WEBVTT 00:00:04.300 --> 00:00:22.170 We, white historians, do not have an easy time. As you know, I am banned from many countries around the world, I like to think, because they can't produce historians who are capable of opposing me, lucidly or convincingly. 00:00:22.170 --> 00:00:35.970 I am banned from Canada, Germany, Italy, I think, I'm not sure. All I know is that when I stepped off the plane at Rome Airport, when students invited me to address them there in June 1992, 00:00:35.970 --> 00:00:47.450 I found the plane surrounded by police cars with flashing blue lights, and uniformed men with flat black caps came marching up the steps of the aircraft, calling out my name. 00:00:47.450 --> 00:00:51.450 And they took my baggage off me, and I thought, how very decent of them. 00:00:51.450 --> 00:00:53.450 I thought, this is real VIPs. 00:00:53.450 --> 00:01:04.450 This is VIP treatment here in Italy, that here in club class you get your baggage handlers coming onto the plane, calling out your name and taking your baggage off you as you go down the steps. 00:01:04.450 --> 00:01:15.120 And I haven't been back to Italy since then, and I haven't been back to Germany since I was banned from Germany in November 1993, 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:22.120 when I was handed a message by the German police at the restaurant where I had arranged a rendezvous in Munich 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:24.120 with the students who had invited me to go and address them there. 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:26.220 At the university. 00:01:26.220 --> 00:01:31.220 There had only been one telephone call from Alabama, where I was at the time, to Munich, to the students who had invited me, 00:01:31.220 --> 00:01:35.220 and we had arranged that restaurant rendezvous where they would pick me up. 00:01:35.220 --> 00:01:43.340 And when I went to the restaurant on the appointed date, a few days later, sure enough, these uniformed and plainclothes policemen were waiting to intercept me, 00:01:43.340 --> 00:01:53.410 and they handed me a 20-page memorandum on the reasons why I was going to be banned from Germany in perpetuity, permanently, forever and evermore, forthwith. 00:01:54.410 --> 00:02:00.590 And having handed that to me, they said, there's one other thing we have to do. 00:02:00.590 --> 00:02:02.590 Very regrettably, Mr. Irving. 00:02:02.590 --> 00:02:07.590 And I said, well, before we get on to that, let me just telephone my lawyer in Dusseldorf. 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:09.590 And they said, well, yes, understandably. 00:02:09.590 --> 00:02:11.590 And I said, I want to put this to him and ask him what the position is. 00:02:11.590 --> 00:02:13.590 And they said, well, please go ahead. 00:02:13.590 --> 00:02:17.720 And I said, I'm just going to go out to the car to get the address of my lawyer. 00:02:17.720 --> 00:02:23.520 And one of the policemen turned to one of his colleagues, a woman, and said, have you got what we need? 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:24.520 And she said, no, I thought you had it. 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:25.580 And he said, well, we'll get it. 00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:26.580 And I said, no, I thought you had it. 00:02:26.580 --> 00:02:28.740 And she said, no, we've got to go and get something, too. 00:02:28.740 --> 00:02:32.740 And I probably correctly apprehended that it was something very nasty indeed. 00:02:32.740 --> 00:02:34.740 And I said, well, I'll see you back here in a minute. 00:02:34.740 --> 00:02:37.740 And I just came out of the car to get the lawyer's address. 00:02:37.740 --> 00:02:46.740 And I got into the car, and I drove off at high speed past a group of wailing Jews who were actually waiting by their monument, their Holocaust monument. 00:02:46.740 --> 00:02:52.060 Because I think it was November the 8th or the 9th, 1993, that this particular episode happened. 00:02:52.060 --> 00:02:57.060 Two or three days later, we knew that they had actually intended to arrest me and imprison me at that moment. 00:02:57.060 --> 00:03:02.060 Having formally served a deportation notice, they were going to arrest me and imprison me. 00:03:02.060 --> 00:03:05.510 I would have vanished, I think, probably for at least six months. 00:03:05.510 --> 00:03:09.990 Possibly even for the six or seven years that befell my friend, Gunther Deckert. 00:03:09.990 --> 00:03:11.990 That's the situation in modern Germany now. 00:03:11.990 --> 00:03:17.790 It's a country which many of us scratch our heads over. 00:03:17.790 --> 00:03:27.790 We, in the rest of the world, have spent so much time and effort in the last hundred years trying to din the idea of free speech into the German people. 