01.060 --> 00:29:02.060 call 00:29:02.060 --> 00:29:03.060 the whole bunch of them. 00:29:03.060 --> 00:29:04.060 They are all dependent 00:29:04.060 --> 00:29:05.060 on their editors 00:29:05.060 --> 00:29:06.060 say so for their jobs 00:29:06.060 --> 00:29:07.060 and they write 00:29:07.060 --> 00:29:08.060 they are on autopilot 00:29:08.060 --> 00:29:09.060 they know what they've got 00:29:09.060 --> 00:29:10.060 they're not censored 00:29:10.060 --> 00:29:11.060 by anyone 00:29:11.060 --> 00:29:12.060 but they know instinctively 00:29:12.060 --> 00:29:13.060 what they've got to write 00:29:13.060 --> 00:29:14.060 and so they all say 00:29:14.060 --> 00:29:15.060 why we don't hold 00:29:15.060 --> 00:29:16.060 anything of Mr Irving's 00:29:16.060 --> 00:29:17.060 repugnant views 00:29:17.060 --> 00:29:18.060 and his disgusting 00:29:18.060 --> 00:29:19.060 opinions 00:29:19.060 --> 00:29:20.060 we do stand up 00:29:20.060 --> 00:29:21.060 for his right to express 00:29:21.060 --> 00:29:22.060 we do stand up 00:29:22.060 --> 00:29:23.350 for freedom of speech. 00:29:23.350 --> 00:29:24.350 And the Australians 00:29:24.350 --> 00:29:25.350 would telephone me 00:29:25.350 --> 00:29:26.350 and I would do 00:29:26.350 --> 00:29:27.350 live television programs 00:29:27.350 --> 00:29:28.350 to Australia 00:29:28.350 --> 00:29:29.350 from my house in England 00:29:29.350 --> 00:29:30.350 and the Australian journalist 00:29:30.350 --> 00:29:31.350 would say 00:29:31.350 --> 00:29:32.350 Mr Irving 00:29:32.350 --> 00:29:33.350 why is it then 00:29:33.350 --> 00:29:34.350 that you're keeping 00:29:34.350 --> 00:29:35.350 on this fight? 00:29:35.350 --> 00:29:36.350 Why is it 00:29:36.350 --> 00:29:37.350 that your fight 00:29:37.350 --> 00:29:38.350 carry on the battle 00:29:38.350 --> 00:29:39.350 like this? 00:29:39.350 --> 00:29:40.350 And I would say 00:29:40.350 --> 00:29:41.350 I've been underestimated 00:29:41.350 --> 00:29:42.350 you've underestimated 00:29:42.350 --> 00:29:43.350 the English. 00:29:43.350 --> 00:29:44.350 The English have 00:29:44.350 --> 00:29:45.350 a reputation 00:29:45.350 --> 00:29:46.350 ladies and gentlemen 00:29:46.350 --> 00:29:47.350 for marching 00:29:47.350 --> 00:29:48.350 to the sound of gunfire. 00:29:48.350 --> 00:29:49.350 I'd stop marching 00:29:49.350 --> 00:29:50.350 but my enemies 00:29:50.350 --> 00:29:51.350 have not realized 00:29:51.350 --> 00:29:52.670 this yet. 00:29:52.670 --> 00:29:53.670 And so the battle 00:29:53.670 --> 00:29:55.020 goes on 00:29:55.020 --> 00:29:56.020 and I mentioned 00:29:56.020 --> 00:29:57.020 the fact that I would 00:29:57.020 --> 00:29:58.020 give these interviews 00:29:58.020 --> 00:29:59.020 from my home in England 00:29:59.020 --> 00:30:00.020 and I would broadcast 00:30:00.020 --> 00:30:01.020 live by satellite 00:30:01.020 --> 00:30:02.020 to the whole of the 00:30:02.020 --> 00:30:03.020 Australian continent 00:30:03.020 --> 00:30:04.020 this is the benefit 00:30:04.020 --> 00:30:05.020 of course 00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:06.020 if they didn't ban me 00:30:06.020 --> 00:30:07.020 from Australia 00:30:07.020 --> 00:30:08.020 I would be speaking 00:30:08.020 --> 00:30:09.020 to audiences 00:30:09.020 --> 00:30:10.020 of perhaps 20 or 30 people 00:30:10.020 --> 00:30:11.020 in the outback 00:30:11.020 --> 00:30:12.020 outside Shepparton 00:30:12.020 --> 00:30:13.020 or Melbourne 00:30:13.020 --> 00:30:14.020 or somewhere 00:30:14.020 --> 00:30:15.020 but as it is 00:30:15.020 --> 00:30:16.020 I'm speaking live 00:30:16.020 --> 00:30:17.020 coast to coast 00:30:17.020 --> 00:30:18.540 on prime time television 00:30:18.540 --> 00:30:19.540 several nights a week 00:30:19.540 --> 00:30:20.540 in my home 00:30:20.540 --> 00:30:21.540 and here's something 00:30:21.540 --> 00:30:22.540 for you Americans 00:30:22.540 --> 00:30:23.540 to think about 00:30:23.540 --> 00:30:24.540 and chew over. 00:30:24.540 --> 00:30:25.540 I was interviewed 00:30:25.540 --> 00:30:26.540 in my home 00:30:26.540 --> 00:30:27.540 in July 00:30:27.540 --> 00:30:28.540 two years ago 00:30:28.540 --> 00:30:29.540 by France's 00:30:29.540 --> 00:30:30.540 biggest newspaper 00:30:30.540 --> 00:30:31.540 and I gave an opinion 00:30:31.540 --> 00:30:32.540 to this journalist 00:30:32.540 --> 00:30:33.540 sitting in my study 00:30:33.540 --> 00:30:34.540 in London 00:30:34.540 --> 00:30:36.400 near the American Embassy 00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:37.400 and this journalist 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:38.400 reported my opinion 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:39.400 quite faithfully 00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:40.400 in Le Monde 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:41.400 the biggest French 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:43.780 serious newspaper 00:30:43.780 --> 00:30:45.780 and that journalist 00:30:45.780 --> 00:30:47.780 and that newspaper 00:30:47.780 --> 00:30:48.780 and I 00:30:48.780 --> 00:30:49.780 were subsequently 00:30:49.780 --> 00:30:50.780 fined last year 00:30:50.780 --> 00:30:51.780 in the French courts 00:30:51.780 --> 00:30:52.780 for having expressed 00:30:52.780 --> 00:30:53.780 this opinion 00:30:53.780 --> 00:30:55.000 I'll tell you later 00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:56.000 on what the opinion is 00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.130 but think about that 00:30:58.130 --> 00:30:59.130 when you sometimes 00:30:59.130 --> 00:31:00.130 complain about 00:31:00.130 --> 00:31:02.130 the restraints 00:31:02.130 --> 00:31:03.130 you live under 00:31:03.130 --> 00:31:04.130 in the United States 00:31:04.130 --> 00:31:05.130 of America 00:31:05.130 --> 00:31:06.130 take it from me 00:31:06.130 --> 00:31:07.130 as an outsider 00:31:07.130 --> 00:31:08.130 you have something here 00:31:08.130 --> 00:31:09.130 that is wonderful 00:31:09.130 --> 00:31:10.450 and that's the 00:31:10.450 --> 00:31:11.450 First Amendment 00:31:11.450 --> 00:31:12.450 the freedom of speech 00:31:12.450 --> 00:31:13.450 which is constitutionally 00:31:13.450 --> 00:31:14.450 guaranteed to you 00:31:14.450 --> 00:31:15.450 United States citizens 00:31:15.450 --> 00:31:16.450 is something 00:31:16.450 --> 00:31:17.450 that you're so accustomed 00:31:17.450 --> 00:31:18.450 to 00:31:18.450 --> 00:31:19.450 you take it for granted 00:31:19.450 --> 00:31:20.450 don't take it for granted 00:31:20.450 --> 00:31:21.450 fight to protect it 00:31:21.450 --> 00:31:22.450 fight to stand up 00:31:22.450 --> 00:31:23.450 to prevent 00:31:23.450 --> 00:31:24.450 anybody 00:31:24.450 --> 00:31:25.450 from making 00:31:25.450 --> 00:31:26.450 any inroads 00:31:26.450 --> 00:31:27.450 against that 00:31:27.450 --> 00:31:28.450 First Amendment 00:31:28.450 --> 00:31:29.450 which guarantees 00:31:29.450 --> 00:31:30.450 your freedom of speech 00:31:30.450 --> 00:31:31.450 because otherwise 00:31:31.450 --> 00:31:32.450 situations will develop 00:31:32.450 --> 00:31:33.450 like the one 00:31:33.450 --> 00:31:34.450 I'm about to describe 00:31:34.450 --> 00:31:35.450 in France 00:31:35.450 --> 00:31:36.450 where I express 00:31:36.450 --> 00:31:37.450 an opinion 00:31:37.450 --> 00:31:38.450 in the safety 00:31:38.450 --> 00:31:39.450 and security 00:31:39.450 --> 00:31:40.450 and sanctuary 00:31:40.450 --> 00:31:41.510 of my own home 00:31:41.510 --> 00:31:42.510 in London 00:31:42.510 --> 00:31:43.510 and I find myself 00:31:43.510 --> 00:31:44.510 receiving an indictment 00:31:44.510 --> 00:31:45.700 from a Paris court 00:31:45.700 --> 00:31:46.700 accusing me 00:31:46.700 --> 00:31:47.700 of having made 00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:48.700 a certain statement 00:31:48.700 --> 00:31:49.700 in my own home 00:31:49.700 --> 00:31:50.700 in England 00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:52.020 for years 00:31:52.020 --> 00:31:53.020 and then being fined 00:31:53.020 --> 00:31:54.020 in absentia 00:31:54.020 --> 00:31:55.020 by the French court 00:31:55.020 --> 00:31:56.020 for this opinion 00:31:56.020 --> 00:31:57.020 I have expressed 00:31:57.020 --> 00:31:58.020 which has been published 00:31:58.020 --> 00:31:59.020 by one of the leading newspapers 00:31:59.020 --> 00:32:00.470 but it gets worse 00:32:00.470 --> 00:32:01.470 because the indictment 00:32:01.470 --> 00:32:02.470 that is served on me 00:32:02.470 --> 00:32:03.570 is served on me 00:32:03.570 --> 00:32:04.570 under a new law 00:32:04.570 --> 00:32:05.570 passed in France 00:32:05.570 --> 00:32:07.570 a law for the amendment 00:32:07.570 --> 00:32:08.570 of the freedom of speech 00:32:08.570 --> 00:32:09.570 think of those words 00:32:09.570 --> 00:32:12.140 a law for the amendment 00:32:12.140 --> 00:32:13.140 of the freedom of speech 00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:14.140 in France 00:32:14.140 --> 00:32:16.260 and under that law 00:32:16.260 --> 00:32:17.260 it becomes 00:32:17.260 --> 00:32:18.260 a criminal offense 00:32:18.260 --> 00:32:19.260 for anybody 00:32:19.260 --> 00:32:21.330 to challenge 00:32:21.330 --> 00:32:22.330 the French word 00:32:22.330 --> 00:32:23.330 is contestation 00:32:23.330 --> 00:32:24.330 to challenge 00:32:24.330 --> 00:32:25.330 or ask questions 00:32:25.330 --> 00:32:26.330 about crimes 00:32:26.330 --> 00:32:27.330 against humanity 00:32:27.330 --> 00:32:28.330 as defined 00:32:28.330 --> 00:32:29.330 by the Nuremberg 00:32:29.330 --> 00:32:30.330 tribunal 00:32:30.330 --> 00:32:31.330 of 1945 00:32:31.330 --> 00:32:32.330 now we all know 00:32:32.330 --> 00:32:33.580 what tribunal 00:32:33.580 --> 00:32:34.580 that was 00:32:34.580 --> 00:32:35.580 that was the victors 00:32:35.580 --> 00:32:36.580 tribunal 00:32:36.580 --> 00:32:37.580 against the Nazis 00:32:37.580 --> 00:32:38.580 who were put on trial 00:32:38.580 --> 00:32:39.580 and eventually hanged 00:32:39.580 --> 00:32:40.580 they were railroaded 00:32:40.580 --> 00:32:41.580 to the gallows 00:32:41.580 --> 00:32:43.160 I think it was 00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:44.160 Lord Van Sittard 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:45.160 who said 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:46.160 the only question 00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:47.160 which is of interest 00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:48.160 now is going to be 00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:49.160 the place of the gallows 00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:50.160 and the length 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:51.160 of the rope 00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:52.160 that was roughly 00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:53.160 the mood of justice 00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:54.380 which prevailed 00:32:54.380 --> 00:32:55.380 in the 19th century 00:32:55.380 --> 00:32:56.380 in the 19th century 00:32:56.380 --> 00:32:57.380 in the 19th century 00:32:57.380 --> 00:32:58.380 the Germans didn't expect 00:32:58.380 --> 00:32:59.380 justice in that kind 00:32:59.380 --> 00:33:00.380 of climate 00:33:00.380 --> 00:33:01.380 the Germans didn't expect it 00:33:01.380 --> 00:33:02.450 they knew they weren't 00:33:02.450 --> 00:33:03.450 going to get justice 00:33:03.450 --> 00:33:04.450 and they didn't get justice 00:33:04.450 --> 00:33:05.450 but one thing is quite plain 00:33:05.450 --> 00:33:06.450 that it should be possible 00:33:06.450 --> 00:33:07.450 for us now historians 00:33:07.450 --> 00:33:08.450 50 years after the event 00:33:08.450 --> 00:33:09.450 to reexamine those events 00:33:09.450 --> 00:33:10.450 to reexamine the indictments 00:33:10.450 --> 00:33:11.450 as served up at Nuremberg 00:33:11.450 --> 00:33:12.450 the crimes that the Germans 00:33:12.450 --> 00:33:13.450 were accused of 00:33:13.450 --> 00:33:14.450 and say 00:33:14.450 --> 00:33:15.450 was this a crime 00:33:15.450 --> 00:33:16.770 did this happen like that 00:33:16.770 --> 00:33:17.770 did 00:33:17.770 --> 00:33:18.770 in France for example 00:33:18.770 --> 00:33:19.770 it is a criminal offense 00:33:19.770 --> 00:33:20.770 to give you one example 00:33:20.770 --> 00:33:21.900 it is a criminal offense 00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:22.900 to go to France 00:33:22.900 --> 00:33:23.900 and say 00:33:23.900 --> 00:33:24.900 I don't think 00:33:24.900 --> 00:33:25.900 it was the 00:33:25.900 --> 00:33:26.900 I don't think 00:33:26.900 --> 00:33:27.900 it was the Russians 00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:28.900 I don't think 00:33:28.900 --> 00:33:29.900 it was the Nazis 00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:30.900 who killed the Poles 00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:31.900 at Katyn 00:33:31.900 --> 00:33:32.900 in the Katyn forest 00:33:32.900 --> 00:33:33.900 in 1940 00:33:33.900 --> 00:33:34.900 I think it was really 00:33:34.900 --> 00:33:35.900 the Russians 00:33:35.900 --> 00:33:36.900 I think it was the Russian 00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:37.900 secret police 00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:38.900 we now know 00:33:38.900 --> 00:33:39.900 it was the Russian 00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:40.900 secret police 00:33:40.900 --> 00:33:41.900 who did that 00:33:41.900 --> 00:33:42.900 because the Russians 00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:43.900 have admitted it 00:33:43.900 --> 00:33:44.900 Mr. Gorbachev 00:33:44.900 --> 00:33:45.900 has admitted it 00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:46.900 Mr. Yeltsin 00:33:46.900 --> 00:33:47.900 has admitted 00:33:47.900 --> 00:33:48.900 the Russians 00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:49.900 have actually given 00:33:49.900 --> 00:33:50.900 the Polish government 00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:51.900 photocopies 00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:52.900 of the murder warrants 00:33:52.900 --> 00:33:53.900 the death warrants 00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:54.900 in the forests of Katyn 00:33:54.900 --> 00:33:55.900 near Smolensk 00:33:55.900 --> 00:33:56.900 in 1940 00:33:56.900 --> 00:33:57.900 so there is no question 00:33:57.900 --> 00:33:58.900 about that particular crime 00:33:58.900 --> 00:33:59.900 but at Nuremberg 00:33:59.900 --> 00:34:00.900 it was the Germans 00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:01.900 who were accused 00:34:01.900 --> 00:34:02.900 of having murdered 00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:03.900 those 15,000 Polish officers 00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:04.900 so anybody 00:34:04.900 --> 00:34:06.700 who goes to France 00:34:06.700 --> 00:34:07.700 now and challenges 00:34:07.700 --> 00:34:08.700 that fact 00:34:08.700 --> 00:34:09.700 is committing 00:34:09.700 --> 00:34:10.700 a criminal offense 00:34:10.700 --> 00:34:11.700 and they are going 00:34:11.700 --> 00:34:12.700 to be fined 00:34:12.700 --> 00:34:13.700 like me 00:34:13.700 --> 00:34:14.700 and that newspaper 00:34:14.700 --> 00:34:15.700 and that journalist 00:34:15.700 --> 00:34:16.700 but it gets worse 00:34:16.700 --> 00:34:17.700 because it is a criminal offense 00:34:17.700 --> 00:34:18.700 to mention these crimes 00:34:18.700 --> 00:34:19.700 to mention the challenging 00:34:19.700 --> 00:34:20.700 of these crimes 00:34:20.700 --> 00:34:21.700 so the indictment 00:34:21.700 --> 00:34:22.700 that was served on me 00:34:22.700 --> 00:34:23.700 said 00:34:23.700 --> 00:34:24.700 Mr. Irving 00:34:24.700 --> 00:34:25.700 in July 1993 00:34:25.700 --> 00:34:26.700 given an interview 00:34:26.700 --> 00:34:27.700 to a journalist 00:34:27.700 --> 00:34:28.700 of Le Monde 00:34:28.700 --> 00:34:29.700 in which you stated 00:34:29.700 --> 00:34:30.700 I do not believe 00:34:30.700 --> 00:34:31.700 that the 00:34:31.700 --> 00:34:32.700 dot dot dot 00:34:32.700 --> 00:34:33.700 existed 00:34:33.700 --> 00:34:35.080 and the words 00:34:35.080 --> 00:34:36.080 dot dot dot 00:34:36.080 --> 00:34:37.080 are followed by 00:34:37.080 --> 00:34:38.080 brackets 00:34:38.080 --> 00:34:39.080 with the words 00:34:39.080 --> 00:34:40.080 censored 00:34:40.080 --> 00:34:41.080 under the 00:34:41.080 --> 00:34:42.080 Fabius Geso 00:34:42.080 --> 00:34:43.210 law of 1990 00:34:43.210 --> 00:34:44.210 so they are not even 00:34:44.210 --> 00:34:45.210 allowed to mention 00:34:45.210 --> 00:34:46.210 those words 00:34:46.210 --> 00:34:47.210 in the indictment 00:34:47.210 --> 00:34:48.430 telling you 00:34:48.430 --> 00:34:49.430 what you are being 00:34:49.430 --> 00:34:50.430 charged with 00:34:50.430 --> 00:34:51.430 this is how 00:34:51.430 --> 00:34:52.430 and the reason 00:34:52.430 --> 00:34:53.430 for that is simple 00:34:53.430 --> 00:34:54.430 because part 00:34:54.430 --> 00:34:55.430 of the penalty 00:34:55.430 --> 00:34:56.430 is not only 00:34:56.430 --> 00:34:57.430 you find 00:34:57.430 --> 00:34:58.430 some horrendous sum 00:34:58.430 --> 00:34:59.590 not only 00:34:59.590 --> 00:35:00.590 you are ordered 00:35:00.590 --> 00:35:01.590 to pay 00:35:01.590 --> 00:35:02.590 all the legal costs 00:35:02.590 --> 00:35:03.590 of all the lawyers 00:35:03.590 --> 00:35:04.590 who have turned out 00:35:04.590 --> 00:35:05.590 against you 00:35:05.590 --> 00:35:06.590 and it is not only 00:35:06.590 --> 00:35:07.590 the lawyers 00:35:07.590 --> 00:35:08.590 of the government 00:35:08.590 --> 00:35:09.590 who are against you 00:35:09.590 --> 00:35:10.590 you find suddenly 00:35:10.590 --> 00:35:11.590 in court against you 00:35:11.590 --> 00:35:12.590 lawyers representing 00:35:12.590 --> 00:35:13.590 all sorts of strange 00:35:13.590 --> 00:35:14.590 organizations 00:35:14.590 --> 00:35:15.590 of communist veterans 00:35:15.590 --> 00:35:16.590 and Jewish victims 00:35:16.590 --> 00:35:17.590 and this kind of 00:35:17.590 --> 00:35:18.590 they have all got 00:35:18.590 --> 00:35:19.590 their lawyers in court 00:35:19.590 --> 00:35:20.590 representing 00:35:20.590 --> 00:35:21.590 these associations 00:35:21.590 --> 00:35:22.590 and organizations 00:35:22.590 --> 00:35:23.590 they have all got 00:35:23.590 --> 00:35:24.590 an interest 00:35:24.590 --> 00:35:25.590 you will pay 00:35:25.590 --> 00:35:26.590 compensation 00:35:26.590 --> 00:35:27.590 to these 00:35:27.590 --> 00:35:28.590 you will pay 00:35:28.590 --> 00:35:29.590 those lawyers 00:35:29.590 --> 00:35:30.590 you will pay 00:35:30.590 --> 00:35:31.590 compensation 00:35:31.590 --> 00:35:32.590 to that organization 00:35:32.590 --> 00:35:33.590 that organization 00:35:33.590 --> 00:35:34.590 every organization 00:35:34.590 --> 00:35:35.590 represented in court 00:35:35.590 --> 00:35:36.590 gets a nice handout 00:35:36.590 --> 00:35:37.590 and the final penalty 00:35:37.590 --> 00:35:38.590 is you are also ordered 00:35:38.590 --> 00:35:39.590 to publicize 00:35:39.590 --> 00:35:40.590 in a display advertisement 00:35:40.590 --> 00:35:41.590 in five of France's 00:35:41.590 --> 00:35:42.590 biggest newspapers 00:35:42.590 --> 00:35:43.590 the full details 00:35:43.590 --> 00:35:44.590 of the offense 00:35:44.590 --> 00:35:45.590 and the penalty 00:35:45.590 --> 00:35:46.590 and that of course 00:35:46.590 --> 00:35:47.590 is the most savage 00:35:47.590 --> 00:35:48.590 swinging financial penalty 00:35:48.590 --> 00:35:49.590 because you know 00:35:49.590 --> 00:35:50.820 what display advertising 00:35:50.820 --> 00:35:51.820 costs 00:35:51.820 --> 00:35:52.820 and they don't want 00:35:52.820 --> 00:35:53.820 in that advertisement 00:35:53.820 --> 00:35:54.820 newspapers announcing 00:35:54.820 --> 00:35:55.820 your penalty 00:35:55.820 --> 00:35:56.820 they don't want you 00:35:56.820 --> 00:35:57.820 to repeat of course 00:35:57.820 --> 00:35:58.820 what you've been charged with 00:35:58.820 --> 00:35:59.820 that's why 00:35:59.820 --> 00:36:00.820 that's been cut out 00:36:00.820 --> 00:36:02.620 of the indictment 00:36:02.620 --> 00:36:04.620 it's all a bit Orwellian 00:36:04.620 --> 00:36:06.100 it's all 00:36:06.100 --> 00:36:07.100 if you've ever read 00:36:07.100 --> 00:36:08.130 Animal Farm 00:36:08.130 --> 00:36:09.130 or 1984 00:36:09.130 --> 00:36:10.130 you understand 00:36:10.130 --> 00:36:11.130 what I'm talking about 00:36:11.130 --> 00:36:12.130 the things that 00:36:12.130 --> 00:36:13.130 George Orwell wrote 00:36:13.130 --> 00:36:14.130 about in the 1940s 00:36:14.130 --> 00:36:15.130 and the 1950s 00:36:15.130 --> 00:36:16.130 as being an absurd 00:36:16.130 --> 00:36:17.130 situation 00:36:17.130 --> 00:36:18.130 which might one day 00:36:18.130 --> 00:36:19.130 happen 00:36:19.130 --> 00:36:20.130 have already happened 00:36:20.130 --> 00:36:21.130 in many countries 