00:03:27.790 --> 00:03:30.790 We haven't quite grasped the notion. 00:03:30.790 --> 00:03:33.790 Time and again, they have lost the thread. 00:03:33.790 --> 00:03:36.980 They've lost the plot. 00:03:36.980 --> 00:03:40.980 I addressed an audience in Washington State University a couple of years back. 00:03:40.980 --> 00:03:46.980 And there was a German student in the audience, a very attractive girl of 21 or 22, when question time came. 00:03:46.980 --> 00:03:50.980 And I described much the same kind of thing to her, to the audience. 00:03:50.980 --> 00:03:53.980 And she stood up, and she said, I am an exchange student from Germany. 00:03:53.980 --> 00:03:57.980 And that kind of clipped, precise voice that the Germans have when they speak to English audiences. 00:03:57.980 --> 00:04:01.840 And she said, I am an exchange student from Germany. 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:09.840 And I must say that I personally find it completely proper that our government decides what we are allowed to discuss and what the correct version of history is. 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:15.840 And if Mr. Irving describes that people who oppose this correct version of history are put in prison, then personally I have no opposition to that. 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:18.840 I think it is an excellent thing. 00:04:18.840 --> 00:04:25.840 And I could see, I mean, it was as though she was frozen to absolute zero. 00:04:25.840 --> 00:04:28.840 The way that the audience around her congealed in ripples. 00:04:28.840 --> 00:04:32.840 And moved instinctively away from this monster in their midst. 00:04:32.840 --> 00:04:43.840 This wonderful American audience of students having this foreigner standing up in their midst and saying that she thought it was completely correct that government should decide what history was and who was allowed to debate it. 00:04:43.840 --> 00:04:46.840 And to imprison anybody who thought otherwise. 00:04:46.840 --> 00:04:48.940 Only 23. 00:04:48.940 --> 00:04:52.940 And I have to say that I have a lot of German friends in Germany who think the same way. 00:04:52.940 --> 00:04:58.830 They find nothing abnormal with the fact that they lock up people for chairing meetings or for writing articles. 00:04:58.830 --> 00:05:00.830 Or for writing letters. 00:05:00.830 --> 00:05:05.060 They're living in a fish tank over there. 00:05:05.060 --> 00:05:08.060 They're living in this strange fish tank called Germany. 00:05:08.060 --> 00:05:12.060 And they're wondering where the smell is coming from. 00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:14.060 But it's coming from themselves. 00:05:14.060 --> 00:05:16.060 It's coming from their own government. 00:05:16.060 --> 00:05:20.060 They're all gradually rotting away as they've rotted away so many times over the last hundred years. 00:05:20.060 --> 00:05:22.860 It's a very strange phenomenon. 00:05:22.860 --> 00:05:24.860 And there's not much I can do about it. 00:05:24.860 --> 00:05:27.860 And we see again and again this manifestation of the German madness. 00:05:27.860 --> 00:05:28.860 Most recently manifested. 00:05:28.860 --> 00:05:31.950 In the internet. 00:05:31.950 --> 00:05:38.110 Where the world has now by magic developed a means of communicating with each other. 00:05:38.110 --> 00:05:40.200 Beyond boundaries. 00:05:40.200 --> 00:05:41.200 Beyond frontiers. 00:05:41.200 --> 00:05:43.200 Through the ether. 00:05:43.200 --> 00:05:44.230 Through the radio waves. 00:05:44.230 --> 00:05:45.230 Through the telephone communications. 00:05:45.230 --> 00:05:49.230 In such a manner that there is almost no means of blocking it. 00:05:49.230 --> 00:05:51.330 Governments have tried to block it. 00:05:51.330 --> 00:05:53.330 The Chinese government tries to block the internet. 00:05:53.330 --> 00:05:54.330 Saudi Arabia tries to block it. 00:05:54.330 --> 00:05:55.330 But you can't. 00:05:55.330 --> 00:05:58.330 There's always another door that it comes in through. 00:05:58.330 --> 00:06:00.330 For the first time that we have free speech. 00:06:00.330 --> 00:06:03.460 It's the exact opposite of George Orwell's 1984. 00:06:03.460 --> 00:06:11.310 And the German government is fighting this King Canute like rearguard action. 00:06:11.310 --> 00:06:13.310 Trying to kill the internet. 00:06:13.310 --> 00:06:18.310 Demanding that the American government should clamp down on internet service providers. 00:06:18.310 --> 00:06:22.310 Who host what the German government calls hate sites. 00:06:22.310 --> 00:06:23.310 Neo-Nazi sites. 00:06:23.310 --> 00:06:26.310 Anybody in other words who teaches real history. 