00:36:21.130 --> 00:36:22.130 in Europe 00:36:22.130 --> 00:36:23.130 and around the world 00:36:23.130 --> 00:36:24.130 because vested interests 00:36:24.130 --> 00:36:25.130 are trying to protect 00:36:25.130 --> 00:36:26.670 people 00:36:26.670 --> 00:36:27.670 so what are these legends 00:36:27.670 --> 00:36:29.090 I've got no vested interest 00:36:29.090 --> 00:36:30.090 one way or the other 00:36:30.090 --> 00:36:32.090 if I say 00:36:32.090 --> 00:36:33.090 as I do 00:36:33.090 --> 00:36:35.250 I don't believe 00:36:35.250 --> 00:36:36.340 in the legend 00:36:36.340 --> 00:36:37.340 of the Holocaust 00:36:37.340 --> 00:36:38.340 as it is at present 00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:39.340 propagated 00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:40.790 it's not because 00:36:40.790 --> 00:36:41.790 I've got a vested interest 00:36:41.790 --> 00:36:42.790 I'm not making money 00:36:42.790 --> 00:36:43.790 out of saying that 00:36:43.790 --> 00:36:44.820 no one's going to 00:36:44.820 --> 00:36:45.820 come up to me afterwards 00:36:45.820 --> 00:36:46.820 and say 00:36:46.820 --> 00:36:47.820 you've done willow 00:36:47.820 --> 00:36:48.820 and here's the money 00:36:48.820 --> 00:36:49.820 I promised you for saying that 00:36:49.820 --> 00:36:50.820 no one's going to say that 00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:51.820 I'm saying it because 00:36:51.820 --> 00:36:52.820 it's the conclusion 00:36:52.820 --> 00:36:53.820 that I've come to 00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:54.820 and the fact that 00:36:54.820 --> 00:36:55.820 I say that in fact 00:36:55.820 --> 00:36:56.820 doesn't earn me 00:36:56.820 --> 00:36:57.820 money 00:36:57.820 --> 00:36:58.820 it costs me money 00:36:58.820 --> 00:36:59.820 my agent 00:36:59.820 --> 00:37:00.820 when I published this book 00:37:00.820 --> 00:37:01.820 originally in 1977 00:37:01.820 --> 00:37:02.920 Max Becker 00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:03.920 a dear old 00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:04.920 American literary agent 00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:05.920 one of the best 00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:06.920 when I delivered 00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:07.920 the manuscript to me 00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:08.920 he said David 00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:09.920 we've got a problem 00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:11.210 with your Hitler book 00:37:11.210 --> 00:37:12.210 where are the 15 pages 00:37:12.210 --> 00:37:13.210 on the Holocaust 00:37:13.210 --> 00:37:14.210 I said Max 00:37:14.210 --> 00:37:15.210 there aren't 15 pages 00:37:15.210 --> 00:37:16.210 on the Holocaust 00:37:16.210 --> 00:37:17.210 he said well yeah 00:37:17.210 --> 00:37:18.210 but you've got to write them 00:37:18.210 --> 00:37:19.210 you've got to put them in 00:37:19.210 --> 00:37:20.210 you can't write a biography 00:37:20.210 --> 00:37:21.210 of Adolf Hitler 00:37:21.210 --> 00:37:22.210 without putting 00:37:22.210 --> 00:37:23.210 at least 15 pages 00:37:23.210 --> 00:37:24.210 on the Holocaust 00:37:24.210 --> 00:37:25.210 and I say Max 00:37:25.210 --> 00:37:26.240 my problem is 00:37:26.240 --> 00:37:27.240 I knew all Adolf Hitler's 00:37:27.240 --> 00:37:28.240 private people 00:37:28.240 --> 00:37:29.340 I got to know 00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:31.340 all his private secretaries 00:37:31.340 --> 00:37:32.340 all the girls 00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:33.340 who had worked 00:37:33.340 --> 00:37:34.340 as typists 00:37:34.340 --> 00:37:35.340 for Adolf Hitler 00:37:35.340 --> 00:37:36.340 I spent 10 years 00:37:36.340 --> 00:37:37.340 winning their trust 00:37:37.340 --> 00:37:38.340 in getting them 00:37:38.340 --> 00:37:39.340 to look under their beds 00:37:39.340 --> 00:37:40.340 and find their old 00:37:40.340 --> 00:37:41.340 cardboard boxes 00:37:41.340 --> 00:37:42.340 full of diaries 00:37:42.340 --> 00:37:43.340 and private letters 00:37:43.340 --> 00:37:44.340 and papers 00:37:44.340 --> 00:37:45.340 that they had written 00:37:45.340 --> 00:37:46.340 I spent 10 years 00:37:46.340 --> 00:37:47.340 finding out 00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:48.340 what really happened 00:37:48.340 --> 00:37:49.340 based on the archives 00:37:49.340 --> 00:37:50.340 and in all those archives 00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:51.340 around the world 00:37:51.340 --> 00:37:52.340 there aren't those 15 pages 00:37:52.340 --> 00:37:53.340 you're talking about Max 00:37:53.340 --> 00:37:54.340 there's not one single 00:37:54.340 --> 00:37:55.340 sheet of paper 00:37:55.340 --> 00:37:56.340 linking Adolf Hitler 00:37:56.340 --> 00:37:57.340 to what you call 00:37:57.340 --> 00:37:58.340 the Holocaust 00:37:58.340 --> 00:37:59.340 so I'm not going 00:37:59.340 --> 00:38:00.340 to put it in 00:38:00.340 --> 00:38:01.340 and he says 00:38:01.340 --> 00:38:02.340 Jesus David 00:38:02.340 --> 00:38:03.340 if that's your 00:38:03.340 --> 00:38:04.340 let me tell you 00:38:04.340 --> 00:38:05.340 what's going to happen 00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:06.340 you're going to lose 00:38:06.340 --> 00:38:07.340 the Book of the Month Club 00:38:07.340 --> 00:38:08.340 you're going to lose 00:38:08.340 --> 00:38:09.340 the Reader's Digest deal 00:38:09.340 --> 00:38:10.340 you're going to lose 00:38:10.340 --> 00:38:11.340 the Sunday Times contract 00:38:11.340 --> 00:38:12.340 in England 00:38:12.340 --> 00:38:13.340 you're going to lose 00:38:13.340 --> 00:38:14.340 any chance of doing 00:38:14.340 --> 00:38:15.340 a paperback 00:38:15.340 --> 00:38:16.340 or softback publication 00:38:16.340 --> 00:38:17.340 in the United States 00:38:17.340 --> 00:38:18.340 because all the seven 00:38:18.340 --> 00:38:19.340 biggest publishing houses 00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:20.340 the paperback publishing houses 00:38:20.340 --> 00:38:21.340 in the United States 00:38:21.340 --> 00:38:22.340 who publish paperbacks 00:38:22.340 --> 00:38:23.340 the seven biggest 00:38:23.340 --> 00:38:24.560 to all Jewish 00:38:24.560 --> 00:38:25.560 and they're not going 00:38:25.560 --> 00:38:26.560 to publish 00:38:26.560 --> 00:38:27.560 what you haven't had 00:38:27.560 --> 00:38:28.590 you don't miss 00:38:28.590 --> 00:38:29.590 but he got 10% 00:38:29.590 --> 00:38:30.590 of course 00:38:30.590 --> 00:38:31.590 about what I hadn't had 00:38:31.590 --> 00:38:32.590 and he wasn't happy 00:38:32.590 --> 00:38:33.590 about that at all 00:38:33.590 --> 00:38:34.590 and he said 00:38:34.590 --> 00:38:36.100 David 00:38:36.100 --> 00:38:37.100 I said 00:38:37.100 --> 00:38:38.100 I can't 00:38:38.100 --> 00:38:39.100 there's no evidence 00:38:39.100 --> 00:38:40.100 he said 00:38:40.100 --> 00:38:41.100 for God's sake David 00:38:41.100 --> 00:38:42.100 if you can't find 00:38:42.100 --> 00:38:43.100 the evidence 00:38:43.100 --> 00:38:44.100 do what the others do 00:38:44.100 --> 00:38:45.100 invent the evidence 00:38:45.100 --> 00:38:46.100 I remember him 00:38:46.100 --> 00:38:47.100 very clearly saying that 00:38:47.100 --> 00:38:48.100 that's one thing 00:38:48.100 --> 00:38:49.100 I remember very clearly 00:38:49.100 --> 00:38:50.100 and the other thing 00:38:50.100 --> 00:38:51.100 I remember very clearly 00:38:51.100 --> 00:38:52.100 was the day 00:38:52.100 --> 00:38:53.230 when it came 00:38:53.230 --> 00:38:54.230 for the Viking Press 00:38:54.230 --> 00:38:55.230 to publish this book 00:38:55.230 --> 00:38:56.230 and a few weeks beforehand 00:38:56.230 --> 00:38:57.230 we had a meeting 00:38:57.230 --> 00:38:58.230 of the Viking Press's 00:38:58.230 --> 00:38:59.230 leading sales representatives 00:38:59.230 --> 00:39:00.230 came from all over the country 00:39:00.230 --> 00:39:01.260 right across the Union 00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:02.260 they came to New York 00:39:02.260 --> 00:39:03.260 and I had to address them 00:39:03.260 --> 00:39:04.260 this happens 00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:05.260 in publishing houses 00:39:05.260 --> 00:39:06.260 they have five or six 00:39:06.260 --> 00:39:07.260 of their leading authors 00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:08.260 with the new books 00:39:08.260 --> 00:39:09.260 of that year 00:39:09.260 --> 00:39:10.260 that are going to be published 00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:11.260 you get up on the stage 00:39:11.260 --> 00:39:12.260 and you talk 00:39:12.260 --> 00:39:13.260 to the sales representatives 00:39:13.260 --> 00:39:14.260 they sit in front of you 00:39:14.260 --> 00:39:15.260 and you tell them 00:39:15.260 --> 00:39:16.300 what's new about this book 00:39:16.300 --> 00:39:17.300 and as I went on the stage 00:39:17.300 --> 00:39:18.300 the sales manager 00:39:18.300 --> 00:39:19.300 of the Viking Press 00:39:19.300 --> 00:39:20.300 came up to me 00:39:20.300 --> 00:39:21.300 and he took me 00:39:21.300 --> 00:39:22.300 out of the arm 00:39:22.300 --> 00:39:23.300 and he said 00:39:23.300 --> 00:39:24.300 Dave we've got 00:39:24.300 --> 00:39:25.680 a bit of a problem 00:39:25.680 --> 00:39:26.680 we've got a bit of a problem 00:39:26.680 --> 00:39:27.680 with your book 00:39:27.680 --> 00:39:28.680 and he said 00:39:28.680 --> 00:39:29.680 this problem 00:39:29.680 --> 00:39:30.680 will be solved instantly 00:39:30.680 --> 00:39:31.680 if you can give me 00:39:31.680 --> 00:39:32.680 the right answer 00:39:32.680 --> 00:39:34.740 to the following question 00:39:34.740 --> 00:39:35.740 are you Jewish 00:39:35.740 --> 00:39:36.740 it's the kind of question 00:39:36.740 --> 00:39:37.740 that means nothing 00:39:37.740 --> 00:39:38.800 to you at the time 00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:39.800 but over the years 00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:40.800 that followed 00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:41.800 that was 1975 00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:42.800 20 years have passed 00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:44.280 since then 00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:45.280 that little question 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:46.280 has kept on coming 00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:47.280 back into my mind 00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:48.280 I had to say 00:39:48.280 --> 00:39:50.020 I'm not Jewish 00:39:50.020 --> 00:39:51.020 his face fell 00:39:51.020 --> 00:39:52.020 he knew 00:39:52.020 --> 00:39:53.020 they had a problem 00:39:53.020 --> 00:39:55.170 and I felt sorry for him 00:39:55.170 --> 00:39:56.170 but there was nothing 00:39:56.170 --> 00:39:57.170 I could do about it 00:39:57.170 --> 00:39:58.170 if I was called 00:39:58.170 --> 00:39:59.170 Irving David 00:39:59.170 --> 00:40:00.170 I suppose 00:40:00.170 --> 00:40:01.170 he might have had a chance 00:40:01.170 --> 00:40:02.170 but being called 00:40:02.170 --> 00:40:03.170 David Irving 00:40:03.170 --> 00:40:04.170 everything was just 00:40:04.170 --> 00:40:05.170 the wrong way around 00:40:05.170 --> 00:40:07.830 for them 00:40:07.830 --> 00:40:08.830 so that book 00:40:08.830 --> 00:40:09.830 has been in trouble 00:40:09.830 --> 00:40:10.830 ever since 00:40:10.830 --> 00:40:11.830 a few years ago 00:40:11.830 --> 00:40:12.830 I was interviewed 00:40:12.830 --> 00:40:13.830 by somebody 00:40:13.830 --> 00:40:14.830 in Time magazine 00:40:14.830 --> 00:40:15.830 and he said 00:40:15.830 --> 00:40:16.830 you know 00:40:16.830 --> 00:40:17.830 before I had this 00:40:17.830 --> 00:40:18.830 lunch date with you 00:40:18.830 --> 00:40:19.830 today Irving 00:40:19.830 --> 00:40:20.830 I went and had a look 00:40:20.830 --> 00:40:21.830 in our clippings library 00:40:21.830 --> 00:40:22.830 to get up all the old 00:40:22.830 --> 00:40:23.830 clippings about you 00:40:23.830 --> 00:40:24.830 and I tell you 00:40:24.830 --> 00:40:25.830 an odd thing 00:40:25.830 --> 00:40:26.830 I've noticed 00:40:26.830 --> 00:40:27.830 until you published 00:40:27.830 --> 00:40:28.830 your book 00:40:28.830 --> 00:40:29.830 Hitler's War 00:40:29.830 --> 00:40:30.830 in 1975 00:40:30.830 --> 00:40:31.830 you couldn't put 00:40:31.830 --> 00:40:32.830 a foot wrong 00:40:32.830 --> 00:40:33.830 and then suddenly 00:40:33.830 --> 00:40:35.830 everything turned sour 00:40:35.830 --> 00:40:37.060 and I said 00:40:37.060 --> 00:40:38.060 tell me about it 00:40:38.060 --> 00:40:39.060 I've noticed that 00:40:39.060 --> 00:40:40.060 fact myself 00:40:41.060 --> 00:40:42.060 but it's interesting 00:40:42.060 --> 00:40:43.060 because when you're standing 00:40:43.060 --> 00:40:44.060 in the eye of the storm 00:40:44.060 --> 00:40:45.060 and you see it all 00:40:45.060 --> 00:40:46.060 happening to you 00:40:46.060 --> 00:40:47.060 and over the later years 00:40:47.060 --> 00:40:48.060 you see the campaigns 00:40:48.060 --> 00:40:49.060 you see the international 00:40:49.060 --> 00:40:50.060 campaign of vilification 00:40:50.060 --> 00:40:51.060 you find yourself 00:40:51.060 --> 00:40:52.060 sitting on a plane 00:40:52.060 --> 00:40:53.060 in handcuffs 00:40:53.060 --> 00:40:54.060 being thrown out 00:40:54.060 --> 00:40:55.060 of a country 00:40:55.060 --> 00:40:56.060 that you've been visiting 00:40:56.060 --> 00:40:57.060 quite harmlessly 00:40:57.060 --> 00:40:58.060 for 30 years 00:40:58.060 --> 00:40:59.060 you find book shops 00:40:59.060 --> 00:41:00.060 windows being smashed in 00:41:00.060 --> 00:41:01.060 you must be doing 00:41:01.060 --> 00:41:02.060 something right 00:41:02.060 --> 00:41:03.250 you must be doing 00:41:03.250 --> 00:41:04.250 something right 00:41:04.250 --> 00:41:05.250 otherwise you 00:41:05.250 --> 00:41:06.250 as an individual citizen 00:41:06.250 --> 00:41:07.250 why else would 00:41:07.250 --> 00:41:08.250 all these people 00:41:08.250 --> 00:41:09.250 be getting so mad 00:41:09.250 --> 00:41:10.250 as hell at you 00:41:10.250 --> 00:41:11.440 and the answer is 00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:12.440 that for 30 years 00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:13.440 I've worked in the archives 00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:15.440 and people believe 00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:16.440 what I say 00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:17.730 my voice carries 00:41:17.730 --> 00:41:19.730 a certain authority 00:41:19.730 --> 00:41:20.860 I give evidence 00:41:20.860 --> 00:41:21.860 in court hearings 00:41:21.860 --> 00:41:22.860 in Canada for example 00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:23.860 against Ernst Zundel 00:41:23.860 --> 00:41:24.860 I was called 00:41:24.860 --> 00:41:25.860 for the defense 00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:26.860 and the judge afterwards 00:41:26.860 --> 00:41:27.860 said in private 00:41:27.860 --> 00:41:28.860 to the other lawyers 00:41:28.860 --> 00:41:29.860 he'd never seen 00:41:29.860 --> 00:41:30.860 a witness who was 00:41:30.860 --> 00:41:31.860 as compelling 00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:32.860 as this English historian 00:41:32.860 --> 00:41:33.860 who had the answers 00:41:33.860 --> 00:41:35.020 they would show documents 00:41:35.020 --> 00:41:36.020 on the screen 00:41:36.020 --> 00:41:37.020 which I'd never seen 00:41:37.020 --> 00:41:38.020 in my life before 00:41:38.020 --> 00:41:39.020 and the prosecution council 00:41:39.020 --> 00:41:40.020 would believe straight away 00:41:40.020 --> 00:41:41.020 we have the 00:41:41.020 --> 00:41:42.020 rather like the 00:41:42.020 --> 00:41:43.020 OJ Simpson case 00:41:43.020 --> 00:41:44.020 Mr Irving 00:41:44.020 --> 00:41:45.020 how do you explain 00:41:45.020 --> 00:41:46.020 that document 00:41:46.020 --> 00:41:47.020 here is the chief of the SS 00:41:47.020 --> 00:41:48.020 talking about gas chambers 00:41:48.020 --> 00:41:49.020 in a document 00:41:49.020 --> 00:41:50.590 a letter written to Himmler 00:41:50.590 --> 00:41:51.590 and I would say straight away 00:41:51.590 --> 00:41:52.590 but look again 00:41:52.590 --> 00:41:53.590 at that letter 00:41:53.590 --> 00:41:54.590 it has no security 00:41:54.590 --> 00:41:55.590 classification on it 00:41:55.590 --> 00:41:56.590 if they were talking 00:41:56.590 --> 00:41:57.590 about the final solution 00:41:57.590 --> 00:41:58.590 which was the most 00:41:58.590 --> 00:41:59.590 as you yourself say 00:41:59.590 --> 00:42:00.590 the most secret 00:42:00.590 --> 00:42:02.590 of all the Nazi operations 00:42:02.590 --> 00:42:03.590 this document 00:42:03.590 --> 00:42:04.590 would have a security 00:42:04.590 --> 00:42:05.590 classification on it 00:42:05.590 --> 00:42:06.590 it would be stamped 00:42:06.590 --> 00:42:07.590 with secret 00:42:07.590 --> 00:42:08.590 or top secret 00:42:08.590 --> 00:42:09.590 in German 00:42:09.590 --> 00:42:10.590 Geheime Kommando sache 00:42:10.590 --> 00:42:11.660 Geheime Reichssache 00:42:11.660 --> 00:42:12.660 and if it hasn't got 00:42:12.660 --> 00:42:13.660 the rubber stamp 00:42:13.660 --> 00:42:14.660 it would at least 00:42:14.660 --> 00:42:15.660 have those initials 00:42:15.660 --> 00:42:16.660 after the registration 00:42:16.660 --> 00:42:17.660 number of the letter 00:42:17.660 --> 00:42:18.660 GRS or GKDOS 00:42:18.660 --> 00:42:19.660 Geheime Kommando sache 00:42:19.660 --> 00:42:20.660 and the fact that 00:42:20.660 --> 00:42:21.660 it hasn't got 00:42:21.660 --> 00:42:22.660 that security classification 00:42:22.660 --> 00:42:23.660 means that this document 00:42:23.660 --> 00:42:24.660 is of what I would call 00:42:24.660 --> 00:42:26.660 janitorial level 00:42:26.660 --> 00:42:27.660 literally 00:42:27.660 --> 00:42:28.720 a perfectly innocent 00:42:28.720 --> 00:42:29.720 explanation 00:42:29.720 --> 00:42:30.720 as to why these 00:42:30.720 --> 00:42:31.720 sinister words 00:42:31.720 --> 00:42:32.720 like gas chambers 00:42:32.720 --> 00:42:33.720 come into a German 00:42:33.720 --> 00:42:34.720 document 00:42:34.720 --> 00:42:35.720 is because in fact 00:42:35.720 --> 00:42:36.720 it turned out to be 00:42:36.720 --> 00:42:37.720 part of the coking process 00:42:37.720 --> 00:42:38.720 for generating 00:42:38.720 --> 00:42:39.720 the necessary 00:42:39.720 --> 00:42:40.720 high temperature gases 00:42:40.720 --> 00:42:41.720 that were used 00:42:41.720 --> 00:42:43.940 in the crematoria 00:42:43.940 --> 00:42:44.940 so 00:42:44.940 --> 00:42:45.940 what am I saying 00:42:45.940 --> 00:42:47.260 well the first thing 00:42:47.260 --> 00:42:48.260 I say is 00:42:48.260 --> 00:42:49.260 I came in through 00:42:49.260 --> 00:42:50.260 the back door 00:42:50.260 --> 00:42:51.260 so to speak 00:42:51.260 --> 00:42:52.260 when I was writing 00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:53.260 the Adolf Hitler book 00:42:53.260 --> 00:42:54.260 and it occurred to me 00:42:54.260 --> 00:42:55.260 that nowhere 00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:56.260 in any of the archives 00:42:56.260 --> 00:42:57.260 did I find 00:42:57.260 --> 00:42:58.260 one single document 00:42:58.260 --> 00:42:59.260 linking Hitler 00:42:59.260 --> 00:43:00.260 with what is now 00:43:00.260 --> 00:43:01.260 called the Holocaust 00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:02.260 notice the word 00:43:02.260 --> 00:43:03.260 that I say 00:43:03.260 --> 00:43:04.260 is now called 00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:05.260 the Holocaust 00:43:05.260 --> 00:43:06.260 and it's a modern word 00:43:06.260 --> 00:43:07.830 it's a modern word 00:43:07.830 --> 00:43:08.830 it's been generated 00:43:08.830 --> 00:43:09.830 by the Holocaust lobby 00:43:09.830 --> 00:43:10.830 because they know 00:43:10.830 --> 00:43:11.830 how to sell something 00:43:11.830 --> 00:43:12.830 they're selling a package 00:43:12.830 --> 00:43:13.830 it's got a capital H 00:43:13.830 --> 00:43:15.120 like Tylenol 00:43:15.120 --> 00:43:16.120 capital T 00:43:16.120 --> 00:43:17.120 they're selling 00:43:17.120 --> 00:43:18.220 a word 00:43:18.220 --> 00:43:19.220 and a concept 00:43:19.220 --> 00:43:20.220 and that word 00:43:20.220 --> 00:43:21.220 Holocaust 00:43:21.220 --> 00:43:22.220 is the first word 00:43:22.220 --> 00:43:23.220 I'm going to impress on you 00:43:23.220 --> 00:43:24.220 as being something 00:43:24.220 --> 00:43:25.220 you should be 00:43:25.220 --> 00:43:26.220 very suspicious of 00:43:26.220 --> 00:43:27.220 you're invited 00:43:27.220 --> 00:43:28.220 not to open 00:43:28.220 --> 00:43:29.220 the package please 00:43:29.220 --> 00:43:30.220 like a package of Tylenol 00:43:30.220 --> 00:43:31.220 please don't touch 00:43:31.220 --> 00:43:32.220 the package 00:43:32.220 --> 00:43:33.220 you have to buy 00:43:33.220 --> 00:43:34.220 the whole package 00:43:34.220 --> 00:43:35.220 without inspecting it 00:43:35.220 --> 00:43:36.220 anybody who does want 00:43:36.220 --> 00:43:37.220 to open that package 00:43:37.220 --> 00:43:38.220 and inspect it 00:43:38.220 --> 00:43:39.220 is then called 00:43:39.220 --> 00:43:40.220 something else 00:43:40.220 --> 00:43:41.220 and this is the second word 00:43:41.220 --> 00:43:42.310 Holocaust Denier 00:43:42.310 --> 00:43:43.310 isn't that absurd 00:43:43.310 --> 00:43:44.310 how can anyone 00:43:44.310 --> 00:43:45.310 deny the Holocaust 00:43:45.310 --> 00:43:46.310 we've seen the pictures 00:43:46.310 --> 00:43:48.310 we've heard the eyewitnesses 00:43:48.310 --> 00:43:49.310 Holocaust Denier 00:43:49.310 --> 00:43:50.310 there's nothing 00:43:50.310 --> 00:43:51.310 more absurd 00:43:51.310 --> 00:43:52.310 nothing more worthy 00:43:52.310 --> 00:43:53.310 of repugnance 00:43:53.310 --> 00:43:54.310 than the Holocaust Denier 00:43:54.310 --> 00:43:55.310 capital H 00:43:55.310 --> 00:43:56.310 capital D 00:43:56.310 --> 00:43:57.310 not somebody 00:43:57.310 --> 00:43:58.310 who questions 00:43:58.310 --> 00:43:59.310 the Holocaust 00:43:59.310 --> 00:44:00.310 or somebody 00:44:00.310 --> 00:44:01.660 who is a skeptic 00:44:01.660 --> 00:44:02.660 as I am 00:44:02.660 --> 00:44:03.660 bits of the story 00:44:03.660 --> 00:44:04.660 are undoubtedly true 00:44:04.660 --> 00:44:05.660 let me say this 00:44:05.660 --> 00:44:06.660 there's no doubt 00:44:06.660 --> 00:44:07.660 at all 00:44:07.660 --> 00:44:08.660 and particularly 00:44:08.660 --> 00:44:09.660 the young members 00:44:09.660 --> 00:44:10.660 of the audience 00:44:10.660 --> 00:44:11.660 here should realize this 00:44:11.660 --> 00:44:12.660 there's no doubt 00:44:12.660 --> 00:44:13.660 at all 00:44:13.660 --> 00:44:14.660 that the Nazis 00:44:14.660 --> 00:44:15.660 in their 12 year rule 00:44:15.660 --> 00:44:16.660 inflicted nameless horrors 00:44:16.660 --> 00:44:17.660 on large segments 00:44:17.660 --> 00:44:18.660 of the population 00:44:18.660 --> 00:44:19.660 including the Jews 00:44:19.660 --> 00:44:20.660 and other people 00:44:20.660 --> 00:44:21.660 whom they disliked 00:44:21.660 --> 00:44:22.730 there's no doubt 00:44:22.730 --> 00:44:23.730 about that at all 00:44:23.730 --> 00:44:24.730 what I do question 00:44:24.730 --> 00:44:25.820 are 00:44:25.820 --> 00:44:26.820 the methods 00:44:26.820 --> 00:44:27.820 was it done 00:44:27.820 --> 00:44:28.820 on a methodical scale 00:44:28.820 --> 00:44:29.820 was it done 00:44:29.820 --> 00:44:30.820 as a measure 00:44:30.820 --> 00:44:31.820 of the German state 00:44:31.820 --> 00:44:32.820 if the Nazis 00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:33.820 massacred the Jews 00:44:33.820 --> 00:44:34.820 on any 00:44:34.820 --> 00:44:35.820 enormous scale 00:44:35.820 --> 00:44:36.820 was it done 00:44:36.820 --> 00:44:37.820 on the orders 00:44:37.820 --> 00:44:38.820 of Adolf Hitler himself 00:44:38.820 --> 00:44:39.820 in other words 00:44:39.820 --> 00:44:40.820 the man 00:44:40.820 --> 00:44:41.820 who the German people 00:44:41.820 --> 00:44:42.820 had elected 00:44:42.820 --> 00:44:43.820 as their head of state 00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:44.820 or was it something 00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:45.890 that just happened 00:44:45.890 --> 00:44:46.890 was it premeditated 00:44:46.890 --> 00:44:47.890 to use 00:44:47.890 --> 00:44:48.890 O.J. Simpson terminology 00:44:48.890 --> 00:44:49.890 or was it 00:44:49.890 --> 00:44:50.890 second degree murder 00:44:50.890 --> 00:44:51.890 I mean 00:44:51.890 --> 00:44:52.890 these are the phrases 00:44:52.890 --> 00:44:53.890 we all know now 00:44:53.890 --> 00:44:54.890 if you've all been 00:44:54.890 --> 00:44:55.890 sitting in front 00:44:55.890 --> 00:44:56.890 of our televisions 00:44:56.890 --> 00:44:57.890 was it premeditated 00:44:57.890 --> 00:44:58.890 or was it 00:44:58.890 --> 00:44:59.890 second degree murder 00:44:59.890 --> 00:45:00.890 was it all planned 00:45:00.890 --> 00:45:01.890 from the moment 00:45:01.890 --> 00:45:02.890 Hitler gained the power 00:45:02.890 --> 00:45:03.890 or did it just happen 00:45:03.890 --> 00:45:04.890 to happen 00:45:04.890 --> 00:45:05.890 in a way 00:45:05.890 --> 00:45:06.890 that we 00:45:06.890 --> 00:45:07.890 allies 00:45:07.890 --> 00:45:08.890 the British and Americans 00:45:08.890 --> 00:45:10.400 were burning alive 00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:11.400 hundreds of thousands 00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:12.400 of their people 00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:13.400 every night 00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:14.400 and the Germans 00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:15.400 wanted to hit back 00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:16.400 at someone 00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:17.400 and it's human nature 00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:18.400 to hit back 00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:19.400 at somebody 00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:20.500 who's in your power 00:45:20.500 --> 00:45:22.650 if you want to see 00:45:22.650 --> 00:45:23.650 what it looks like 00:45:23.650 --> 00:45:25.380 when a hundred thousand 00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:26.380 people are being 00:45:26.380 --> 00:45:27.380 burned alive 00:45:27.380 --> 00:45:28.380 here's a picture of it 00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:29.380 incidentally 00:45:29.380 --> 00:45:30.380 there that picture there 00:45:30.380 --> 00:45:31.380 not a hundred thousand 00:45:31.380 --> 00:45:32.380 actually it's 00:45:32.380 --> 00:45:33.380 it's forty thousand people 00:45:33.380 --> 00:45:34.380 in the little German town 00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:35.420 of Pforzheim 00:45:35.420 --> 00:45:36.420 none of you have heard of that 00:45:36.420 --> 00:45:37.420 forty thousand people 00:45:37.420 --> 00:45:38.420 in twenty minutes 00:45:38.420 --> 00:45:39.420 in the moment 00:45:39.420 --> 00:45:40.420 that photograph is taken 00:45:40.420 --> 00:45:41.610 by one of our airmen 00:45:41.610 --> 00:45:42.610 from the air 00:45:42.610 --> 00:45:43.610 burned alive 00:45:43.610 --> 00:45:44.610 barbecued 00:45:44.610 --> 00:45:45.610 because they were 00:45:45.610 --> 00:45:46.610 not the wrong colour 00:45:46.610 --> 00:45:47.610 not because they were 00:45:47.610 --> 00:45:48.610 the wrong race 00:45:48.610 --> 00:45:49.610 but because they were Germans 00:45:49.610 --> 00:45:50.610 they were living 00:45:50.610 --> 00:45:52.660 on the wrong side 00:45:52.660 --> 00:45:53.660 of a frontier 00:45:53.660 --> 00:45:54.660 and if I can 00:45:54.660 --> 00:45:55.660 divert here 00:45:55.660 --> 00:45:56.660 for a moment 00:45:56.660 --> 00:45:57.660 I would say 00:45:57.660 --> 00:45:58.660 that if a crime 00:45:58.660 --> 00:45:59.860 was committed 00:45:59.860 --> 00:46:00.860 during World War II 00:46:00.860 --> 00:46:01.860 by any side 00:46:01.860 --> 00:46:02.860 and I'm very open minded 00:46:02.860 --> 00:46:03.860 about crimes 00:46:03.860 --> 00:46:04.860 being committed 00:46:04.860 --> 00:46:05.860 by all sides 00:46:05.860 --> 00:46:06.860 I don't think 00:46:06.860 --> 00:46:07.860 the crime was genocide 00:46:07.860 --> 00:46:08.860 it's now holocaust 00:46:08.860 --> 00:46:09.860 holocaust 00:46:09.860 --> 00:46:10.860 denier 00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:12.180 and genocide 00:46:12.180 --> 00:46:13.180 the crime wasn't genocide 00:46:13.180 --> 00:46:15.660 it's a word I make up 00:46:15.660 --> 00:46:16.660 innocenticide 00:46:16.660 --> 00:46:18.720 the killing of innocent people 00:46:18.720 --> 00:46:19.720 in war 00:46:19.720 --> 00:46:20.720 that is a crime 00:46:20.720 --> 00:46:23.710 if the Jews were killed 00:46:23.710 --> 00:46:24.710 in Auschwitz 00:46:24.710 --> 00:46:25.710 or Treblinka 00:46:25.710 --> 00:46:26.710 or anywhere else 00:46:26.710 --> 00:46:27.710 and we'll look at that 00:46:27.710 --> 00:46:28.710 particular statement 00:46:28.710 --> 00:46:30.130 in a minute 00:46:30.130 --> 00:46:31.130 it wasn't a crime 00:46:31.130 --> 00:46:32.130 because they were Jews 00:46:32.130 --> 00:46:33.130 it was a crime 00:46:33.130 --> 00:46:34.130 because they were innocent Jews 00:46:34.130 --> 00:46:35.130 who were being killed 00:46:35.130 --> 00:46:36.130 it was their innocence 00:46:36.130 --> 00:46:37.130 that made them a crime 00:46:37.130 --> 00:46:38.130 made it a crime 00:46:38.130 --> 00:46:39.190 and not their Jewishness 00:46:39.190 --> 00:46:40.190 but the Jewish community today 00:46:40.190 --> 00:46:41.190 don't want that 00:46:41.190 --> 00:46:42.190 that's why they've invented 00:46:42.190 --> 00:46:43.190 the third word 00:46:43.190 --> 00:46:44.190 genocide 00:46:44.190 --> 00:46:45.190 the killing of a race 00:46:45.190 --> 00:46:46.420 because that's what 00:46:46.420 --> 00:46:47.420 they make money out of 00:46:47.420 --> 00:46:49.420 if you enlarge the concept 00:46:49.420 --> 00:46:50.420 into the crime 00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:51.420 being the killing 00:46:51.420 --> 00:46:52.420 of any innocent people 00:46:52.420 --> 00:46:53.420 then all sorts of people 00:46:53.420 --> 00:46:54.420 can qualify 00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:55.420 please 00:46:55.420 --> 00:46:57.020 the citizens of Coventry 00:46:57.020 --> 00:46:58.020 the citizens of Nagasaki 00:46:58.020 --> 00:46:59.020 or Hiroshima 00:46:59.020 --> 00:47:02.460 the American airmen 00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:03.460 who suffered 00:47:03.460 --> 00:47:04.460 when they were shot down 00:47:04.460 --> 00:47:05.460 and held in captivity 00:47:05.460 --> 00:47:06.460 the Australians 00:47:06.460 --> 00:47:07.460 who were held in Japanese 00:47:07.460 --> 00:47:08.460 prison camps 00:47:08.460 --> 00:47:09.460 all sorts of people 00:47:09.460 --> 00:47:10.460 suffered nameless horrors 00:47:10.460 --> 00:47:11.460 during World War II 00:47:11.460 --> 00:47:12.460 innocent people 00:47:12.460 --> 00:47:13.460 the people in this photograph 00:47:13.460 --> 00:47:14.460 they suffered 00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:15.460 but they haven't been able 00:47:15.460 --> 00:47:16.460 to claim a bent nickel 00:47:16.460 --> 00:47:17.460 for being burned alive 00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:19.490 but this is it 00:47:19.490 --> 00:47:20.490 you see 00:47:20.490 --> 00:47:21.490 the word genocide 00:47:21.490 --> 00:47:22.490 is a very useful word 00:47:22.490 --> 00:47:23.490 because it limits the concept 00:47:23.490 --> 00:47:24.490 of who is entitled 00:47:24.490 --> 00:47:25.490 to the money please 00:47:25.490 --> 00:47:27.490 only people who've been killed 00:47:27.490 --> 00:47:28.490 because of their race 00:47:28.490 --> 00:47:30.680 but it wasn't their race 00:47:30.680 --> 00:47:31.680 that made it into a crime 00:47:31.680 --> 00:47:32.680 it was their innocence 00:47:32.680 --> 00:47:33.680 that made it into a crime 00:47:33.680 --> 00:47:35.680 so those are the three words 00:47:35.680 --> 00:47:36.680 that are used 00:47:36.680 --> 00:47:37.680 in the propaganda 00:47:37.680 --> 00:47:38.680 that surrounds 00:47:38.680 --> 00:47:40.680 the Holocaust campaign today 00:47:40.680 --> 00:47:41.680 and it's big enough 00:47:41.680 --> 00:47:43.930 big money 00:47:43.930 --> 00:47:45.930 big money is involved in this 00:47:45.930 --> 00:47:47.930 the American taxpayer 00:47:47.930 --> 00:47:48.930 I'm quite sure 00:47:48.930 --> 00:47:50.930 you're doing this willingly 00:47:50.930 --> 00:47:51.930 are donating between 00:47:51.930 --> 00:47:53.930 three and four billion dollars 00:47:53.930 --> 00:47:54.930 a year 00:47:54.930 --> 00:47:55.930 to the state of Israel 00:47:55.930 --> 00:47:56.930 and you do it willingly 00:47:56.930 --> 00:47:58.930 because you are guilty 00:47:58.930 --> 00:48:00.660 and your guilt 00:48:00.660 --> 00:48:01.660 is brought home to you 00:48:01.660 --> 00:48:02.660 again and again 00:48:02.660 --> 00:48:04.660 as Christian human beings 00:48:04.660 --> 00:48:06.660 by television programs 00:48:06.660 --> 00:48:07.660 which bring it home to you 00:48:07.660 --> 00:48:08.660 in a subliminal way 00:48:08.660 --> 00:48:09.660 that you are guilty 00:48:09.660 --> 00:48:10.660 of the Holocaust in some way 00:48:10.660 --> 00:48:12.660 because you are the same religion 00:48:12.660 --> 00:48:13.660 and the same religion 00:48:13.660 --> 00:48:14.660 and the same race 00:48:14.660 --> 00:48:15.660 as the Germans 00:48:15.660 --> 00:48:16.660 who carried out 00:48:16.660 --> 00:48:17.660 this Holocaust crime 00:48:17.660 --> 00:48:18.760 and so you pay the money 00:48:18.760 --> 00:48:20.760 and you don't complain 00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:21.760 and if anyone was to stand up 00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:22.760 and complain about 00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:23.760 the three or four billion dollars 00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:24.760 going that way 00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:25.760 he would be instantly accused 00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:27.760 of being anti-Semitic 00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:30.690 and the Germans are paying 00:48:30.690 --> 00:48:31.690 one billion dollars 00:48:31.690 --> 00:48:32.690 just under one billion dollars 00:48:32.690 --> 00:48:34.690 in reparations and restitution 00:48:34.690 --> 00:48:35.690 for the same reason 00:48:35.690 --> 00:48:36.690 five billion dollars a year 00:48:36.690 --> 00:48:37.690 going that way 00:48:37.690 --> 00:48:39.690 upon which that state depends 00:48:39.690 --> 00:48:41.230 and you begin to understand 00:48:41.230 --> 00:48:43.230 why they don't like me 00:48:43.230 --> 00:48:44.300 when I come along and say 00:48:44.300 --> 00:48:46.300 I've got no axe to grind 00:48:46.300 --> 00:48:47.300 which is true 00:48:47.300 --> 00:48:48.390 I'm not Jewish 00:48:48.390 --> 00:48:49.390 I'm not anti-Jewish 00:48:49.390 --> 00:48:51.390 I'm not anti-Semitic 00:48:51.390 --> 00:48:52.390 despite everything 00:48:52.390 --> 00:48:53.390 they've done to me 00:48:53.390 --> 00:48:55.390 but I am a truthful historian 00:48:55.390 --> 00:48:56.390 and I'm going to ask 00:48:56.390 --> 00:48:57.390 certain questions 00:48:57.390 --> 00:48:58.650 first question is 00:48:58.650 --> 00:48:59.650 if they killed 00:48:59.650 --> 00:49:00.650 four million people 00:49:00.650 --> 00:49:02.650 in Auschwitz concentration camp 00:49:02.650 --> 00:49:03.650 this was the original figure 00:49:03.650 --> 00:49:04.650 since we revisionists 00:49:04.650 --> 00:49:05.650 as we're called 00:49:05.650 --> 00:49:06.650 began campaigning 00:49:06.650 --> 00:49:07.650 about this four or five years ago 00:49:07.650 --> 00:49:08.650 suddenly the four million figure 00:49:08.650 --> 00:49:09.650 has been abandoned 00:49:09.650 --> 00:49:11.650 and it's now only one million 00:49:11.650 --> 00:49:12.740 it's extraordinary 00:49:12.740 --> 00:49:13.740 they wiped off 00:49:13.740 --> 00:49:14.740 three million of that figure 00:49:14.740 --> 00:49:15.740 in Auschwitz 00:49:15.740 --> 00:49:16.740 and yet the overall figure 00:49:16.740 --> 00:49:17.740 of six million 00:49:17.740 --> 00:49:18.740 hasn't changed 00:49:18.740 --> 00:49:19.900 I don't understand 00:49:19.900 --> 00:49:20.900 the mathematics 00:49:20.900 --> 00:49:21.900 I'm sure somewhere 00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:22.900 buried deep in the Talmud 00:49:22.900 --> 00:49:23.900 is a strange kind of 00:49:23.900 --> 00:49:25.900 mathematical equation 00:49:25.900 --> 00:49:26.900 which explains 00:49:26.900 --> 00:49:27.900 how you can take off 00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:28.900 three million 00:49:28.900 --> 00:49:29.900 and still end up 00:49:29.900 --> 00:49:30.900 with six million 00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:31.900 the original figure 00:49:31.900 --> 00:49:32.900 they started off with 00:49:32.900 --> 00:49:33.900 it's like one of those 00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:34.900 quiz show questions 00:49:34.900 --> 00:49:36.320 but believe me 00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:37.320 ladies and gentlemen 00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:38.320 it's a lot less than 00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:39.320 a million in Auschwitz 00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:40.320 and I'm not going to say 00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:42.320 it was only a hundred thousand Jews 00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:43.320 who were killed in Auschwitz 00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:44.320 because if even one Jew 00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:45.320 is murdered 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:46.610 that's a crime 00:49:46.610 --> 00:49:47.610 but what I am going to say 00:49:47.610 --> 00:49:48.610 is what did happen 00:49:48.610 --> 00:49:49.610 and what didn't happen 00:49:49.610 --> 00:49:50.610 and I'm only going to deal 00:49:50.610 --> 00:49:51.610 with Auschwitz 00:49:51.610 --> 00:49:52.610 because that basically 00:49:52.610 --> 00:49:53.610 is the capital ship 00:49:53.610 --> 00:49:54.610 of the whole of 00:49:54.610 --> 00:49:55.610 the Holocaust campaign 00:49:55.610 --> 00:49:56.610 if Auschwitz sinks 00:49:56.610 --> 00:49:57.610 and it is 00:49:57.610 --> 00:49:58.610 believe me 00:49:58.610 --> 00:49:59.610 a very legal vessel 00:49:59.610 --> 00:50:00.610 indeed now 00:50:00.610 --> 00:50:01.610 if Auschwitz sinks 00:50:01.610 --> 00:50:02.610 without trace 00:50:02.610 --> 00:50:03.610 then the whole of 00:50:03.610 --> 00:50:04.610 the Holocaust campaign 00:50:04.610 --> 00:50:05.640 is in doubt 00:50:05.640 --> 00:50:07.640 and open to skepticism 00:50:07.640 --> 00:50:08.640 to healthy skepticism 00:50:08.640 --> 00:50:09.640 not to vicious 00:50:09.640 --> 00:50:10.640 malignant skepticism 00:50:10.640 --> 00:50:11.640 which anti-semites 00:50:11.640 --> 00:50:12.640 might like 00:50:12.640 --> 00:50:13.640 but to the kind 00:50:13.640 --> 00:50:14.640 of healthy skepticism 00:50:14.640 --> 00:50:15.640 which any ordinary citizen 00:50:15.640 --> 00:50:16.640 is invited to show 00:50:16.640 --> 00:50:17.640 to any subject 00:50:17.640 --> 00:50:18.640 whether it's the assassination 00:50:18.640 --> 00:50:19.640 of JFK 00:50:19.640 --> 00:50:20.640 or the O.J. Simpson case 00:50:20.640 --> 00:50:22.640 or any other event 00:50:22.640 --> 00:50:23.640 which bulks large 00:50:23.640 --> 00:50:25.640 on our historical horizon 00:50:25.640 --> 00:50:27.760 if they murdered 00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:28.760 a million people 00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:29.760 in Auschwitz 00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:31.760 using poison gas 00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:33.020 why is there 00:50:33.020 --> 00:50:34.020 no trace of that gas 00:50:34.020 --> 00:50:35.020 in the buildings 00:50:35.020 --> 00:50:36.020 of Auschwitz today 00:50:36.020 --> 00:50:38.940 this is the first question 00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:39.940 and it's a very interesting 00:50:39.940 --> 00:50:41.300 question 00:50:41.300 --> 00:50:42.300 because it never occurs 00:50:42.300 --> 00:50:43.300 to me 00:50:43.300 --> 00:50:44.300 I have to admit it 00:50:44.300 --> 00:50:45.300 that you should carry out 00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:46.300 the same thing 00:50:46.300 --> 00:50:47.300 as you carry out 00:50:47.300 --> 00:50:48.300 all kinds of tests 00:50:48.300 --> 00:50:49.300 on a building 00:50:49.300 --> 00:50:50.300 that you carry out 00:50:50.300 --> 00:50:51.300 on documents 00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:52.300 as a historian 00:50:52.300 --> 00:50:53.300 you remember 00:50:53.300 --> 00:50:54.810 when the Adolf Hitler diaries 00:50:54.810 --> 00:50:55.810 first surfaced in 1983 00:50:55.810 --> 00:50:56.810 a man in Germany 00:50:56.810 --> 00:50:57.810 claimed to have found 00:50:57.810 --> 00:50:58.810 Adolf Hitler's private diaries 00:50:58.810 --> 00:50:59.810 and he earned 00:50:59.810 --> 00:51:00.810 nine million dollars 00:51:00.810 --> 00:51:01.810 from a foolish German magazine 00:51:01.810 --> 00:51:02.810 to whom he supplied 00:51:02.810 --> 00:51:03.810 