00:06:26.310 --> 00:06:29.700 Should be clamped down on at the insistence of the Germans. 00:06:29.700 --> 00:06:31.700 Even if that website is in the United States. 00:06:31.700 --> 00:06:33.700 And being read by Americans. 00:06:33.700 --> 00:06:35.820 The Germans want to intervene. 00:06:35.820 --> 00:06:37.820 They're being partially successful I'm afraid to say. 00:06:37.820 --> 00:06:39.820 They've managed to clamp down on eBay. 00:06:39.820 --> 00:06:43.820 The auction site that is not allowed to sell Nazi documents or memorabilia. 00:06:43.820 --> 00:06:45.980 Which is where I find a lot of my stuff. 00:06:45.980 --> 00:06:47.980 Occasionally go to eBay on the internet. 00:06:47.980 --> 00:06:48.980 And I click in the name Himmler. 00:06:48.980 --> 00:06:50.980 Because I'm interested in Heinrich Himmler. 00:06:50.980 --> 00:06:52.980 I want to see what fresh documents are coming up. 00:06:52.980 --> 00:06:56.980 A lot of Himmler's private material was taken from his home by GIs. 00:06:56.980 --> 00:06:59.980 And is now in private hands here in the United States. 00:06:59.980 --> 00:07:02.720 Himmler wrote 200 private documents. 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:04.720 Private letters to his mistress. 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:06.720 From 1938 to 1944. 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.750 They're in the private hands of a lawyer in Chicago. 00:07:09.750 --> 00:07:10.750 I've seen them. 00:07:10.750 --> 00:07:12.750 I've never seen so much Himmler handwriting in my life. 00:07:12.750 --> 00:07:13.750 I've read them too. 00:07:13.750 --> 00:07:15.750 They're wonderful material. 00:07:15.750 --> 00:07:18.750 It's a great source of research is the internet. 00:07:18.750 --> 00:07:21.880 And the German government is frantic. 00:07:21.880 --> 00:07:22.880 It's like the Dam Busters. 00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:23.880 Like the Myrna Dam. 00:07:23.880 --> 00:07:25.880 If you've ever seen that film of the Dam Busters. 00:07:25.880 --> 00:07:28.880 When there are the German guards standing on top of the tower. 00:07:28.880 --> 00:07:30.880 And the British come in with their bouncing bombs. 00:07:30.880 --> 00:07:31.880 Barnes Wallace. 00:07:31.880 --> 00:07:32.880 I knew Barnes Wallace. 00:07:32.880 --> 00:07:33.880 He was a wonderful scientist. 00:07:33.880 --> 00:07:35.880 He was the one who devised his bouncing bomb. 00:07:35.880 --> 00:07:38.880 The one that skipped across the water the way that a stone skips across it. 00:07:38.880 --> 00:07:40.880 Like ducks and drakes. 00:07:40.880 --> 00:07:42.880 Bounced across the anti-torpedo netting. 00:07:42.880 --> 00:07:44.880 Came up against the dam wall. 00:07:44.880 --> 00:07:46.880 And then slithered down the dam wall. 00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:47.880 Still spinning. 00:07:47.880 --> 00:07:49.880 Clinging to the wall through the water forces. 00:07:49.880 --> 00:07:51.880 And then exploding. 00:07:51.880 --> 00:07:54.230 And on the other side of the dam. 00:07:54.230 --> 00:07:58.740 We see in the film tiny hairline cracks beginning to appear. 00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:00.740 And that's the way it is with the internet. 00:08:00.740 --> 00:08:03.060 The internet has brought about 00:08:03.060 --> 00:08:08.350 tiny hairline cracks in this huge monolithic media presence 00:08:08.350 --> 00:08:11.350 that exists around the world controlled by 00:08:11.350 --> 00:08:13.350 not just by Jewish organizations 00:08:13.350 --> 00:08:15.350 but controlled by all those who are inimical 00:08:15.350 --> 00:08:18.350 to the interests of free speech and free research. 00:08:18.350 --> 00:08:20.350 The people that I call the traditional enemies of free speech 00:08:20.350 --> 00:08:22.350 or traditional enemies of the truth. 00:08:22.350 --> 00:08:25.510 They are frantic because the internet has grown up in their back garden 00:08:25.510 --> 00:08:28.510 like a weed and they didn't realize it was happening. 00:08:28.510 --> 00:08:29.510 And it's a virulent weed. 00:08:29.510 --> 00:08:32.510 There's nothing they can pour on it that will get rid of this weed. 00:08:32.510 --> 00:08:34.510 It's growing in their back garden 00:08:34.510 --> 00:08:36.510 and it's going to smother them. 00:08:36.510 --> 00:08:38.510 And yet out of this weedy 00:08:38.510 --> 00:08:40.510 this jungle of weeds 00:08:40.510 --> 00:08:42.510 is going to emerge something that is infinitely purer 00:08:42.510 --> 00:08:44.510 than what it has smothered. 00:08:44.510 --> 00:08:46.510 This frequently happens. 