these diaries 00:51:03.810 --> 00:51:04.810 at the rate of one a week 00:51:04.810 --> 00:51:05.840 because that's how long 00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:07.610 it took him to write them 00:51:07.610 --> 00:51:08.610 yes ma'am 00:51:08.610 --> 00:51:09.610 and I was the person 00:51:09.610 --> 00:51:10.610 who exposed those diaries 00:51:10.610 --> 00:51:11.610 as being fake 00:51:11.610 --> 00:51:12.610 at that magazine's 00:51:12.610 --> 00:51:13.700 press conference 00:51:13.700 --> 00:51:14.700 in April 1983 00:51:14.700 --> 00:51:15.700 but it's the obvious things 00:51:15.700 --> 00:51:16.700 that you don't spot 00:51:16.700 --> 00:51:17.700 on the paper 00:51:17.700 --> 00:51:18.700 test the ink 00:51:18.700 --> 00:51:19.700 when you write 00:51:19.700 --> 00:51:20.700 with ink 00:51:20.700 --> 00:51:21.700 fountain pen ink 00:51:21.700 --> 00:51:22.700 the ink begins to oxidize 00:51:22.700 --> 00:51:23.700 the moment it hits the air 00:51:23.700 --> 00:51:24.700 and a good laboratory 00:51:24.700 --> 00:51:25.700 can tell you 00:51:25.700 --> 00:51:26.860 a good forensic 00:51:26.860 --> 00:51:27.860 police laboratory 00:51:27.860 --> 00:51:28.860 can tell you 00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:29.860 how old a signature is 00:51:29.860 --> 00:51:31.220 above all 00:51:31.220 --> 00:51:32.220 they can tell you 00:51:32.220 --> 00:51:33.220 if the ink is ballpoint ink 00:51:33.220 --> 00:51:34.220 or regular ink 00:51:34.220 --> 00:51:35.220 fountain pen ink 00:51:35.220 --> 00:51:36.220 and I said 00:51:36.220 --> 00:51:37.220 test the ink 00:51:37.220 --> 00:51:38.220 test the paper 00:51:38.220 --> 00:51:39.220 test the glue 00:51:39.220 --> 00:51:40.220 test the string 00:51:40.220 --> 00:51:41.220 you can do all these 00:51:41.220 --> 00:51:42.220 well I mean 00:51:42.220 --> 00:51:43.220 you've been watching 00:51:43.220 --> 00:51:44.220 the television 00:51:44.220 --> 00:51:45.220 the last few weeks 00:51:45.220 --> 00:51:46.220 anyway 00:51:46.220 --> 00:51:47.220 so you know 00:51:47.220 --> 00:51:48.220 what I mean 00:51:48.220 --> 00:51:49.220 but what didn't occur 00:51:49.220 --> 00:51:50.220 to me 00:51:50.220 --> 00:51:51.220 was the fact that 00:51:51.220 --> 00:51:52.220 Adolf Hitler's diaries 00:51:52.220 --> 00:51:53.220 were stacked up 00:51:53.220 --> 00:51:54.220 in front of us 00:51:54.220 --> 00:51:55.220 in that press conference 00:51:55.220 --> 00:51:56.220 72 of them 00:51:56.220 --> 00:51:57.220 written by this man 00:51:57.220 --> 00:51:58.220 as it turned out 00:51:58.220 --> 00:51:59.220 not by Adolf Hitler 00:51:59.220 --> 00:52:00.220 but by this forger 00:52:00.220 --> 00:52:01.220 and these 72 diaries 00:52:01.220 --> 00:52:03.400 were all written 00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:04.400 in identical 00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:05.400 leather notebooks 00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:06.400 rather cheap leather notebooks 00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:07.400 that meant that 00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:08.400 that man 00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:09.400 Adolf Hitler 00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:10.400 back in about 1922 00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:11.400 had gone into his local 00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:12.400 Barnes and Noble 00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:13.400 and said 00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:14.620 I want 72 of those diaries 00:52:14.620 --> 00:52:15.620 please 00:52:15.620 --> 00:52:16.620 I'm going to write a diary 00:52:16.620 --> 00:52:17.620 and of course 00:52:17.620 --> 00:52:18.620 it isn't like that 00:52:18.620 --> 00:52:19.620 the diaries 00:52:19.620 --> 00:52:20.780 extending over the last 00:52:20.780 --> 00:52:21.780 20 or 30 years 00:52:21.780 --> 00:52:22.780 are higgledy-piggledy 00:52:22.780 --> 00:52:23.780 they come in all sorts 00:52:23.780 --> 00:52:24.780 and sorts of shapes 00:52:24.780 --> 00:52:25.780 and colors 00:52:25.780 --> 00:52:26.780 and sizes 00:52:26.780 --> 00:52:27.780 because that's the way 00:52:27.780 --> 00:52:28.780 you buy them 00:52:28.780 --> 00:52:29.780 year by year 00:52:29.780 --> 00:52:30.780 it's the obvious things 00:52:30.780 --> 00:52:31.780 you overlook 00:52:31.780 --> 00:52:32.780 and none of us 00:52:32.780 --> 00:52:33.780 none of us historians 00:52:33.780 --> 00:52:34.780 thought of demanding 00:52:34.780 --> 00:52:35.780 that there should be 00:52:35.780 --> 00:52:36.780 tests carried out 00:52:36.780 --> 00:52:37.780 on the fabric 00:52:37.780 --> 00:52:39.040 of the gas chambers 00:52:39.040 --> 00:52:40.040 at Auschwitz 00:52:40.040 --> 00:52:41.040 the buildings survived 00:52:41.040 --> 00:52:42.040 partly 00:52:42.040 --> 00:52:43.040 they're in ruins 00:52:43.040 --> 00:52:44.040 some of them 00:52:44.040 --> 00:52:45.100 others are 00:52:45.100 --> 00:52:46.100 more or less intact 00:52:46.100 --> 00:52:47.100 and eventually 00:52:47.100 --> 00:52:48.100 in 1988 00:52:48.100 --> 00:52:49.100 as part of this 00:52:49.100 --> 00:52:50.100 the defense lawyers 00:52:50.100 --> 00:52:51.100 decided to send 00:52:51.100 --> 00:52:52.100 an expert in gas chambers 00:52:52.100 --> 00:52:53.100 over to Auschwitz 00:52:53.100 --> 00:52:54.100 an expert in gas chambers 00:52:54.100 --> 00:52:55.100 you're only going to find 00:52:55.100 --> 00:52:56.100 that in the United States 00:52:56.100 --> 00:52:57.100 of course 00:52:57.100 --> 00:52:58.100 because only the United States 00:52:58.100 --> 00:53:00.100 gases people are present 00:53:00.100 --> 00:53:01.550 so this expert 00:53:01.550 --> 00:53:02.550 in gas chambers 00:53:02.550 --> 00:53:03.550 a man called 00:53:03.550 --> 00:53:04.550 Fred Leuchter 00:53:04.550 --> 00:53:05.680 was sent over 00:53:05.680 --> 00:53:06.680 to Auschwitz 00:53:06.680 --> 00:53:07.680 to test the gas chambers 00:53:07.680 --> 00:53:08.680 of the Nazi 00:53:08.680 --> 00:53:09.680 concentration camp 00:53:09.680 --> 00:53:10.680 would these gas chambers 00:53:10.680 --> 00:53:11.680 work 00:53:11.680 --> 00:53:13.580 is there any trace 00:53:13.580 --> 00:53:14.580 of their having been 00:53:14.580 --> 00:53:15.580 used as gas chambers 00:53:15.580 --> 00:53:17.580 is there any residue 00:53:17.580 --> 00:53:18.580 of cyanide gas 00:53:18.580 --> 00:53:19.580 in the walls 00:53:19.580 --> 00:53:21.860 all the obvious questions 00:53:21.860 --> 00:53:22.860 and he came back 00:53:22.860 --> 00:53:23.860 and he wrote 00:53:23.860 --> 00:53:24.860 an affidavit 00:53:24.860 --> 00:53:25.860 for the court 00:53:25.860 --> 00:53:26.860 which we eventually 00:53:26.860 --> 00:53:27.860 published as 00:53:27.860 --> 00:53:28.860 the Leuchter report 00:53:28.860 --> 00:53:29.860 photographs of the buildings 00:53:29.860 --> 00:53:30.860 photographs of the brickwork 00:53:30.860 --> 00:53:31.860 photographs 00:53:31.860 --> 00:53:32.860 the actual tests 00:53:32.860 --> 00:53:33.860 the chemical tests 00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:34.860 carried out 00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:35.860 the forensic tests 00:53:35.860 --> 00:53:36.900 carried out 00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:37.900 and the 48 samples 00:53:37.900 --> 00:53:38.900 that he brought 00:53:38.900 --> 00:53:39.900 back to the United States 00:53:39.900 --> 00:53:40.900 bits of brickwork 00:53:40.900 --> 00:53:41.900 that he took out 00:53:41.900 --> 00:53:42.900 of the walls 00:53:42.900 --> 00:53:43.900 and submitted 00:53:43.900 --> 00:53:44.900 to the forensic laboratories 00:53:44.900 --> 00:53:45.900 in Cornell University 00:53:45.900 --> 00:53:46.900 to have tests 00:53:46.900 --> 00:53:47.900 carried out 00:53:47.900 --> 00:53:49.410 and the result 00:53:49.410 --> 00:53:50.410 was that 00:53:50.410 --> 00:53:51.410 in 47 00:53:51.410 --> 00:53:52.410 of the 48 samples 00:53:52.410 --> 00:53:53.410 there wasn't 00:53:53.410 --> 00:53:54.410 the slightest 00:53:54.410 --> 00:53:55.410 significant trace 00:53:55.410 --> 00:53:56.540 of cyanide compound 00:53:56.540 --> 00:53:57.540 in the 48th sample 00:53:57.540 --> 00:53:58.540 there were colossal 00:53:58.540 --> 00:53:59.540 traces of cyanide 00:53:59.540 --> 00:54:00.540 141 milligrams 00:54:00.540 --> 00:54:01.540 of hydrogen cyanide 00:54:01.540 --> 00:54:02.540 or ferric ferrocyanide 00:54:02.540 --> 00:54:03.540 in every kilogram 00:54:03.540 --> 00:54:04.540 of brickwork 00:54:04.540 --> 00:54:05.540 and what is 00:54:05.540 --> 00:54:06.920 the explanation 00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:07.920 of that result 00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:08.920 well the answer 00:54:08.920 --> 00:54:09.920 is in that sample 00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:10.920 he had taken out 00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:11.920 of a little gas chamber 00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:12.920 that was used 00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:13.920 for disinfesting clothing 00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:14.920 killing the lice 00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:15.920 and the vermin 00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:16.920 and the prisoners 00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:17.920 clothing 00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:18.920 the clothing 00:54:18.920 --> 00:54:19.920 was stuffed 00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:20.920 into this little gas chamber 00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:21.920 and he got a steel door 00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:22.920 with a peep hole 00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:23.920 and ventilation systems 00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:24.920 and racks 00:54:24.920 --> 00:54:25.920 rather like a dry cleaners 00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:26.920 for wheeling the clothing 00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:27.920 in and out 00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:28.920 and he took that sample 00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:29.920 out of that brickwork 00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:31.920 and that's where the 00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:32.920 colossal cyanide 00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:33.920 was found 00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:34.920 it's significant 00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:35.920 because all our opponents 00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:36.920 have said 00:54:36.920 --> 00:54:38.720 you don't expect 00:54:38.720 --> 00:54:39.720 to find cyanide 00:54:39.720 --> 00:54:40.720 in the brickwork 00:54:40.720 --> 00:54:41.720 after 50 years 00:54:41.720 --> 00:54:42.720 how absurd 00:54:42.720 --> 00:54:43.720 how ludicrous 00:54:43.720 --> 00:54:44.720 after 50 years 00:54:44.720 --> 00:54:45.720 of wind and rain 00:54:45.720 --> 00:54:46.720 you're not going to find 00:54:46.720 --> 00:54:47.720 cyanide compounds 00:54:47.720 --> 00:54:48.720 residue of a gas 00:54:48.720 --> 00:54:49.720 in the brickwork 00:54:49.720 --> 00:54:50.720 and the answer is 00:54:50.720 --> 00:54:52.330 you do 00:54:52.330 --> 00:54:53.520 and the proof 00:54:53.520 --> 00:54:54.520 of that answer 00:54:54.520 --> 00:54:55.520 is first of all 00:54:55.520 --> 00:54:56.520 they did find 00:54:56.520 --> 00:54:57.520 the residue 00:54:57.520 --> 00:54:58.520 in that little gas chamber 00:54:58.520 --> 00:54:59.520 in fact the walls 00:54:59.520 --> 00:55:00.520 of that little gas chamber 00:55:00.520 --> 00:55:01.520 were so soaked 00:55:01.520 --> 00:55:02.520 in cyanide compounds 00:55:02.520 --> 00:55:03.520 that they had 00:55:03.520 --> 00:55:04.520 turned blue 00:55:04.520 --> 00:55:06.030 I've got photographs 00:55:06.030 --> 00:55:07.030 of it here 00:55:07.030 --> 00:55:08.260 of what those blue walls 00:55:08.260 --> 00:55:09.260 look like 00:55:09.260 --> 00:55:10.260 you can see here 00:55:10.260 --> 00:55:11.260 colour photographs 00:55:11.260 --> 00:55:12.260 of the little gas chamber 00:55:12.260 --> 00:55:13.260 in Auschwitz 00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:14.260 showing the blue stain 00:55:14.260 --> 00:55:15.260 on the walls 00:55:15.260 --> 00:55:16.260 where the cyanide 00:55:16.260 --> 00:55:17.260 has seeped through 00:55:17.260 --> 00:55:19.730 the brickwork 00:55:19.730 --> 00:55:20.730 forming a compound 00:55:20.730 --> 00:55:21.730 called ferric ferrocyanide 00:55:21.730 --> 00:55:22.730 which is otherwise known 00:55:22.730 --> 00:55:23.730 by the trade name 00:55:23.730 --> 00:55:24.730 Prussian blue 00:55:24.730 --> 00:55:25.730 it becomes so permanent 00:55:25.730 --> 00:55:26.730 it's actually used 00:55:26.730 --> 00:55:27.730 as a dye stuff 00:55:27.730 --> 00:55:28.730 Prussian blue 00:55:28.730 --> 00:55:29.730 or Berliner Blau 00:55:29.730 --> 00:55:32.910 and when this was denied 00:55:32.910 --> 00:55:35.100 a brave German scientist 00:55:35.100 --> 00:55:37.100 called Germar Rudolph 00:55:37.100 --> 00:55:38.100 and this is a sad story 00:55:38.100 --> 00:55:40.100 with an unhappy ending 00:55:40.100 --> 00:55:42.140 young Germar Rudolph 00:55:42.140 --> 00:55:43.140 a young 28 year old 00:55:43.140 --> 00:55:44.140 German chemist 00:55:44.140 --> 00:55:45.170 a research chemist 00:55:45.170 --> 00:55:46.170 working at the 00:55:46.170 --> 00:55:47.170 Max Planck Institute 00:55:47.170 --> 00:55:48.170 in Germany 00:55:48.170 --> 00:55:49.170 the Max Planck Institute 00:55:49.170 --> 00:55:50.170 is one of the most 00:55:50.170 --> 00:55:51.170 prestigious bodies 00:55:51.170 --> 00:55:52.170 with the kind of reputation 00:55:52.170 --> 00:55:53.170 of the National Institutes 00:55:53.170 --> 00:55:54.170 of Health 00:55:54.170 --> 00:55:55.170 here in Bethesda 00:55:55.170 --> 00:55:56.490 in Maryland 00:55:56.490 --> 00:55:57.490 he decided 00:55:57.490 --> 00:55:58.490 to write his dissertation 00:55:58.490 --> 00:55:59.490 on that one subject 00:55:59.490 --> 00:56:00.490 the permanence 00:56:00.490 --> 00:56:01.490 of cyanide compounds 00:56:01.490 --> 00:56:02.490 in brickwork 00:56:02.490 --> 00:56:03.490 and having written 00:56:03.490 --> 00:56:04.780 his dissertation 00:56:04.780 --> 00:56:05.780 he then 00:56:05.780 --> 00:56:06.780 allowed it 00:56:06.780 --> 00:56:07.780 to be circulated 00:56:07.780 --> 00:56:08.780 in printed form 00:56:08.780 --> 00:56:09.780 to 2000 German chemists 00:56:09.780 --> 00:56:10.780 professors of chemistry 00:56:10.780 --> 00:56:11.780 at universities 00:56:11.780 --> 00:56:12.780 who confirmed 00:56:12.780 --> 00:56:13.780 that what he had written 00:56:13.780 --> 00:56:14.780 was true 00:56:14.780 --> 00:56:15.780 too late 00:56:15.780 --> 00:56:16.780 the traditional enemy 00:56:16.780 --> 00:56:18.160 spotted what he did 00:56:18.160 --> 00:56:19.160 and they had him 00:56:19.160 --> 00:56:20.160 dismissed 00:56:20.160 --> 00:56:21.160 from his position 00:56:21.160 --> 00:56:22.160 at the Max Planck Institute 00:56:22.160 --> 00:56:23.160 the letters have now 00:56:23.160 --> 00:56:24.160 been published 00:56:24.160 --> 00:56:25.160 where they put pressure 00:56:25.160 --> 00:56:26.160 on the Max Planck Institute 00:56:26.160 --> 00:56:27.160 for him to be dismissed 00:56:27.160 --> 00:56:28.160 and one month ago 00:56:28.160 --> 00:56:29.450 young Germar Rudolph 00:56:29.450 --> 00:56:30.450 was sentenced 00:56:30.450 --> 00:56:31.450 by the German government 00:56:31.450 --> 00:56:32.450 to 14 months 00:56:32.450 --> 00:56:33.450 in prison 00:56:33.450 --> 00:56:34.450 for allowing 00:56:34.450 --> 00:56:35.450 his scientific report 00:56:35.450 --> 00:56:36.450 his dissertation 00:56:36.450 --> 00:56:37.450 to be published 00:56:37.450 --> 00:56:39.790 under the German laws 00:56:39.790 --> 00:56:40.790 for the suppression 00:56:40.790 --> 00:56:41.790 of free speech 00:56:41.790 --> 00:56:42.790 he had infringed 00:56:42.790 --> 00:56:43.790 against those laws 00:56:43.790 --> 00:56:44.790 and he's now been 00:56:44.790 --> 00:56:45.790 sent to prison 00:56:45.790 --> 00:56:46.790 for 14 months 00:56:46.790 --> 00:56:47.790 for allowing 00:56:47.790 --> 00:56:48.790 his chemical results 00:56:48.790 --> 00:56:49.790 to be circulated 00:56:49.790 --> 00:56:50.790 to the professors 00:56:50.790 --> 00:56:51.790 of chemistry 00:56:51.790 --> 00:56:52.860 and physics in Germany 00:56:52.860 --> 00:56:53.860 it's a horrifying thought 00:56:53.860 --> 00:56:54.860 it's all 00:56:54.860 --> 00:56:55.860 as though the wheel 00:56:55.860 --> 00:56:56.860 is coming full circle 00:56:56.860 --> 00:56:57.860 the Germans don't 00:56:57.860 --> 00:56:58.860 realize themselves 00:56:58.860 --> 00:56:59.860 unfortunately 00:56:59.860 --> 00:57:00.860 those who live in Germany 00:57:00.860 --> 00:57:01.860 because they've lived 00:57:01.860 --> 00:57:02.860 under oppressive regimes 00:57:02.860 --> 00:57:03.860 for so long 00:57:03.860 --> 00:57:04.860 since the beginning 00:57:04.860 --> 00:57:05.860 of this century 00:57:05.860 --> 00:57:06.860 they didn't realize 00:57:06.860 --> 00:57:07.860 no really no 00:57:07.860 --> 00:57:08.860 but think about it 00:57:08.860 --> 00:57:09.860 in the United States 00:57:09.860 --> 00:57:10.860 if a research chemist 00:57:10.860 --> 00:57:11.860 in the United States 00:57:11.860 --> 00:57:12.860 had published a report 00:57:12.860 --> 00:57:13.860 and then found himself 00:57:13.860 --> 00:57:14.860 being prosecuted 00:57:14.860 --> 00:57:15.860 because his scientific 00:57:15.860 --> 00:57:16.860 report came up 00:57:16.860 --> 00:57:17.860 with politically 00:57:17.860 --> 00:57:18.860 unacceptable conclusions 00:57:18.860 --> 00:57:20.720 that's what's happening 00:57:20.720 --> 00:57:21.720 in Germany every day 00:57:21.720 --> 00:57:22.750 I have been fined 00:57:22.750 --> 00:57:23.750 by the German government 00:57:23.750 --> 00:57:24.750 $22,000 00:57:24.750 --> 00:57:25.750 for saying 00:57:25.750 --> 00:57:26.750 one sentence 00:57:26.750 --> 00:57:27.750 in the name 00:57:27.750 --> 00:57:28.750 of gas 00:57:28.750 --> 00:57:29.750 in a meeting 00:57:29.750 --> 00:57:30.850 like this 00:57:30.850 --> 00:57:31.850 in Munich 00:57:31.850 --> 00:57:32.850 and the sentence 00:57:32.850 --> 00:57:33.850 that I said 00:57:33.850 --> 00:57:34.850 was the gas chamber 00:57:34.850 --> 00:57:35.850 in Auschwitz 00:57:35.850 --> 00:57:36.850 which they showed 00:57:36.850 --> 00:57:37.850 to the tourists 00:57:37.850 --> 00:57:38.850 was built 00:57:38.850 --> 00:57:39.850 by the Polish government 00:57:39.850 --> 00:57:40.850 after the war 00:57:40.850 --> 00:57:41.850 I said that 00:57:41.850 --> 00:57:42.850 at a meeting 00:57:42.850 --> 00:57:43.850 on April the 21st 00:57:43.850 --> 00:57:44.850 1991 00:57:44.850 --> 00:57:45.850 and I was fined 00:57:45.850 --> 00:57:46.850 $22,000 00:57:46.850 --> 00:57:47.850 for making 00:57:47.850 --> 00:57:48.850 that one remark 00:57:48.850 --> 00:57:50.300 as a historian 00:57:50.300 --> 00:57:51.300 to a conference 00:57:51.300 --> 00:57:52.300 like this 00:57:52.300 --> 00:57:53.300 imagine that 00:57:53.300 --> 00:57:54.300 happening 00:57:54.300 --> 00:57:55.300 in the United States 00:57:55.300 --> 00:57:56.300 a $22,000 fine 00:57:56.300 --> 00:57:57.300 for giving 00:57:57.300 --> 00:57:58.300 gas to a German 00:57:58.300 --> 00:58:04.780 who was 00:58:04.780 --> 00:58:05.780 a Nazi 00:58:05.780 --> 00:58:07.780 to be 00:58:07.780 --> 00:58:08.780 sentenced 00:58:08.780 --> 00:58:09.780 to prison 00:58:09.780 --> 00:58:10.780 for 14 months 00:58:10.780 --> 00:58:11.780 in the case 00:58:11.780 --> 00:58:13.130 of Dr. 00:58:13.130 --> 00:58:14.130 Germar Rudolph 00:58:14.130 --> 00:58:15.130 this tells us 00:58:15.130 --> 00:58:16.130 something about 00:58:16.130 --> 00:58:17.130 the quality 00:58:17.130 --> 00:58:18.160 of the legend 00:58:18.160 --> 00:58:19.160 that they're 00:58:19.160 --> 00:58:20.160 trying to protect 00:58:20.160 --> 00:58:21.160 I think 00:58:21.160 --> 00:58:22.160 and what about 00:58:22.160 --> 00:58:23.160 that statement 00:58:23.160 --> 00:58:24.160 that I made 00:58:24.160 --> 00:58:25.160 the gas chamber 00:58:25.160 --> 00:58:26.160 they show 00:58:26.160 --> 00:58:27.160 to the tourists 00:58:27.160 --> 00:58:35.760 In the court hearings, I applied to call the director of the Auschwitz State Museum as a witness, knowing that he would confirm what I said. 00:58:36.640 --> 00:58:42.240 The court would not allow us to call any witnesses or to produce any documents in our defense. 00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:49.300 They said, under German law, it is an established fact that that was a gas chamber and you are not allowed to question it. 00:58:49.620 --> 00:58:50.660 You have committed an offense. 00:58:51.460 --> 00:58:53.800 Fine, $22,000, 30,000 Deutschmarks. 00:58:53.800 --> 00:59:01.640 The amusing thing is that the biggest French magazine, L'Express, which is very similar to Newsweek or Time, 00:59:02.520 --> 00:59:10.560 the biggest French news magazine, L'Express, on January the 26th this year, published a 12-page investigation of Auschwitz on the anniversary of the camp's liberation. 00:59:11.560 --> 00:59:13.360 And they came to exactly the same conclusion. 00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:23.680 This prestigious French author, he wrote in French that he had discussed with the director of the Auschwitz Museum and with the deputy director of the Auschwitz Museum, a woman, 00:59:25.040 --> 00:59:25.760 the artifact. 00:59:25.780 --> 00:59:32.580 And he had come to the conclusion that 60% of what is now on display in Auschwitz is fake. 00:59:33.380 --> 00:59:37.840 And that in particular, the gas chamber that they showed to the tourists was never used as a gas chamber. 00:59:38.790 --> 00:59:48.190 And that the Auschwitz Museum authorities have confirmed to him that it was built in 1948, three years after the war by the Polish communists, as a display exhibit. 00:59:48.750 --> 00:59:50.130 And is totally fraudulent. 00:59:50.750 --> 00:59:52.610 To use his own words, tout est faux. 00:59:52.750 --> 00:59:53.870 Everything in it is false. 00:59:54.910 --> 00:59:56.490 So I've written to the German government. 00:59:56.650 --> 01:00:00.330 And 20,000 of my friends around the world have written the same letter to the German government. 01:00:00.450 --> 01:00:06.650 To ambassadors, consuls general, journalists in Pretoria and Melbourne and Canberra and everywhere around the world. 01:00:06.730 --> 01:00:13.250 20,000 letters saying, if L'Express has written that in January this year, is it true or is it false? 01:00:13.970 --> 01:00:22.630 If it is true that that gas chamber is a fake, built by the Poles after the war, is it now permitted to say so in Germany or is it still a criminal offense? 01:00:23.520 --> 01:00:26.760 If it is permitted to say so, then why was David Irving fined $22,000? 01:00:26.900 --> 01:00:33.040 If it is still a criminal offense, then why haven't you prosecuted the French magazine which was on sale in Germany? 01:00:34.250 --> 01:00:42.250 And the replies that have come from the German government before the German government in Bonn issued a central directive to all its ambassadors around the world not to reply to this letter. 01:00:43.290 --> 01:00:44.970 Again, an interesting admission of defeat. 01:00:46.110 --> 01:00:49.210 The replies are truly illuminating and in fact hilarious. 01:00:50.680 --> 01:00:54.200 What other evidence do we have that the Holocaust legend is leaking? 01:00:55.460 --> 01:00:57.460 Well, there are no documents. 01:00:57.740 --> 01:00:58.580 Not one. 01:00:58.700 --> 01:01:03.700 Not one single page of German wartime documents talks about gas chambers or killing people with gas. 01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:07.260 And there are people who say, but Irving, you don't expect to find any documents. 01:01:07.380 --> 01:01:10.160 The Nazis would have destroyed everything in the last weeks of the war. 01:01:11.170 --> 01:01:16.490 Well, somebody who says that is unfamiliar with the kind of chaos that exists even now in the German archives. 01:01:16.950 --> 01:01:23.860 If you go to the National Archives in Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington and see the captured German records there, they're still in disarray. 01:01:24.260 --> 01:01:28.860 The Germans in the final weeks of chaos would not have had time to meticulously... 01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:34.860 ... go through every single file and folder and document removing every document in it because even if... 01:01:35.780 --> 01:01:43.880 ... and even if every carbon copy of Hitler's headquarters had been preserved and saved and rescued from Hitler's headquarters in Poland before the Russians arrived there... 01:01:44.640 --> 01:01:49.560 ... the person at the receiving end of those orders would have received it too through its teleprinter and he would have made copies. 01:01:50.080 --> 01:01:56.360 And even if every copy of that had been destroyed, there's always some felt fable, some corporal who writes a private diary... 01:01:57.000 --> 01:01:58.580 ... or who writes a letter home to mummy... 01:01:58.580 --> 01:01:59.080 ... in which he describes his life. 01:01:59.080 --> 01:02:03.800 what they did that day. And those documents have turned up now in profusion, but there's 01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:08.640 nowhere in the private diaries or private letters of the Germans during those years 01:02:08.640 --> 01:02:15.080 not a single reference explicitly to killing people in gas chambers. There's lots of references 01:02:15.080 --> 01:02:19.220 to ugly things being done to the Jews, but the gas chambers just don't survive in the 01:02:19.220 --> 01:02:24.200 archives. And this I find significant, because I've worked in the archives, and I know what 01:02:24.200 --> 01:02:28.040 to expect and what not to expect. And I would expect to have found that by now, 50 years 01:02:28.040 --> 01:02:34.020 after. And about 20 years ago, with a $1,000 bundle of notes, I could come up with one 01:02:34.020 --> 01:02:38.600 single wartime document. I did it to Deborah Lipstadt in Atlanta a few weeks ago, who's 01:02:38.600 --> 01:02:42.340 my archenemy here in the United States. I stood up at the back of her audience, where 01:02:42.340 --> 01:02:45.520 she had delivered a speech in which she had made mincemeat of me, not knowing I was sitting 01:02:45.520 --> 01:02:49.480 in the back row. And I said, you've quoted this, and you've said you've obtained blueprints 01:02:49.480 --> 01:02:54.020 and documents of gas chambers from the Moscow archives. Here's $1,000, Mrs. Lipstadt, if 01:02:54.020 --> 01:02:57.720 you can show the audience now that blueprint you just talked about. Because you can't. 01:02:57.720 --> 01:02:58.020 You know you can't. 01:02:58.020 --> 01:03:05.000 You've lied. They've lied. And she eventually called the police to have me thrown out of 01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:06.800 the meeting. That's the only way they operate. 01:03:07.480 --> 01:03:14.750 Only people will say, not the proof that the documents didn't exist. The Germans managed 01:03:14.750 --> 01:03:19.330 to destroy every single document. They couldn't have destroyed the documents that we British 01:03:19.330 --> 01:03:25.840 had. Now, you won't know this, but 1942 and 1943, the middle years of the war, we British 01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:30.400 had developed a computer which was reading the German codes. And in those 01:03:30.420 --> 01:03:36.980 two years, 1942 and 1943, we had developed that computer to break the codes of Himmler 01:03:36.980 --> 01:03:42.160 and the SS. And in particular, we were reading every day the messages of the concentration 01:03:42.160 --> 01:03:47.600 camp commandants of the seven biggest concentration camps, including Dachau and Buchenwald and 01:03:47.600 --> 01:03:52.850 Auschwitz. And what do these signals say that Auschwitz is sending back to Berlin every 01:03:52.850 --> 01:03:56.250 day that we were reading without the Germans knowing it? Remember, they're sending this 01:03:56.250 --> 01:04:00.810 in their top secret code. So they're not concealing anything. They're sending it in their own secret 01:04:00.810 --> 01:04:04.690 code. And they have no reason to believe that we British have a computer, which didn't 01:04:04.690 --> 01:04:07.970 exist in those days. But we built the first ever computer in the world. It was as big 01:04:07.970 --> 01:04:13.530 as a house. And we were breaking the German codes with it. And the SS codes, the commandant 01:04:13.530 --> 01:04:17.870 of Auschwitz, a man called Rudolf Hirst, was reporting back to Berlin every day what he 01:04:17.870 --> 01:04:24.500 was doing in his camp. And he was giving statistics, four figures every day. The numbers of prisoners 01:04:24.500 --> 01:04:28.800 who had arrived during the previous 24 hours ending at midnight. The number of prisoners 01:04:28.800 --> 01:04:31.220 or slave laborers, if you will, who had left the camp. 01:04:31.380 --> 01:04:37.700 During the previous 24 hours. The numbers of prisoners who had, who were on hand at midnight. 01:04:37.700 --> 01:04:44.040 The total in the camp at Auschwitz. And the fourth figure was losses. Abganger. Which 01:04:44.040 --> 01:04:47.480 was correctly interpreted by British intelligence as meaning the number of prisoners who had 01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:53.420 died during the previous 24 hours in Auschwitz. A minuscule figure, which was again broken 01:04:53.420 --> 01:04:59.140 down into three categories. The number of prisoners who had died from epidemics and 01:04:59.140 --> 01:05:01.960 illness. The numbers of prisoners who had been died, 01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:08.680 who had died from, from shooting. And the number of prisoners who had died from hanging. 01:05:08.680 --> 01:05:13.080 The British official historian, Professor Sir Frank Hinsley, the master of St. John's 01:05:13.080 --> 01:05:16.920 College in Cambridge University now, the British Secret Service, who revealed these facts in 01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:20.920 an appendix to volume two, you can get it in your local library probably, at your university, 01:05:20.920 --> 01:05:27.110 of the history of the British Secret Service. He says on analyzing these Auschwitz daily 01:05:27.110 --> 01:05:32.550 telegrams that there's no doubt that most of the deaths in Auschwitz occurred through 01:05:32.550 --> 01:05:33.550 natural causes. 01:05:33.550 --> 01:05:34.430 If you could call them natural causes. If you could call them natural causes. If you could call them natural causes. If you could call them natural causes. 01:05:34.430 --> 01:05:36.990 If you could call them natural causes. If you could call them natural causes. If you could call them natural causes in a slave labor camp. 01:05:36.990 --> 01:05:45.940 Typhus in particular, starvation, hunger, overwork, old age. By far the smallest number of deaths 01:05:45.940 --> 01:05:52.080 was caused by executions, he writes. Now that is an academic historian who I trust. He has 01:05:52.080 --> 01:05:56.260 no axe to grind one way or the other. He's just reporting what he finds in this unusual 01:05:56.260 --> 01:06:01.420 source of information, the secret reports of the camp commandant himself, written in 01:06:01.420 --> 01:06:05.080 a secret code which he thought nobody else was reading but himself and the chief of the 01:06:05.080 --> 01:06:06.080 SS. 01:06:06.080 --> 01:06:11.590 conceal that he was killing hundreds of thousands of Jews every day, as is now said. How many 01:06:11.590 --> 01:06:15.410 Jews is he supposed to have killed every day? Well, the figures, you've read them, 50 or 01:06:15.410 --> 01:06:20.100 60,000 a day he was killing. But we've run up against another problem there, ladies and 01:06:20.100 --> 01:06:24.520 gentlemen, because if you're killing 50 or 60,000 people a day, be they Jews or anybody 01:06:24.520 --> 01:06:31.400 else, and if you're cremating 50 or 60,000 people a day, you need the capacity to cremate 01:06:31.400 --> 01:06:35.680 that number of people. And that's where the statistics break down, because we know exactly 01:06:35.680 --> 01:06:39.760 how many crematoria they had at Auschwitz. They had a large number. They had five or 01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:43.880 six buildings there, which weren't all operating together, but still quite a large number. 01:06:46.240 --> 01:06:51.060 And we know that if these crematoria were working throughout the period the camp was 01:06:51.060 --> 01:06:58.230 in operation, they could, working flat out, have cremated about 60 or 70,000 bodies. It's 01:06:58.230 --> 01:07:02.830 an ugly subject, but we're getting now to final totals. And we've got another figure 01:07:02.830 --> 01:07:07.230 which kicks in here, because if you're cremating 60,000 people a day, you're going to need 01:07:07.230 --> 01:07:07.670 a huge number of people. And if you're cremating 60,000 people a day, you're going to need 01:07:07.670 --> 01:07:07.690 a huge number of people. And if you're cremating 60,000 people a day, you're going to need 01:07:07.690 --> 01:07:13.970 a huge quantity of coke. We know, and any crematorium expert or manager here in downtown 01:07:13.970 --> 01:07:18.030 Cincinnati will confirm this, that if you've got a coke-operated crematorium, it takes 01:07:18.030 --> 01:07:25.850 30 or 40 or 50 kilograms of coke for each cadaver. So you're looking at a huge quantity 01:07:25.850 --> 01:07:29.450 of coke being required every day for these figures you read about in newspapers now, 01:07:29.850 --> 01:07:36.130 about 2,000 tons of coke a day. But we have aerial photographs of Auschwitz that were 01:07:36.130 --> 01:07:38.950 taken during the war, taken by American and British and South African soldiers. And we 01:07:38.950 --> 01:07:43.310 have these photographs with the planes, photographs that are so detailed, and I had them with 01:07:43.310 --> 01:07:47.330 me, photographs that are so detailed you can see the people walking around in the streets 01:07:47.330 --> 01:07:52.830 of the camp. And there's no signs of huge quantities of coke, no mountains of coke. 01:07:52.830 --> 01:07:58.480 There are no huge mass graves either, no pits, no lines of people waiting outside the gas 01:07:58.480 --> 01:08:03.740 chambers. All these legends begin to dissolve when you look at these photographs under a 01:08:03.740 --> 01:08:08.480 magnifying glass. We can be very precise about the coke, in fact, because in the Russian 01:08:08.480 --> 01:08:09.760 archives, which is a very dangerous thing to describe, there is a very crazy thing. 01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:13.360 now become available, why I've worked too in Moscow, the secret archives of the Soviet Union, 01:08:14.910 --> 01:08:19.870 they found the entire operating documents of the Auschwitz concentration camp, including the 01:08:19.870 --> 01:08:24.190 quantities of coke that were supplied for the crematoria throughout the entire period. 01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:30.880 It's a figure worth making a mental note of. 2,188 tons of coke were supplied to Auschwitz 01:08:30.880 --> 01:08:38.930 from start to finish, which is enough to cremate 70 or 80,000 bodies again. So you're coming roughly 01:08:38.930 --> 01:08:44.050 to a figure of about 100,000 bodies, which is again confirmed, oddly enough, by the Russians 01:08:44.050 --> 01:08:49.010 who released to the Western powers four years ago the death books of Auschwitz, which contain all 01:08:49.010 --> 01:08:54.560 the death certificates of everyone who died in Auschwitz. 46 bound volumes of death certificates 01:08:54.560 --> 01:09:01.320 with a total of 66,000 names. So again, you've got an order of magnitude of how many people died. 01:09:02.450 --> 01:09:08.210 And if most of those people died of natural causes and a fraction died of being executed or murder or 01:09:08.210 --> 01:09:08.710 brutality, 01:09:09.250 --> 01:09:14.610 this is still a crime. I'm not denying that. But we then come to a point, which I mentioned earlier, 01:09:14.690 --> 01:09:21.250 the innocenticide factor comes in. Because if of those 100,000 people who died in Auschwitz, 01:09:21.350 --> 01:09:27.310 even a quarter were murdered, 25,000. Remember the picture I showed you here? On the one hand, 01:09:27.410 --> 01:09:32.650 25,000 people being murdered in Auschwitz over the entire war years. And on the other hand, 01:09:33.090 --> 01:09:38.710 40,000 people being burned alive in 20 minutes. The whole world talks about the one crime, 01:09:39.070 --> 01:09:39.910 endless television. 01:09:40.070 --> 01:09:46.510 Television, movies are made about it. You're all made to feel guilty about it. The other crime is swept under the carpet as though it never happened. 01:09:47.410 --> 01:09:53.330 And when a British historian comes along and repeatedly talks about it, he's the one who finds himself being put in handcuffs and deported 01:09:53.810 --> 01:10:01.150 and hounded around the world and finding doors slammed in his face from Pretoria to Vancouver. It gives food for thought. 01:10:02.040 --> 01:10:07.840 I've only mentioned in this brief talk a very few of the facts which point in the direction that I'm talking, telling the truth. 01:10:08.400 --> 01:10:10.520 I know of no one document 01:10:10.880 --> 01:10:12.880 which operates in the other direction. 01:10:13.360 --> 01:10:16.240 I've got a lot of documents which show the Germans were very brutal. 01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:20.640 I've got a lot of documents which show the Germans massacring people on the Eastern Front. 01:10:21.420 --> 01:10:23.820 I'm not going to gainsay that for one moment. 01:10:24.620 --> 01:10:30.540 It's a question of orders of magnitude, of relativity between the crimes on the one hand and the crimes on the other. 01:10:31.180 --> 01:10:36.780 And if there's one word which is engraved on my shield as a historian, it's not just the word truth or justice, 01:10:37.220 --> 01:10:38.580 but even-handedness. 01:10:39.060 --> 01:10:40.900 I think that the time has come, 50 years, 01:10:41.220 --> 01:10:43.700 50 years after the war, to see an even-handedness. 01:10:44.580 --> 01:10:49.220 I boil with rage at the hypocrisy of other writers and other historians. 01:10:49.540 --> 01:10:52.340 I had to boil with rage at the hypocrisy of your own government sometimes. 01:10:53.100 --> 01:10:57.100 I boiled with rage at the time of the Oklahoma bombing last year, earlier this year. 01:10:57.900 --> 01:11:03.740 And I think to myself, how many Oklahomans did your government fire at Baghdad during the Gulf War? 01:11:04.380 --> 01:11:10.890 How many Oklahomans of your citizens in the northern states financed in Northern Ireland, 01:11:11.210 --> 01:11:16.870 for example, paid for the benefit of Mr. Gerry Allen, who now comes in and out of the White House? 01:11:17.430 --> 01:11:19.990 This is the kind of hypocrisy which irritates me. 01:11:21.510 --> 01:11:25.670 I like to be able to stand back and say, if this is a crime, then that was a crime. 01:11:26.230 --> 01:11:31.510 And no one is going to tell me, David Irving, to shut up, even if they bankrupt me. 01:11:32.070 --> 01:11:36.230 It began with my agent telling me all those years ago, if you don't put those 15 pages in that book, 01:11:36.230 --> 01:11:39.590 you're going to lose a million dollars in royalties over the next 10 years. 01:11:39.590 --> 01:11:40.310 And I said, 01:11:40.310 --> 01:11:41.430 forget the million dollars in royalties. 01:11:41.430 --> 01:11:43.990 I want to write a book that's going to stand up by itself, 01:11:44.550 --> 01:11:46.550 and go down in history as the one that people quote. 01:11:48.100 --> 01:11:49.940 And my family don't understand me. 01:11:50.500 --> 01:11:51.220 I know this. 01:11:51.220 --> 01:11:52.580 And a lot of people don't understand me. 01:11:52.580 --> 01:11:54.420 My publishers don't understand me. 01:11:54.420 --> 01:11:55.860 But I can sleep easy at night. 01:11:56.780 --> 01:11:59.660 I have no fear of ever being exposed as a fraud. 01:11:59.660 --> 01:12:01.660 I have no fear that someone is going to come along and say, 01:12:01.660 --> 01:12:03.260 we've got a document that proves you wrong. 01:12:03.900 --> 01:12:07.260 And oh well, suppose they do find a document that proves me wrong. 01:12:08.100 --> 01:12:12.580 I'm not going to drop it on the floor and sweep it under the carpet and pretend it's not. 01:12:12.580 --> 01:12:13.220 It doesn't exist. 01:12:13.220 --> 01:12:15.140 I'm not going to call for that man to be locked up. 01:12:15.940 --> 01:12:17.540 I'm going to shrug my shoulders and say, 01:12:17.540 --> 01:12:20.580 well, for 30 years I've given you a run for your money. 01:12:20.580 --> 01:12:21.540 I thought I was right. 01:12:21.540 --> 01:12:22.420 You've proved me wrong. 01:12:22.420 --> 01:12:22.900 Well done. 01:12:23.800 --> 01:12:25.000 But they're not going to succeed. 01:12:25.780 --> 01:12:29.940 I've got an instinct which tells me that the truth is on my side in this particular fight. 01:12:30.500 --> 01:12:32.340 It's an interesting battle, ladies and gentlemen, 01:12:32.340 --> 01:12:36.340 but I have so many friends around the world that I'm convinced that I'm going to win it. 01:12:36.340 --> 01:12:36.980 Thank you very much. 01:12:51.460 --> 01:12:52.420 Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. 01:12:53.060 --> 01:12:56.820 Just in conclusion, I mentioned one little example of my open-mindedness. 01:12:58.040 --> 01:13:01.080 The man who took the color photographs which were in the Hitler biography 01:13:01.080 --> 01:13:02.760 is a photographer called Walter Frenz. 01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:03.480 He's still alive. 01:13:04.360 --> 01:13:07.160 Eventually, when I got to know him very well, 01:13:07.160 --> 01:13:09.880 he showed me his collection of 3,000 color transparencies 01:13:09.880 --> 01:13:13.000 that he took when he was on Adolf Hitler's staff as a film cameraman. 01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:17.320 In fact, there's a picture of him earlier in the book with his film camera taking a picture. 01:13:17.320 --> 01:13:18.200 Beautiful photographs. 01:13:18.200 --> 01:13:21.320 And I used to go and visit him at Lake Constance, which is near Switzerland, as you know. 01:13:21.960 --> 01:13:23.400 And we would talk far into the night, 01:13:23.400 --> 01:13:27.320 and eventually he would describe to me how he saw a mass execution going on. 01:13:28.660 --> 01:13:30.740 Himmler, the chief of the SS, came up to him and said, 01:13:30.740 --> 01:13:33.940 Herr Frenz, it's boring here in Hitler's headquarters, isn't it? 01:13:33.940 --> 01:13:35.220 Do you want to go on an outing with me? 01:13:35.220 --> 01:13:36.580 And Frenz said, sure. 01:13:36.580 --> 01:13:39.060 And Himmler says, well, we're off to the Eastern Front for three days. 01:13:39.060 --> 01:13:43.140 And for three days, they toured the Russian Front, visiting SS units and police units. 01:13:44.200 --> 01:13:47.960 And Frenz has told me the same story over the last 15 years two or three times, 01:13:47.960 --> 01:13:50.120 and he adds more and more details each time he tells me, 01:13:50.120 --> 01:13:53.880 you know, the way the memory remembers things that he didn't really want to say before. 01:13:54.730 --> 01:13:58.250 And he said, one evening as we're drinking, Himmler says to me, Herr Frenz, 01:13:58.250 --> 01:14:01.450 tomorrow morning I'm going to go and witness a mass execution. 01:14:01.450 --> 01:14:02.650 Do you want to come along? 01:14:02.650 --> 01:14:07.100 Now, I've got to admit, this is where the German mentality 01:14:07.100 --> 01:14:09.020 and the English mentality obviously diverge. 01:14:09.660 --> 01:14:13.180 If somebody said to me, Mr. Irving, tomorrow I'm going to go and witness a mass execution, 01:14:13.180 --> 01:14:14.060 do you want to come along? 01:14:14.060 --> 01:14:16.380 I would find something else to do that morning. 01:14:16.380 --> 01:14:16.940 Believe me. 01:14:17.580 --> 01:14:18.540 I'd look at my watch. 01:14:18.540 --> 01:14:21.100 I'd say, well, my timetable's rather crowded. 01:14:21.100 --> 01:14:23.420 Thanks for the invitation, but can I give a rain check on him? 01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:28.840 Frenz said, clicked his heels and said, Herr Reichsführer, I'd be delighted to come along. 01:14:29.400 --> 01:14:30.440 And he finds himself. 01:14:30.520 --> 01:14:35.030 At 7 or 8 next morning, standing on the edge of a field, the way you've imagined it, 01:14:35.830 --> 01:14:39.030 a large, windswept, desolate field somewhere outside Minsk. 01:14:39.030 --> 01:14:40.310 It was August 1941. 01:14:40.310 --> 01:14:41.670 We've located it now. 01:14:41.670 --> 01:14:43.030 We know exactly what day it was. 01:14:43.750 --> 01:14:47.750 Watching as truckloads of civilians have driven up to pits on the far side of the field, 01:14:48.470 --> 01:14:51.750 being unloaded from these trucks, forced to line up, 01:14:52.390 --> 01:14:55.750 forced to take off all their valuable clothes and their valuables and put them in boxes 01:14:55.750 --> 01:14:59.430 and then stand up in a line against the edge of a pit and be machine gunned into this pit. 01:15:00.070 --> 01:15:00.550 And he watched. 01:15:00.550 --> 01:15:01.350 He watches it for an hour. 01:15:02.580 --> 01:15:06.420 And he describes, he's telling me the story at 2 o'clock in the morning over a bottle of 01:15:06.420 --> 01:15:07.300 rather fine wine. 01:15:07.300 --> 01:15:14.860 And his wife, who is listening, round-eyed, this is back in about 1980, 1975, she says, 01:15:14.860 --> 01:15:16.700 Walter, you never told me this. 01:15:19.110 --> 01:15:20.310 And he's rather embarrassed. 01:15:20.310 --> 01:15:23.510 He's obviously, the Germans say, . 01:15:23.510 --> 01:15:26.150 He's let his mouth, he's running off his mouth a bit. 01:15:28.140 --> 01:15:32.940 And his wife says, Walter, were there women and children there being killed as well? 01:15:33.820 --> 01:15:36.580 And he says, I can't remember. 01:15:36.580 --> 01:15:37.620 And you know he can remember. 01:15:39.370 --> 01:15:40.970 You see, I got these people to talk to me. 01:15:42.740 --> 01:15:46.740 Hitler's private secretary, a dear old lady who died 10 years ago, 01:15:47.300 --> 01:15:51.620 she was his secretary for 12 years from 1933 until one week before he committed suicide. 01:15:51.620 --> 01:15:54.180 She was with him in the bunker in Berlin, Christa Schroeder. 01:15:55.270 --> 01:15:59.910 She became so close to me as I worked on her that she actually gave me the only 01:16:00.630 --> 01:16:02.790 self-portrait that Hitler sketched of himself. 01:16:02.790 --> 01:16:04.390 I have it in the car outside. 01:16:04.390 --> 01:16:06.070 A very valuable piece of paper. 01:16:07.860 --> 01:16:10.980 She said, you know, I think you're wrong about Hitler and the Jews. 01:16:10.980 --> 01:16:14.740 This is again like 3 in the morning, a conversation over tea or wine. 01:16:14.740 --> 01:16:19.540 I think you're wrong about the chief, she called him, the chief and the Jews. 01:16:19.540 --> 01:16:20.180 Or A.H. 01:16:20.180 --> 01:16:21.380 She called him A.H. as well. 01:16:22.660 --> 01:16:24.100 A.H. could be very cruel. 01:16:26.090 --> 01:16:32.460 And knowing the way with Christa Schroeder to get her to talk was to play her like a fish, 01:16:33.260 --> 01:16:38.940 not to tug, but just reel out a bit of line, I said, well, what do you mean? 01:16:39.740 --> 01:16:42.380 She said, I was with him on the Night of the Long Knives. 01:16:43.740 --> 01:16:49.100 Now, the Night of the Long Knives in history was in June 1934, a year after Hitler came to power 01:16:49.100 --> 01:16:54.940 when he decided to liquidate all his senior rivals in the Nazi party, the brown shirts, 01:16:54.940 --> 01:16:56.860 Ernst Röhm and a dozen others. 01:16:56.860 --> 01:16:59.020 In fact, it was 84 people who were finally murdered that night. 01:17:00.200 --> 01:17:03.240 She said, I was in Berlin and I got a telephone call from A.H. 01:17:03.240 --> 01:17:06.040 He wanted me to fly his trade over to join him in Bad Godesberg. 01:17:06.040 --> 01:17:06.840 He needed me. 01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:07.560 He needed him. 01:17:07.560 --> 01:17:09.480 He needed the secretaries not to dictate to him. 01:17:09.480 --> 01:17:09.880 But he needed me. 01:17:09.880 --> 01:17:10.920 He needed them to talk to. 01:17:11.740 --> 01:17:13.100 He needed human company. 01:17:13.980 --> 01:17:18.060 And they flew down that night from the Rhine city of Bad Godesberg down to Munich, 01:17:18.620 --> 01:17:23.500 and they climbed into those big Mercedes open limousines and drove out to a town on the outskirts 01:17:23.500 --> 01:17:23.980 of Munich. 01:17:24.730 --> 01:17:25.610 She described all this. 01:17:25.610 --> 01:17:27.850 She said she was with him when he went into the hotel. 01:17:27.850 --> 01:17:32.650 He arrested all his rivals, had them taken away by the SS, and they were shot later that day 01:17:32.650 --> 01:17:35.130 in the prison at Stadelheim, just lined up against the wall and shot. 01:17:35.130 --> 01:17:37.450 It was the first bloody massacre of the Nazi regime. 01:17:38.550 --> 01:17:40.550 And she said later on that afternoon, they flew back. 01:17:40.550 --> 01:17:43.350 They flew back to Berlin, and Hitler was obviously exhausted by the day's events. 01:17:44.470 --> 01:17:49.930 When they got back to Berlin, the German capital, Hitler vanished into his chancellery, 01:17:49.930 --> 01:17:52.010 into his building, like the White House. 01:17:52.950 --> 01:17:55.430 He vanished into his chancellery, and she didn't see him for an hour. 01:17:55.990 --> 01:18:00.630 She said, Mr. Irving, I went down into the cafeteria by myself, and I ordered dinner. 01:18:01.580 --> 01:18:04.780 The chief and I, we were both vegetarians, and I knew he had eventually come down. 01:18:04.780 --> 01:18:09.100 And after about an hour, he showed up, and he stood in the door buttoning up his jacket, 01:18:09.100 --> 01:18:09.580 and he said, 01:18:09.580 --> 01:18:10.780 So, Fräulein Schröder, 01:18:10.780 --> 01:18:11.340 So, Fräulein Schröder, 01:18:12.250 --> 01:18:18.090 now I have had a bath, and I feel as clean as a newborn babe again. 01:18:20.150 --> 01:18:22.310 She told me that, I suppose, 15 years ago. 01:18:22.870 --> 01:18:26.150 40 years probably had passed since she heard him say those words. 01:18:26.150 --> 01:18:28.390 She'd never spoken them to anybody else, 01:18:28.390 --> 01:18:31.590 but those words had drifted around in her memory for 40 years, 01:18:31.590 --> 01:18:35.110 and she had longed to tell somebody this telling sentence, 01:18:35.110 --> 01:18:38.470 what the chief had said to her after killing his closest friends and rivals. 01:18:39.190 --> 01:18:42.230 I've had a bath, and I'm as clean as a newborn babe again. 01:18:42.230 --> 01:18:43.350 A sentence that, really, 01:18:43.430 --> 01:18:45.670 says it all about him and about quite a lot of people. 01:18:45.670 --> 01:18:49.350 You get the impression that O.J. Simpson had a bath and felt as clean as a newborn, 01:18:49.350 --> 01:18:51.270 but not that I want to prejudge his guilt. 01:18:52.470 --> 01:18:53.510 But there we are. 01:18:53.510 --> 01:18:55.510 We'll have a 15-minute break, ladies and gentlemen, 01:18:55.510 --> 01:18:57.670 and then those of you who have stamina will have a discussion afterwards. 01:18:57.670 --> 01:18:58.790 There's coffee at the back. Thank you. 01:19:06.360 --> 01:19:10.280 Is there not also a parallel, not only between the crimes that the Allies committed as such, 01:19:10.280 --> 01:19:11.960 and the crimes that the Nazis committed? 01:19:11.960 --> 01:19:13.640 I didn't mention the Soviet Union, of course. 01:19:13.640 --> 01:19:20.470 Well, the Soviet Union was one of the Allies, but I suppose the statistics are so enormous, 01:19:20.470 --> 01:19:22.150 that people don't seem to be able to grasp them, 01:19:22.150 --> 01:19:25.910 the number of people who died under Stalin's rule of terror. 01:19:25.910 --> 01:19:28.550 I remember when I was very, very small, at that age, 01:19:28.550 --> 01:19:32.950 when you start standing up on your hind legs and groping along the bookshelves of your father's 01:19:32.950 --> 01:19:40.010 books, finding a book called The Red Terror, and a book next to it in the bookshelves called 01:19:40.010 --> 01:19:40.730 The Cheka. 01:19:41.530 --> 01:19:45.500 These were two books about the Russian secret police, 01:19:46.410 --> 01:19:51.210 and how they dealt with their opponents in the years after World War I and after the October 01:19:51.210 --> 01:19:51.690 Revolution. 01:19:52.650 --> 01:20:00.170 And I devoured them, those books, and they left indelible pictures impregnated on my mind 01:20:01.050 --> 01:20:06.420 of massacre and of murder and of atrocity, horrifying pictures. 01:20:06.420 --> 01:20:10.980 I mean, I've got some word images still engraved on my mind just from reading those two books. 01:20:12.120 --> 01:20:19.690 And then when I married a Spanish woman in 1959, we then found out a great deal about 01:20:19.690 --> 01:20:21.930 how the Communists had behaved in the Spanish Civil War. 01:20:23.030 --> 01:20:26.790 Including coming to take away her father and execute him in the courtyard, 01:20:26.790 --> 01:20:31.750 but they got the wrong one by mistake and they took his brother away and executed him instead. 01:20:33.110 --> 01:20:36.330 And so I was brought up in the right school. 01:20:36.330 --> 01:20:37.930 I knew everything that the Communists had done. 01:20:39.260 --> 01:20:48.440 And one book I wrote in about 1975 was, as Rick mentioned, the history of the Hungarian 01:20:48.440 --> 01:20:53.810 uprising of 1956 against the Communist occupation of Hungary, for which I had access to a set of 01:20:53.830 --> 01:20:58.530 CIA files, which were very interesting because the CIA carried out in-depth psychological 01:20:58.530 --> 01:21:04.130 interrogations of a large number of the Hungarian refugees who came to this country after 1956. 01:21:05.230 --> 01:21:10.400 And there was no doubt in my mind, a very interesting discovery indeed, which I wasn't 01:21:10.400 --> 01:21:12.400 aware of until I began investigating that. 01:21:12.400 --> 01:21:13.480 I didn't realize this. 01:21:13.480 --> 01:21:18.680 The reason I began writing a book about the Hungarian uprising was entirely irrelevant. 01:21:18.680 --> 01:21:22.240 I decided to write a book about something other than Hitler and the Third Reich, just 01:21:22.240 --> 01:21:23.520 to show that I wasn't in a rut. 01:21:24.860 --> 01:21:29.740 But the odd thing was that when I began writing that book, I discovered from the CIA files 01:21:29.740 --> 01:21:34.860 that the Hungarian people, when they started that uprising, it began as an anti-Jewish pogrom. 01:21:36.710 --> 01:21:41.030 It was essentially an anti-Jewish revolution and not an anti-Communist revolution to begin 01:21:41.030 --> 01:21:42.150 with for the first few days. 01:21:42.950 --> 01:21:47.910 The Hungarian people regarded their government in the 1950s as being a Jewish government, 01:21:48.730 --> 01:21:53.290 and they regarded the secret police, the dreaded Alam Védelmi Hátoság, the AVH, 01:21:53.850 --> 01:21:55.610 as being a Jewish secret police. 01:21:56.010 --> 01:22:01.170 And essentially it was, because when the Red Army entered Hungary in 1945, they brought 01:22:01.170 --> 01:22:05.590 back into Hungary all the Jews who had taken refuge in the Soviet Union, and they were 01:22:05.590 --> 01:22:09.290 the ones who got the plum jobs, and they were the ones who got the trustworthy jobs as secret 01:22:09.290 --> 01:22:11.130 police chiefs and as torturers. 01:22:11.130 --> 01:22:15.510 And that's why the Jews were so hated in Hungary by 1956, because they were regarded 01:22:15.510 --> 01:22:20.760 as the people who had inflicted this nameless misery on the Hungarian people. 01:22:20.760 --> 01:22:23.400 And so the uprising began as an anti-Jewish uprising. 01:22:26.040 --> 01:22:31.320 At that time, in 1956, Rákosi and Farkas and Gero and the rest of the Hungarian leaders, 01:22:31.320 --> 01:22:32.040 they were all Jews. 01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:34.520 And I never realized that when I set out to write it. 01:22:34.520 --> 01:22:38.760 It's an extraordinary fact, the way these things are kept away from the public consciousness. 01:22:40.730 --> 01:22:45.450 And of course, inevitably, when the book came out, I was accused of anti-Semitism for having 01:22:45.450 --> 01:22:45.770 written it. 01:22:45.770 --> 01:22:48.650 But what am I supposed to do when you discover something as a historian? 01:22:49.210 --> 01:22:51.370 Are you supposed to try and pretend it isn't that? 01:22:52.280 --> 01:22:55.800 And if you do pretend it isn't that, you're doing the Jewish people more harm than good, 01:22:56.520 --> 01:22:56.920 I think. 01:22:58.260 --> 01:23:03.540 I delivered a lecture in Shreveport, in Louisiana, about six months ago. 01:23:03.540 --> 01:23:08.340 And on this occasion, the audience was about as large as this, but half the audience had 01:23:08.340 --> 01:23:10.500 been taken over by the local Jewish community. 01:23:10.500 --> 01:23:15.860 And they decided to wreck my meeting by barracking and by interrupting and by being thoroughly 01:23:15.860 --> 01:23:16.500 obnoxious. 01:23:17.300 --> 01:23:21.300 And after an hour of this, with the rest of the audience getting very restless at the 01:23:21.300 --> 01:23:26.250 way they were not being permitted to hear me deliver my lecture, I then said to the 01:23:26.250 --> 01:23:28.410 leader of the Jewish community who was attacking me, 01:23:30.150 --> 01:23:32.550 I said, it just came to me like this. 01:23:33.110 --> 01:23:37.190 I said, I look at myself in the mirror in the mornings, and I know that I'm disliked. 01:23:37.940 --> 01:23:40.420 I've been called disliked by reviewers in England. 01:23:40.420 --> 01:23:44.970 The Sunday Times called me the most disliked historian in Britain, which caused me to write 01:23:44.970 --> 01:23:48.730 a letter to the Sunday Times saying, is it the historian's duty to be liked, therefore? 01:23:49.290 --> 01:23:52.010 And how do you know that I'm the most disliked historian in Britain? 01:23:52.010 --> 01:23:56.330 Do you stand in Oxford Street with a clipboard asking people, what do you think about historians? 01:23:56.330 --> 01:23:57.290 How do you rate David? 01:23:57.290 --> 01:23:58.330 Oh, he's most disliked. 01:23:59.480 --> 01:24:05.560 I know I said to this Jewish mob in my audience that I am disliked, and I know why I'm disliked. 01:24:06.580 --> 01:24:09.380 Now, you people have been disliked for 3,000 years. 01:24:09.380 --> 01:24:12.820 Do you ever look in the mirror and ask yourselves why you are disliked? 01:24:13.460 --> 01:24:14.500 That might be very... 01:24:14.500 --> 01:24:18.100 No, I didn't mean it in an offensive way. 01:24:18.100 --> 01:24:24.020 I meant it as a helpful, self-analytical way, the way that the communists, the Marxist-Leninists 01:24:24.020 --> 01:24:26.740 advised to self-criticize and self-analyze. 01:24:26.740 --> 01:24:28.900 Have you ever analyzed yourselves as race? 01:24:29.540 --> 01:24:33.860 And said to yourselves, we have been hounded and persecuted and harried and massacred for 01:24:33.860 --> 01:24:35.300 3,000 years. 01:24:35.300 --> 01:24:35.860 Why us? 01:24:38.700 --> 01:24:40.940 They never ask themselves that question, do they? 01:24:41.900 --> 01:24:42.860 They never ask them this. 01:24:42.860 --> 01:24:46.620 They come along and they harry and persecute others, and they behave in a thoroughly obnoxious 01:24:46.620 --> 01:24:48.380 way, as I probably behave in their eyes. 01:24:49.020 --> 01:24:52.060 But they never ask themselves why, and they never cure their own faults. 01:24:52.780 --> 01:24:57.020 The leader of this faction in the audience stood up furiously. 01:24:57.660 --> 01:25:01.420 From his accent, I could tell not only that he came from England, but from London, and 01:25:01.420 --> 01:25:05.100 from his accent, in fact, I could tell from which corner of London he came from, because 01:25:05.100 --> 01:25:07.340 England, our accents are like that. 01:25:07.340 --> 01:25:08.780 We're very class conscious in England. 01:25:08.780 --> 01:25:12.860 We can tell what class somebody is by their accent, and we can tell which street almost 01:25:12.860 --> 01:25:13.420 they come from. 01:25:13.420 --> 01:25:15.740 If you've seen My Fair Lady, you'll know this. 01:25:16.380 --> 01:25:18.300 And I said, you come from Collindale, don't you? 01:25:18.300 --> 01:25:19.900 And he said, how do you know that? 01:25:19.900 --> 01:25:21.580 I said, your accent gives you away. 01:25:22.470 --> 01:25:24.630 And he was the leader of the gang. 01:25:24.630 --> 01:25:26.710 And he said, are you accusing us? 01:25:26.710 --> 01:25:30.070 Are you saying that we are responsible for Auschwitz ourselves? 01:25:30.070 --> 01:25:34.620 And it's a bit of a dazzling question. 01:25:34.620 --> 01:25:39.690 And when you think about it, I said, well, the short answer is yes. 01:25:41.690 --> 01:25:46.650 But that's a cruel answer, because to do the question justice, you've got to have a lot 01:25:46.650 --> 01:25:48.890 of intervening stages, of course. 01:25:48.890 --> 01:25:51.690 But the short answer, if you want to hop from A to Z, is yes. 01:25:52.890 --> 01:25:57.610 If you hadn't behaved the way you have as a race for 3,000 years, first the Russians, 01:25:57.610 --> 01:26:01.050 then the Poles, then the Galicians, then the Austrians, and the rest, wouldn't have harried 01:26:01.050 --> 01:26:02.490 and hounded you from pillar to post. 01:26:02.490 --> 01:26:03.370 So you end up finding yourself in the same situation. 01:26:03.370 --> 01:26:04.970 You end up finding yourselves in Auschwitz. 01:26:04.970 --> 01:26:06.810 And you've never asked yourselves why. 01:26:09.210 --> 01:26:10.810 And they still don't want to accept that. 01:26:11.370 --> 01:26:15.820 To him, that question and my answer was unacceptable. 01:26:16.460 --> 01:26:19.900 In Germany, it would no doubt have been grounds for another $22,000 fine. 01:26:19.900 --> 01:26:22.380 In Canada, I would have probably found myself in handcuffs again. 01:26:24.300 --> 01:26:26.540 But I don't think it was an anti-Semitic answer. 01:26:26.540 --> 01:26:30.300 It was an attempt to be helpful in a kind of psychiatrist couch way. 01:26:30.300 --> 01:26:31.340 Analyze yourself. 01:26:31.900 --> 01:26:33.980 Cast out the moat from thine own eye. 01:26:37.270 --> 01:26:39.910 Yes, a question. 01:26:39.990 --> 01:26:40.980 Yes. 01:26:40.980 --> 01:26:45.690 I'm very interested in the DEF camps and Operation Keelhaul. 01:26:45.690 --> 01:26:48.010 Do you have a particular knowledge on that? 01:26:50.970 --> 01:26:52.250 Operation Keelhaul. 01:26:54.520 --> 01:26:57.000 You're going to have to remind me what Operation Keelhaul was. 01:26:57.000 --> 01:26:58.120 I know the code word, but... 01:26:58.680 --> 01:27:01.400 That was the repatriation of the Russian citizens. 01:27:01.400 --> 01:27:01.960 Oh, yes. 01:27:01.960 --> 01:27:02.520 That's right. 01:27:03.560 --> 01:27:04.120 Tolstoy. 01:27:05.160 --> 01:27:06.440 Nicholas Tolstoy's book. 01:27:06.440 --> 01:27:07.320 And Harold McMillan. 01:27:10.550 --> 01:27:14.570 At the end of World War II, there was a lot of tidying up to be done. 01:27:14.570 --> 01:27:17.370 A lot of people found themselves on the wrong sides of the frontiers. 01:27:18.330 --> 01:27:25.130 In British prison camps, we had large numbers of Russian soldiers in German uniforms who 01:27:25.130 --> 01:27:26.810 had fought on the German side. 01:27:26.810 --> 01:27:28.890 We had British soldiers in German uniforms. 01:27:29.450 --> 01:27:32.650 There were Yugoslavs who had fought against Yugoslav. 01:27:32.650 --> 01:27:36.330 There were people who found themselves on the wrong sides of the lines as they crystallized 01:27:36.330 --> 01:27:37.450 at the end of World War II. 01:27:38.010 --> 01:27:40.170 And the question arose, what to do with these people? 01:27:40.950 --> 01:27:44.630 Well, Stalin had a certain leverage, because he claimed 01:27:44.630 --> 01:27:49.190 to hold numbers of Allied prisoners, or Allied troops, on his side of the lines that he 01:27:49.190 --> 01:27:52.230 had found in German camps that had been overrun by the Red Army. 01:27:52.230 --> 01:27:55.990 And he made it known that he wasn't going to let them go home to the United States and 01:27:55.990 --> 01:28:02.070 Britain unless we turned over to the Soviet Union and to Yugoslavia the peoples that they 01:28:02.070 --> 01:28:06.550 wanted, like the Cossacks, like the Vlasov troops who had fought in... 01:28:07.190 --> 01:28:09.350 Russian troops who had fought on the German side. 01:28:10.360 --> 01:28:14.840 And so we took the ignominious step of hoping nobody was going to kill us. 01:28:14.840 --> 01:28:18.600 Nobody would notice that we were quietly sweeping these people over the frontier into 01:28:18.600 --> 01:28:24.200 the Russian hands, or into the hands of Marshal Tito, knowing that they were going to be liquidated 01:28:24.200 --> 01:28:25.160 as soon as they arrived. 01:28:26.220 --> 01:28:32.070 Harold McMillan, who was at that time a relatively lowly officer in the British Army, was part 01:28:32.070 --> 01:28:32.950 of that operation. 01:28:34.060 --> 01:28:37.660 It's something that nobody can be proud of, but I think you have to show a certain degree 01:28:37.660 --> 01:28:43.560 of humanity for the people who took those cruel decisions, rotten decisions, and say 01:28:43.560 --> 01:28:45.080 that they had been misinformed. 01:28:45.640 --> 01:28:49.720 You have to admit to believe that by taking these ignominious steps they were saving the 01:28:49.720 --> 01:28:56.180 lives of British or American soldiers who were in Russian or Yugoslav hands, and also 01:28:56.180 --> 01:29:00.740 you have to take into account something which is too easily forgotten years later, and this 01:29:00.740 --> 01:29:04.710 is the climate of opinion at that time. 01:29:05.510 --> 01:29:09.510 When you wonder how a German soldier can point a machine gun at helpless women and children 01:29:09.510 --> 01:29:14.710 standing on the edge of a pit, you can't do it unless if you regard it in vacuo. 01:29:14.710 --> 01:29:19.270 You can only begin to understand that man's mentality if you think yourself back to the 01:29:19.270 --> 01:29:24.630 climate of 1942 or 1943 and say to yourself, this man has probably been through the streets 01:29:24.630 --> 01:29:28.790 of Berlin or of Pforzheim or some other German town and seen what the Allies have done to 01:29:28.790 --> 01:29:33.030 his civilians, and a climate of brutality and barbarism arises. 01:29:33.750 --> 01:29:39.050 And that climate of brutality and barbarism doesn't suddenly end when the war ends, like 01:29:39.050 --> 01:29:40.250 switching off a TV set. 01:29:41.690 --> 01:29:45.210 It lingers over for months and for years later. 01:29:46.070 --> 01:29:49.830 It provides a climate which makes it possible to hold trials like the Nuremberg trial. 01:29:50.660 --> 01:29:54.660 It provides a climate which makes it possible even now, 50 years later, for Hollywood still 01:29:54.660 --> 01:30:00.340 to be churning out films of hatred against the Germans, although in their entire existence 01:30:01.140 --> 01:30:09.180 the Nazi filmmakers made only three anti-Jewish films, the film Jude Zeus, the film Der ewige 01:30:09.180 --> 01:30:12.220 Jude, The Eternal Jew, and a film about the Rothschilds. 01:30:12.220 --> 01:30:16.300 Only three films were made by Dr. Goebbels and the Nazi film industry about 01:30:16.940 --> 01:30:23.260 the Jews, and yet Hollywood has retaliated with tens of thousands of anti-German films 01:30:23.260 --> 01:30:26.540 over the last 50 years, because the climate of hatred is still lingering on. 01:30:46.150 --> 01:30:49.190 What's my best estimate on how many Jews were exterminated or killed? 01:30:51.160 --> 01:30:56.440 It's an interesting question, and only recently, in the last month, the leading Jewish magazine in 01:30:56.440 --> 01:31:01.960 England called Searchlight, which is a communist operation, has headlined an article saying, 01:31:01.960 --> 01:31:04.040 David Irving now admits the Nazis killed four men. 01:31:04.360 --> 01:31:05.720 I don't think there's anything like that. 01:31:05.720 --> 01:31:10.680 The only question I can ask is, if the Nazis killed four million Jews, and this is a misquotation 01:31:10.680 --> 01:31:15.320 of what I said on a live Australian radio broadcast two months ago, when Australian 01:31:15.320 --> 01:31:19.480 radio did a live interview with me, and the Australian radio asked me the same question. 01:31:20.280 --> 01:31:29.000 And I said, from all causes during the entire period of the Nazi regime, from 1933 to 1945, 01:31:29.000 --> 01:31:33.400 I would estimate that up to four million Jews will have died from all causes, 01:31:33.400 --> 01:31:43.070 epidemics, being worked to death, dying of natural causes, everything else. But this 01:31:43.070 --> 01:31:49.070 magazine turned it around as though I had now recanted and was saying that the Nazis 01:31:49.070 --> 01:31:54.170 had killed four million. To answer your question, if we look just at the case of Auschwitz, 01:31:54.170 --> 01:31:59.170 I think probably as many as 100,000 Jews died in Auschwitz, which was a brutal slave labor 01:31:59.170 --> 01:32:04.170 camp where they had no business to be. The fact that they died in that camp of natural 01:32:04.170 --> 01:32:10.170 causes, in quotation marks, epidemics, mostly typhus, is neither here nor there. Of those 01:32:10.170 --> 01:32:18.300 100,000, probably about 10,000 were actually physically murdered in the criminal sense. 01:32:18.300 --> 01:32:24.620 The rest died, they fell by the wayside in Auschwitz. Machine guns in the pits behind 01:32:24.620 --> 01:32:29.620 the Eastern Front, in Auschwitz we're talking about primarily Western European Jews and 01:32:29.620 --> 01:32:35.620 Jews from Hungary, France, Holland and the other countries where they were rounded up. 01:32:35.620 --> 01:32:41.100 And of course it raises the logical question, if you're going to kill them and you round 01:32:41.100 --> 01:32:44.100 them up in France and all these other countries, why ship them all the way across Europe and 01:32:44.100 --> 01:32:49.420 then kill them when they arrive? It doesn't make sense. It's a logical question. The Eastern 01:32:49.420 --> 01:32:54.420 European Jews, the Russian Jews who were murdered in the pits, shot into pits, you can do a 01:32:54.420 --> 01:32:59.420 few quantitative analyses there of how many people were killed and isolated. Don't believe 01:32:59.420 --> 01:33:00.420 the documents. 01:33:00.420 --> 01:33:05.420 Because an SS Einsatzgruppenkommander, a task force commander, writes a report to Berlin 01:33:05.420 --> 01:33:11.420 saying we have in the last month murdered 360,000 Jews. Don't believe that. It was their 01:33:11.420 --> 01:33:17.480 duty to inflate figures. They wanted to create big figures. They wanted body counts rather 01:33:17.480 --> 01:33:23.480 like the Vietnam War. So those figures are unreliable. In fact that's been shown as early 01:33:23.480 --> 01:33:29.480 as the Manstein trial of the 1940s when the defendant, the lawyers defending Field Marshal 01:33:29.480 --> 01:33:33.480 Manstein, examined these documents and said here's this Einsatzkommando which claims to 01:33:33.480 --> 01:33:39.480 have killed 300,000 Jews in one month and yet all they had was 30 men and two three-ton 01:33:39.480 --> 01:33:43.480 pickup trucks. How could they have transported all these people around? Obvious questions, 01:33:43.480 --> 01:33:46.150 you see. 01:33:46.150 --> 01:33:51.150 I think probably on the Eastern Front up to two or three hundred thousand Jews from Minsk 01:33:51.150 --> 01:33:56.150 and the other big cities will have been rounded up and liquidated. Not just by the Germans, 01:33:56.150 --> 01:33:59.150 primarily by the Ukrainians and by the native Jews. 01:33:59.150 --> 01:34:05.150 The local population themselves who had scores to settle. Again, this is politically incorrect 01:34:05.150 --> 01:34:13.310 to mention this, but in Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania in particular, the local population 01:34:13.310 --> 01:34:18.310 had bitter scores to settle with the Jews because during the one year when those countries 01:34:18.310 --> 01:34:23.310 were occupied from 1940 to 1941 under the Hitler-Stalin pact, they were occupied by 01:34:23.310 --> 01:34:29.410 the Soviet Union, the NKVD, which was the secret police, the forerunner of the KGB, had 01:34:29.410 --> 01:34:34.410 occupied those three countries with a reign of terror and using largely Jewish officers 01:34:34.410 --> 01:34:39.410 because the KGB or the NKVD was largely Jewish officers at that time, they had carried out 01:34:39.410 --> 01:34:45.410 a rule of liquidation and purge in those three countries, murdering hundreds of thousands 01:34:45.410 --> 01:34:52.410 of local middle-class entrepreneur. The priests, the businessmen, the intellectuals were rounded 01:34:52.410 --> 01:34:57.410 up, driven off a dead of night by the communists, by these Jewish organizations and murdered. 01:34:57.410 --> 01:35:01.470 And a year later, when Hitler's armies invaded and marched through these countries, they 01:35:01.470 --> 01:35:06.470 found the local population busy solving the Jewish problem for them, taking revenge. Nobody 01:35:06.470 --> 01:35:10.470 likes talking about that now, but if you read the records, particularly the German military 01:35:10.470 --> 01:35:14.470 records, where reports are coming to Hitler's headquarters saying, when we arrived in Riga, 01:35:14.470 --> 01:35:19.470 we found the local population busy exterminating the Jews, what shall we do? From Hitler's 01:35:19.470 --> 01:35:25.140 headquarters back goes a signal saying, don't interfere, don't interfere. This is the true 01:35:25.140 --> 01:35:27.140 story of what happened. But you won't, it's an untrue story. 01:35:28.140 --> 01:35:29.140 It's a popular story. Yes? 01:35:29.140 --> 01:35:50.530 The Jewish population in Europe, 1938 to 1934 and 1917, and the number of people who 01:35:50.530 --> 01:35:57.530 left from 1938 to 39, the number of people who survived the flight of declaration, the 01:35:57.530 --> 01:36:05.090 respect of the Smiths, the foremen, and the people themselves. 01:36:05.090 --> 01:36:09.090 Yes. Well, you're quoting to me figures from the inside of P.G. Britannica. I'm repeating 01:36:09.090 --> 01:36:12.090 this for the benefit of the camera and for the audience. You're quoting figures from 01:36:12.090 --> 01:36:13.090 the inside of P.G. Britannica. I'm repeating this for the benefit of the camera and for 01:36:13.090 --> 01:36:16.090 the audience. You're quoting figures from the inside of P.G. Britannica on Jewish population 01:36:16.090 --> 01:36:23.090 statistics at the end of World War II and the increments or reductions in those populations. 01:36:23.090 --> 01:36:29.180 I have to say there that you can't do meaningful calculations based on those statistics. I've 01:36:29.180 --> 01:36:33.180 seen people trying to make calculations based on those statistics and saying, before World 01:36:33.180 --> 01:36:37.180 War II, there were so many Jews in Poland, so many in Russia, so many in Austria, and 01:36:37.180 --> 01:36:41.180 doing simple sums on the back of an envelope and proving that nothing happened to them, 01:36:41.180 --> 01:36:42.180 or very little. 01:36:42.180 --> 01:36:47.180 You can't do that because you come up against serious, as any statistician will explain, 01:36:47.180 --> 01:36:54.220 a serious statistician, you come up against insuperable problems of definition. What do 01:36:54.220 --> 01:37:00.220 you mean by a Pole? What do you mean by a Jew? Even the Jews now can't decide who are 01:37:00.220 --> 01:37:04.600 Jews. I'll give you one example. There's an article in last week's newspapers by the head 01:37:04.600 --> 01:37:11.600 of the German Jewish community, Ignatz Bubis, bitterly angry at the 330,000 Jews who flooded 01:37:11.600 --> 01:37:17.700 into Germany from Russia because he says, one-third of those 30,000 Jews aren't Jews 01:37:17.700 --> 01:37:21.700 at all. We don't accept that they're Jews. They don't meet our definition of who is a 01:37:21.700 --> 01:37:26.700 Jew. He's complaining. He said they've come into Germany because this purely, because 01:37:26.700 --> 01:37:32.660 that was the ticket they needed to get out of the Soviet Union. Who is a Pole? Who is 01:37:32.660 --> 01:37:38.660 a Polish Jew? I mean, remember Hitler invaded Poland in September the 1st, 1939. Three weeks 01:37:38.660 --> 01:37:41.660 later, on the 17th, the Russians invaded eastern Poland. They declared the Poland to be a 01:37:41.660 --> 01:37:47.660 part of the Soviet Union. Hitler, meanwhile, had expelled all the Jews from his half of 01:37:47.660 --> 01:37:52.820 Poland over the demarcation line into the Soviet part. The whole situation becomes hopelessly 01:37:52.820 --> 01:37:58.820 confused. You can't do meaningful calculations. And the Jews have benefited from that because 01:37:58.820 --> 01:38:02.820 now they are and now they aren't. Now they're here and now they're not. Now they've got 01:38:02.820 --> 01:38:08.820 a Hebrew name and now they've got a Goldenberg name. They are what they want to be. They're 01:38:08.820 --> 01:38:11.820 will-o'-the-wisps. You seek them here. You seek them there. You seek them here. You seek them 01:38:11.820 --> 01:38:22.590 there. You can't do meaningful calculations on the basis of statistics. 01:38:22.590 --> 01:38:27.590 Well, I still stick by my opinion that you can't do meaningful statistics on the Jewish 01:38:27.590 --> 01:38:33.590 problem. The Nazis tried to do it. The Jews have tried to do it. Any attempt comes to 01:38:33.590 --> 01:38:37.590 grief on the basis of what is the definition of a Jew and what do you mean by an Austrian 01:38:37.590 --> 01:38:41.360 Jew and all the rest of it. Yes, you next. 01:38:41.360 --> 01:38:46.830 In the next two decades or so, we've heard that Pope Pius XII has been a Christian. 01:38:47.830 --> 01:38:54.850 And he'll cover up the gas chambers. And what I was interested in asking you is, was 01:38:54.850 --> 01:38:59.850 there any Jewish organizations in Germany and England and the United States during the 01:38:59.850 --> 01:39:05.850 period of 1942, 1945, when Pius XII was abused of carbon monoxide? Were any Jewish organizations 01:39:05.850 --> 01:39:11.800 raising the alarm that, hey, Hitler's gassing on the Jews? 01:39:11.800 --> 01:39:15.800 First of all, I've not seen any documents produced by the Vatican archives which refer 01:39:15.800 --> 01:39:18.800 to gas chambers. If they did, they would qualify to my mind for the thousand dollar reward 01:39:18.800 --> 01:39:20.800 which I've offered for twenty years. There is no document. 01:39:21.800 --> 01:39:27.930 The Jewish community began raising a hue and a cry in September 1942. 01:39:27.930 --> 01:39:31.930 Gerhard Regner, who was the Secretary General of the World Jewish Congress, 01:39:31.930 --> 01:39:34.930 who sent an entirely spurious and bogus report to London, 01:39:34.930 --> 01:39:37.930 demanding that it should be sent to his headquarters in New York, 01:39:37.930 --> 01:39:41.930 talking about Hitler having just taken a decision to kill millions of Jews 01:39:41.930 --> 01:39:44.930 and they were going to be killed by poison gas in gas chambers in Poland. 01:39:44.930 --> 01:39:46.930 And this is the first time that that legend arises. 01:39:46.930 --> 01:39:50.930 If you look in the British archives, you can see how eventually, a few months later, 01:39:50.930 --> 01:39:52.930 they turned the legend around and used it as propaganda, 01:39:52.930 --> 01:39:54.930 which we started broadcasting into Germany, 01:39:54.930 --> 01:39:57.930 which explains where the story then begins to arise from. 01:39:57.930 --> 01:39:59.930 We were listening to the echo of our own propaganda. 01:39:59.930 --> 01:40:02.930 But at the same time, in the British archives, and I've got the files here, 01:40:02.930 --> 01:40:04.930 I could share it with you afterwards if you want, 01:40:04.930 --> 01:40:07.930 the Foreign Office official who looks at this report, he says, 01:40:07.930 --> 01:40:12.660 the only references to gas chambers that we've seen 01:40:12.660 --> 01:40:15.660 are in documents provided to us by the Jewish community, 01:40:15.660 --> 01:40:17.730 largely because they concern Jews. 01:40:17.730 --> 01:40:20.730 These people are not reliable sources. 01:40:20.730 --> 01:40:21.730 They've always exaggerated. 01:40:21.730 --> 01:40:22.730 They've exaggerated in the past, 01:40:22.730 --> 01:40:24.730 and we see no reason to believe these people now. 01:40:24.730 --> 01:40:27.730 And he went on asking the very pertinent question, 01:40:27.730 --> 01:40:29.730 why use gas chambers? 01:40:29.730 --> 01:40:30.730 They're much easier ways of killing people. 01:40:30.730 --> 01:40:32.730 What's wrong with a good old-fashioned bullet 01:40:32.730 --> 01:40:36.760 that hasn't let the Russians down until now? 01:40:36.760 --> 01:40:38.760 A very pertinent question. 01:40:38.760 --> 01:40:41.300 Yes? 01:40:41.300 --> 01:40:46.700 In his book, have you ever read that book? 01:40:46.700 --> 01:40:48.700 I've heard the title of the book. I haven't read it, yes. 01:40:48.700 --> 01:40:51.700 I didn't know if your research has proved 01:40:51.700 --> 01:40:54.700 that many of all three factors, finance, and projects, 01:40:54.700 --> 01:40:57.370 are in the same book. 01:40:57.370 --> 01:40:59.370 If you look in my book, Churchill's War, 01:40:59.370 --> 01:41:02.370 you'll find I quote a document, a rather unusual document. 01:41:02.370 --> 01:41:06.370 The question is, did Wall Street bankers finance Hitler? 01:41:06.370 --> 01:41:08.690 I know what you mean, what you're getting at. 01:41:08.690 --> 01:41:11.690 The German Chancellor Brüning, before Hitler, 01:41:11.690 --> 01:41:14.690 Hitler's predecessor, he wrote memoirs. 01:41:14.690 --> 01:41:18.940 When he fled from Germany in 1938, 01:41:18.940 --> 01:41:20.940 he came to the United States eventually, 01:41:20.940 --> 01:41:22.940 and his papers are in Syracuse University in New York, 01:41:22.940 --> 01:41:25.220 where I've seen them. 01:41:25.220 --> 01:41:27.220 He wrote a letter to Churchill in 1937, 01:41:27.220 --> 01:41:30.220 after he had already gone into exile, 01:41:30.220 --> 01:41:32.220 and in this letter to Winston Churchill, 01:41:32.220 --> 01:41:34.220 Brüning, the German Chancellor, said, 01:41:34.220 --> 01:41:37.220 if you knew the problems I had as Chancellor, 01:41:37.220 --> 01:41:42.700 he said, I discovered that the major Jewish banks in Berlin 01:41:42.700 --> 01:41:44.860 had been financing Hitler, 01:41:44.860 --> 01:41:46.860 and that one of the banks was controlled 01:41:46.860 --> 01:41:48.860 by the head of the Jewish community. 01:41:48.860 --> 01:41:51.050 I have a copy of this letter. 01:41:51.050 --> 01:41:53.050 Now, after World War II, Winston Churchill wrote to Brüning, 01:41:53.050 --> 01:41:56.050 the Chancellor, who was by then living in the United States, 01:41:56.050 --> 01:41:58.050 and asked Brüning's permission 01:41:58.050 --> 01:42:00.050 to quote that letter in his six-volume 01:42:00.050 --> 01:42:02.050 History of the Second World War. 01:42:02.050 --> 01:42:05.050 Brüning wrote a reply to Churchill saying, 01:42:05.050 --> 01:42:08.050 Mr. Prime Minister, I'm very sorry to have to reject your, 01:42:08.050 --> 01:42:11.050 to refuse your permission to quote that letter. 01:42:11.050 --> 01:42:14.050 It was true what I wrote at the time in 1937, 01:42:14.050 --> 01:42:17.050 but given what has happened to the Jewish community 01:42:17.050 --> 01:42:19.050 in the years since then at the hands of the Nazis, 01:42:19.050 --> 01:42:21.140 whom they financed, 01:42:21.140 --> 01:42:24.370 it would be too tragic for this fact ever to become known. 01:42:24.370 --> 01:42:26.370 And so Churchill wasn't permitted to quote the letter. 01:42:26.370 --> 01:42:28.370 And I have all these letters because they're in the files 01:42:28.370 --> 01:42:30.370 of the Time Life Organization, 01:42:30.370 --> 01:42:33.370 which published the American edition of the Churchill memoirs 01:42:33.370 --> 01:42:35.370 at Columbia University in the archives 01:42:35.370 --> 01:42:38.370 of the then editor of Life magazine, 01:42:38.370 --> 01:42:40.370 Daniel Longwell. 01:42:40.370 --> 01:42:42.370 And like going through his private papers, 01:42:42.370 --> 01:42:44.370 I found copies of these Churchill Brüning letters, 01:42:44.370 --> 01:42:46.370 which are very interesting indeed, of course. 01:42:46.370 --> 01:42:48.370 Needless to say, that didn't stop me from quoting them 01:42:48.370 --> 01:42:50.560 in my book, Hitler's War. 01:42:50.560 --> 01:42:55.180 Yes? 01:42:55.180 --> 01:42:57.180 Well, Hitler took money from whoever was foolish enough 01:42:57.180 --> 01:42:59.180 to give it to him. 01:42:59.180 --> 01:43:01.180 And in this case, the people who were very foolish 01:43:01.180 --> 01:43:04.050 indeed. 01:43:04.050 --> 01:43:06.400 You wanted to ask a question? Yes. 01:43:06.400 --> 01:43:08.400 We have two or three more questions, 01:43:08.400 --> 01:43:10.400 then I think we'll wind up the evening. 01:43:10.400 --> 01:43:12.400 Well, I'm one of those that believes our Bill of Rights, 01:43:12.400 --> 01:43:14.400 our freedom of speech, has been wiped out 01:43:14.400 --> 01:43:16.400 by the United Nations Charter 01:43:16.400 --> 01:43:18.400 and replaced our Constitution. 01:43:18.400 --> 01:43:20.400 And I'd love it if you'd do research, 01:43:20.400 --> 01:43:22.400 or have you already, on the United Nations 01:43:22.400 --> 01:43:24.400 and its influence on freedom of speech. 01:43:24.400 --> 01:43:26.400 The influence of the United Nations 01:43:26.400 --> 01:43:30.900 on freedom of speech. 01:43:30.900 --> 01:43:32.900 Well, I can only repeat what I said 01:43:32.900 --> 01:43:34.900 at the very beginning of my talk, 01:43:34.900 --> 01:43:36.900 which was how dear and how precious I hold 01:43:36.900 --> 01:43:38.900 your First Amendment rights in this country 01:43:38.900 --> 01:43:40.900 as a foreigner visiting this country 01:43:40.900 --> 01:43:42.900 and benefiting from those rights. 01:43:42.900 --> 01:43:44.900 And I deeply regret that you don't 01:43:44.900 --> 01:43:46.900 seem to cherish the First Amendment 01:43:46.900 --> 01:43:48.900 right as much as we do 01:43:48.900 --> 01:43:50.900 who suffer from other countries 01:43:50.900 --> 01:43:52.900 where the freedom of speech 01:43:52.900 --> 01:43:54.900 has progressively eroded 01:43:54.900 --> 01:43:56.900 and where a scientist 01:43:56.900 --> 01:43:58.900 can be sent to prison, as in Germany now, 01:43:58.900 --> 01:44:00.900 because he comes up with a politically incorrect 01:44:00.900 --> 01:44:03.120 chemical result. 01:44:03.120 --> 01:44:05.120 This would be unthinkable in this country. 01:44:05.120 --> 01:44:07.120 But I only hope that you stand firm 01:44:07.120 --> 01:44:09.120 to the flag of your First Amendment rights 01:44:09.120 --> 01:44:11.120 in this country and you don't allow 01:44:11.120 --> 01:44:13.120 any power to erode them 01:44:13.120 --> 01:44:15.120 or to depredate them, 01:44:15.120 --> 01:44:17.120 whether the United Nations 01:44:17.120 --> 01:44:19.120 or any other power. 01:44:19.120 --> 01:44:21.120 I strongly mistrust the United Nations 01:44:21.120 --> 01:44:23.120 and I can't wait for the day 01:44:23.120 --> 01:44:32.030 when it finally collapses and implodes. 01:44:32.030 --> 01:44:39.790 I've seen stories that 01:44:39.790 --> 01:44:41.790 Jenny Jerome, 01:44:41.790 --> 01:44:43.790 the mother of Churchill, was Jewish 01:44:43.790 --> 01:44:45.790 and this has been reported 01:44:45.790 --> 01:44:47.790 in a Jerusalem newspaper 01:44:47.790 --> 01:44:49.790 I think a few months ago. 01:44:49.790 --> 01:44:51.790 I'm obviously looking into that. 01:44:51.790 --> 01:44:53.790 She had Jewish blood 01:44:53.790 --> 01:44:55.790 in her maternal line. 01:44:55.790 --> 01:44:57.790 Very interesting indeed. 01:44:57.790 --> 01:44:59.790 I don't think Churchill was cognizant of that fact. 01:44:59.790 --> 01:45:01.790 He never mentioned it. 01:45:01.790 --> 01:45:03.790 But what is interesting are his links with the Jewish community 01:45:03.790 --> 01:45:05.790 which I'll go into in a little bit of detail here 01:45:05.790 --> 01:45:07.790 because they've not been gone into 01:45:07.790 --> 01:45:09.790 by any of the other Churchill biographers 01:45:09.790 --> 01:45:11.790 for obvious reasons. 01:45:11.790 --> 01:45:13.790 In particular, the main authorized Churchill biographer, 01:45:13.790 --> 01:45:15.790 Martin Gilbert, hasn't gone into it 01:45:15.790 --> 01:45:17.790 for the simple reason that he's one himself. 01:45:17.790 --> 01:45:19.920 But the two basic areas of interest 01:45:19.920 --> 01:45:21.920 to look at in Churchill's career 01:45:21.920 --> 01:45:23.920 are the period when he was in the so-called wilderness 01:45:23.920 --> 01:45:25.920 when he resigned from Stanley Baldwin's cabinet 01:45:25.920 --> 01:45:28.020 as a minister 01:45:28.020 --> 01:45:30.020 and for the next ten years 01:45:30.020 --> 01:45:32.020 until 1939 01:45:32.020 --> 01:45:34.020 he was out of office. 01:45:34.020 --> 01:45:36.020 Out of any office at all. 01:45:36.020 --> 01:45:38.020 He was just a member of parliament. 01:45:38.020 --> 01:45:40.020 So all he had was his salary as a member of parliament 01:45:40.020 --> 01:45:42.020 and his rather pitiful earnings as a journalist 01:45:42.020 --> 01:45:44.020 and yet somehow he managed to support 01:45:44.020 --> 01:45:46.020 an enormous country estate 01:45:46.020 --> 01:45:48.020 which cost a very large sum of money 01:45:48.020 --> 01:45:50.020 with all the gardeners and the nurseries 01:45:50.020 --> 01:45:52.020 and the nurses and the nannies 01:45:52.020 --> 01:45:54.020 and the cooks and the housekeepers 01:45:54.020 --> 01:45:56.020 and all the rest of it. 01:45:56.020 --> 01:45:58.020 He had a private staff of sometimes 20 or 30 people 01:45:58.020 --> 01:46:00.020 all supported on his salary as a member of parliament 01:46:00.020 --> 01:46:02.020 which was at that time £500 per annum 01:46:02.020 --> 01:46:04.300 $750 a year 01:46:04.300 --> 01:46:06.300 or $2000 actually 01:46:06.300 --> 01:46:08.300 because at that time I think it was $4 a pound. 01:46:08.300 --> 01:46:10.300 How did he do it? 01:46:10.300 --> 01:46:12.300 Well the answer is that from 1936 onwards 01:46:12.300 --> 01:46:14.300 he was financed by a little secret pressure group 01:46:14.300 --> 01:46:16.750 called the Focus. 01:46:16.750 --> 01:46:18.750 You won't find much reference to the Focus in the history books 01:46:18.750 --> 01:46:20.750 that existed and there are several files 01:46:20.750 --> 01:46:22.750 of Churchill's private papers relating to the Focus. 01:46:22.750 --> 01:46:24.750 The Focus was a group of perhaps 30 or 40 01:46:24.750 --> 01:46:26.750 leading British industrialists 01:46:26.750 --> 01:46:28.750 and bankers and former politicians 01:46:28.750 --> 01:46:30.750 who decided that Churchill 01:46:30.750 --> 01:46:32.750 was worth keeping afloat 01:46:32.750 --> 01:46:34.940 and they funded him. 01:46:34.940 --> 01:46:36.940 They weren't all Jews. 01:46:36.940 --> 01:46:38.940 They were primarily Jewish 01:46:38.940 --> 01:46:40.940 but there were also left wing socialists 01:46:40.940 --> 01:46:42.940 and left wing conservative members of parliament 01:46:42.940 --> 01:46:45.140 who all decided to keep him afloat. 01:46:45.140 --> 01:46:47.140 In July 1936 01:46:47.140 --> 01:46:49.140 the then chairman 01:46:49.140 --> 01:46:51.140 of the Shell Petroleum Company 01:46:51.140 --> 01:46:53.140 wrote out a cheque for Churchill 01:46:53.140 --> 01:46:55.140 of the order of £40,000 01:46:55.140 --> 01:46:57.140 which in modern day money would be 01:46:57.140 --> 01:46:59.140 probably about $700,000 01:46:59.140 --> 01:47:01.460 and gave it to him as a gift. 01:47:01.460 --> 01:47:03.940 He was Jewish 01:47:03.940 --> 01:47:05.940 it was a Jewish gift to Churchill 01:47:05.940 --> 01:47:07.940 and the intention was that Churchill 01:47:07.940 --> 01:47:09.940 they bought him. 01:47:09.940 --> 01:47:11.940 He became the Pied Piper from that moment on 01:47:11.940 --> 01:47:13.940 and the one who pays the Piper calls the tune. 01:47:13.940 --> 01:47:15.940 If you look at the events 01:47:15.940 --> 01:47:17.940 as they really happened 01:47:17.940 --> 01:47:19.940 until 1936 he hardly gave Germany 01:47:19.940 --> 01:47:21.940 a passing mention in his speeches and writings. 01:47:21.940 --> 01:47:23.940 Other things were more important. 01:47:23.940 --> 01:47:25.940 From 1936 onwards 01:47:25.940 --> 01:47:27.940 he began beating the anti-Nazi 01:47:27.940 --> 01:47:29.940 anti-German drum 01:47:29.940 --> 01:47:31.940 and at that time there was a great deal 01:47:31.940 --> 01:47:33.940 of pro-German sentiment in Britain 01:47:33.940 --> 01:47:35.940 as witnessed the behaviour of the Duke of Windsor 01:47:35.940 --> 01:47:38.670 the King. 01:47:38.670 --> 01:47:40.670 King Edward VIII who ruled 01:47:40.670 --> 01:47:42.670 for just less than a year 01:47:42.670 --> 01:47:44.670 after the death of his father 01:47:44.670 --> 01:47:46.670 was very pro-German and pro-Hitler 01:47:46.670 --> 01:47:48.670 and actually got on very well 01:47:48.670 --> 01:47:51.570 in 1937. 01:47:51.570 --> 01:47:53.570 He was forced to abdicate 01:47:53.570 --> 01:47:55.860 by the same lobby 01:47:55.860 --> 01:47:57.860 but it was this lobby which was financing Churchill 01:47:57.860 --> 01:47:59.860 from 1936 onwards 01:47:59.860 --> 01:48:01.860 and which finally manoeuvred and engineered 01:48:01.860 --> 01:48:03.860 his introduction into the cabinet in 1939 01:48:03.860 --> 01:48:05.860 and finally his taking over 01:48:05.860 --> 01:48:07.980 as Prime Minister in 1940. 01:48:07.980 --> 01:48:11.200 He fought a war 01:48:11.200 --> 01:48:13.200 that Britain had no real interest in 01:48:13.200 --> 01:48:15.300 and I've repeatedly said this 01:48:15.300 --> 01:48:17.300 any logical 01:48:17.300 --> 01:48:19.300 perception of World War II 01:48:19.300 --> 01:48:21.300 now looking back after 50 years 01:48:21.300 --> 01:48:23.300 screams to the high heavens 01:48:23.300 --> 01:48:25.490 and we can see quite clearly 01:48:25.490 --> 01:48:27.490 that we should have said 01:48:27.490 --> 01:48:29.490 to the Poles in 1939 01:48:29.490 --> 01:48:31.490 you've got a problem with the Germans 01:48:31.490 --> 01:48:33.620 sort it out yourself 01:48:33.620 --> 01:48:35.620 we should have said to the Jews 01:48:35.620 --> 01:48:37.620 you've got a problem with the Nazis 01:48:37.620 --> 01:48:39.620 sort it out yourself 01:48:39.620 --> 01:48:41.620 it's no concern of Britain and the British Empire 01:48:41.620 --> 01:48:43.620 we've got other fish to fry 01:48:43.620 --> 01:48:45.620 that's what we should have said 01:48:45.620 --> 01:48:47.620 Churchill unfortunately was beholden to these people 01:48:47.620 --> 01:48:49.780 and he had no alternative 01:48:49.780 --> 01:48:51.780 so in 1940 when we had a choice put to us 01:48:51.780 --> 01:48:53.780 of accepting the very generous peace offer 01:48:53.780 --> 01:48:55.780 that was put to us 01:48:55.780 --> 01:48:57.780 which had been concealed from the history books 01:48:57.780 --> 01:48:59.840 by the Germans 01:48:59.840 --> 01:49:01.840 or fighting a totally senseless war onwards 01:49:01.840 --> 01:49:03.840 Churchill took the wrong turning 01:49:03.840 --> 01:49:05.840 and bankrupted Britain and ruined the British Empire 01:49:05.840 --> 01:49:07.840 I first said this in my book Churchill's War in 1987 01:49:07.840 --> 01:49:09.840 and now five other major historians 01:49:09.840 --> 01:49:11.840 have said the same thing 01:49:11.840 --> 01:49:13.840 this has now become known as the revisionist line of 01:49:13.840 --> 01:49:15.840 history of Second World War 01:49:15.840 --> 01:49:17.840 and I'm the one who actually opened up that path 01:49:17.840 --> 01:49:19.840 making people think the unthinkable 01:49:19.840 --> 01:49:21.840 looking at the alternative route that we could have taken 01:49:21.840 --> 01:49:24.030 in 1940 01:49:24.030 --> 01:49:26.260 in 1941, just to end this 01:49:26.260 --> 01:49:28.260 it becomes very interesting indeed 01:49:28.260 --> 01:49:30.260 because the Weizmann papers 01:49:30.260 --> 01:49:32.350 which are the papers of Chaim Weizmann 01:49:32.350 --> 01:49:34.350 who was the first president of the State of Israel 01:49:34.350 --> 01:49:36.480 and he was the leader of the 01:49:36.480 --> 01:49:38.480 international Zionist movement throughout World War II 01:49:38.480 --> 01:49:40.960 the Weizmann archives 01:49:40.960 --> 01:49:42.960 foolishly or wisely 01:49:42.960 --> 01:49:44.960 gave me complete access to all the Weizmann correspondence 01:49:44.960 --> 01:49:47.090 with Churchill 01:49:47.090 --> 01:49:49.090 and in the Weizmann archives 01:49:49.090 --> 01:49:51.090 are all Churchill's correspondence with Weizmann 01:49:51.090 --> 01:49:53.090 throughout the war years and before the war 01:49:53.090 --> 01:49:55.090 which relates on his meetings with Churchill 01:49:55.090 --> 01:49:57.090 and I'm only going to mention one of those letters here 01:49:57.090 --> 01:49:59.090 it's a letter written by Chaim Weizmann 01:49:59.090 --> 01:50:01.090 the leader of the Zionist movement 01:50:01.090 --> 01:50:03.090 at that time living in the United States 01:50:03.090 --> 01:50:05.090 to Winston Churchill in September 1941 01:50:05.090 --> 01:50:07.150 three months before Pearl Harbor 01:50:07.150 --> 01:50:09.150 when Churchill 01:50:09.150 --> 01:50:11.150 is frantically trying to claw 01:50:11.150 --> 01:50:13.150 the United States into his war 01:50:13.150 --> 01:50:15.150 because that's his only salvation 01:50:15.150 --> 01:50:17.150 and Weizmann writes to Churchill a letter 01:50:17.150 --> 01:50:19.150 which he says 01:50:19.150 --> 01:50:21.150 Mr. Prime Minister 01:50:21.150 --> 01:50:23.150 unless you grant us what we want 01:50:23.150 --> 01:50:25.250 as an army in the Middle East 01:50:25.250 --> 01:50:27.250 with our own arsenal and our own weapons 01:50:27.250 --> 01:50:29.250 and our own uniform and our own flag 01:50:29.250 --> 01:50:31.410 unless you grant us what we want 01:50:31.410 --> 01:50:33.410 then you are not going to win us over 01:50:33.410 --> 01:50:35.410 and let me tell you what we will do 01:50:35.410 --> 01:50:37.440 if you do grant us what we want 01:50:37.440 --> 01:50:39.440 if you grant us our wishes 01:50:39.440 --> 01:50:41.500 then we will act on your behalf 01:50:41.500 --> 01:50:43.500 in the United States 01:50:43.500 --> 01:50:45.500 and remember Mr. Churchill 01:50:45.500 --> 01:50:47.500 he writes in this letter 01:50:47.500 --> 01:50:49.500 remember we are the only powerful unified block 01:50:49.500 --> 01:50:51.500 in the United States 01:50:51.500 --> 01:50:53.500 which solidly backs the British cause in this war 01:50:53.500 --> 01:50:55.500 in September 1941 01:50:55.500 --> 01:50:57.500 everybody else is basically isolationist 01:50:57.500 --> 01:50:59.500 we are the only ethnic unified group 01:50:59.500 --> 01:51:01.500 which solidly backs the British cause 01:51:01.500 --> 01:51:03.500 we are the only people 01:51:03.500 --> 01:51:05.500 who are in the position to bring the United States 01:51:05.500 --> 01:51:07.660 into this war 01:51:07.660 --> 01:51:09.660 we did it in the last war 01:51:09.660 --> 01:51:12.430 and we can do it again 01:51:12.430 --> 01:51:14.430 needless to say I quote this letter in volume 2 01:51:14.430 --> 01:51:16.430 of my Churchill biography 01:51:16.430 --> 01:51:18.430 in a chapter called we did it before and we can do it again 01:51:18.430 --> 01:51:20.430 and I don't expect to get any applause 01:51:20.430 --> 01:51:22.430 from the newspaper community in Britain 01:51:22.430 --> 01:51:24.430 for having revealed this letter 01:51:24.430 --> 01:51:26.690 take two more questions 01:51:26.690 --> 01:51:35.890 any truth to the idea that Hitler was a descendant of Rothschild 01:51:35.890 --> 01:51:37.890 I've never heard that before 01:51:37.890 --> 01:51:39.890 I don't think so 01:51:39.890 --> 01:51:41.890 I think if so the Rothschild must have deeply regretted it 01:51:41.890 --> 01:51:43.890 and called him the black sheep of the family 01:51:43.890 --> 01:51:46.430 final question 01:51:46.430 --> 01:51:48.430 one more 01:51:48.430 --> 01:51:50.530 yes last question 01:51:50.530 --> 01:51:52.530 I read from two sources 01:51:52.530 --> 01:51:54.530 that this goes directly back to 01:51:54.530 --> 01:51:56.530 Eisenhower 01:51:56.530 --> 01:51:58.530 the first of the war camps were designed for starvation 01:51:58.530 --> 01:52:00.530 of the German soldiers 01:52:00.530 --> 01:52:02.530 and as many as 1.9 billion were murdered 01:52:02.530 --> 01:52:04.530 more were killed in the camps than in the war 01:52:04.530 --> 01:52:06.530 and it gets 01:52:06.530 --> 01:52:08.530 you talk to Americans about it 01:52:08.530 --> 01:52:10.530 we want to hold onto this as the last great war 01:52:10.530 --> 01:52:12.530 as if it was noble because it was a war 01:52:12.530 --> 01:52:14.530 not a priest action 01:52:14.530 --> 01:52:16.530 but really it was between Christians 01:52:16.530 --> 01:52:18.530 well 01:52:18.530 --> 01:52:20.530 it was a kind of race war 01:52:20.530 --> 01:52:22.530 but the episode you touch on 01:52:22.530 --> 01:52:24.530 what happened to the German prisoners in the American camps 01:52:24.530 --> 01:52:26.530 was in fact investigated in great depth 01:52:26.530 --> 01:52:28.530 by a friend of mine Jim Back 01:52:28.530 --> 01:52:30.530 who wrote a book called other losses 01:52:30.530 --> 01:52:32.780 and he's deeply regretted it ever since then having written that book 01:52:32.780 --> 01:52:34.780 until he published that book in Canada 01:52:34.780 --> 01:52:36.780 he was a widely respected novelist 01:52:36.780 --> 01:52:38.780 and historian 01:52:38.780 --> 01:52:40.780 and one of Canada's best writers 01:52:40.780 --> 01:52:42.780 doing very well for himself 01:52:42.780 --> 01:52:44.780 the moment he published that book in Canada 01:52:44.780 --> 01:52:46.780 exactly the same thing happened to him 01:52:46.780 --> 01:52:48.780 as happened to me since 1977 01:52:48.780 --> 01:52:50.780 an attempt to ostracize him 01:52:50.780 --> 01:52:52.780 an attempt to ruin him 01:52:52.780 --> 01:52:54.780 by the organized international Jewish community 01:52:54.780 --> 01:52:56.780 determined not to allow any other episode 01:52:56.780 --> 01:52:58.780 to distract 01:52:58.780 --> 01:53:00.780 or divert attention from their own episode 01:53:00.780 --> 01:53:02.780 which they've labeled the Holocaust 01:53:02.780 --> 01:53:05.490 it's a very interesting case study 01:53:05.490 --> 01:53:07.490 in the distortion of history 01:53:07.490 --> 01:53:09.490 and in the persecution of those 01:53:09.490 --> 01:53:11.490 who come up with politically incorrect history 01:53:27.490 --> 01:53:29.490 it would be very tactless I think for me 01:53:29.490 --> 01:53:31.490 as a foreigner and as a guest in your country 01:53:31.490 --> 01:53:33.490 to comment on the proprietors 01:53:33.490 --> 01:53:35.490 of the federal government 01:53:37.490 --> 01:53:39.490 ladies and gentlemen 01:53:39.490 --> 01:53:41.490 thank you so much for having turned out 01:53:41.490 --> 01:53:43.490 this evening 01:53:43.490 --> 01:53:45.490 I'm sure you had a lot more to say