00:08:46.510 --> 00:08:53.670 And the reason I've got this vivid and acute perception 00:08:53.670 --> 00:08:55.670 this almost pathological perception 00:08:55.670 --> 00:08:57.670 of what our enemies are like 00:08:57.670 --> 00:09:00.670 is because I have been in the forefront 00:09:00.670 --> 00:09:03.670 of the fight against the traditional enemies of free speech. 00:09:03.670 --> 00:09:07.240 I found myself in the forefront. 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:09.240 I never picked this particular battle. 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:11.240 It's a foolish battle to pick. 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:13.240 If all you want to do is write 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:15.240 if all you want to do is turn out books 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:17.240 and you've only got a limited number of days and nights 00:09:17.240 --> 00:09:19.240 and weeks and months and years left in your lifespan 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:21.240 you don't want to have to fight this kind of battle 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:23.240 where you have to set three years aside 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:26.240 to go into the law courts in the Strand in London 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:29.240 and do all the sterile kind of thinking 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:31.240 and churning and paperwork 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:33.240 and documentation and argumentation 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:35.240 which has nothing to do with the writing of history. 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:37.240 You don't want to have to do that. 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:39.240 It's a terrible burden on the brain 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:41.240 and on your time and on your physical resources 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:43.690 and on your financial resources. 00:09:43.690 --> 00:09:47.880 Fortunately I was able to continue the fight 00:09:47.880 --> 00:09:50.880 by virtue of two resources. 00:09:50.880 --> 00:09:53.880 My first resource was the internet. 00:09:53.880 --> 00:09:56.200 When the battle began in earnest 00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:58.200 at the beginning of last year 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:00.200 and it was a three month battle in the law courts 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:03.200 I had to attend court every day for three months 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:05.650 in person alone 00:10:05.650 --> 00:10:08.650 while the other side turned up with 40 barristers 00:10:08.650 --> 00:10:10.650 and lawyers and associates and historians 00:10:10.650 --> 00:10:12.650 and their assistants and students 00:10:12.650 --> 00:10:13.650 row upon row of them 00:10:13.650 --> 00:10:16.650 linked by their computers and their laptops 00:10:16.650 --> 00:10:19.650 all the cables like a tangle in the courtroom 00:10:19.650 --> 00:10:21.650 between all the computers. 00:10:21.650 --> 00:10:22.650 I had my own computer 00:10:22.650 --> 00:10:25.710 and I was linked to all the other historians in the world. 00:10:25.710 --> 00:10:27.710 All the nonconformist historians 00:10:27.710 --> 00:10:29.710 the ones who were interested that history should come out 00:10:29.710 --> 00:10:32.540 and the truth should be told in that courtroom. 00:10:32.540 --> 00:10:34.540 And every day when there had been 00:10:34.540 --> 00:10:36.540 some particularly serious point raised 00:10:36.540 --> 00:10:38.540 that I wanted to be able to put to the opposing witnesses 00:10:38.540 --> 00:10:40.540 and cross-examination the next day 00:10:40.540 --> 00:10:42.540 I would go back to my apartment 00:10:42.540 --> 00:10:44.540 at five o'clock in the evening 00:10:44.540 --> 00:10:45.540 absolutely dead 00:10:45.540 --> 00:10:47.540 and I would sleep for two hours on the sofa 00:10:47.540 --> 00:10:50.540 what my little girl Jessica calls the get well sofa 00:10:50.540 --> 00:10:52.540 because daddy always seemed to be lying on it 00:10:52.540 --> 00:10:54.610 and getting better when he got up. 00:10:54.610 --> 00:10:55.610 And I'd go to that sofa 00:10:55.610 --> 00:10:57.610 and after I got up at seven in the evening 00:10:57.610 --> 00:10:58.610 I'd go to the computer 00:10:58.610 --> 00:11:00.640 and I would tap in a message 00:11:00.640 --> 00:11:01.640 to my gang as I called them 00:11:01.640 --> 00:11:03.640 of assistants around the world 00:11:03.640 --> 00:11:05.640 Australia, Vancouver and elsewhere. 00:11:05.640 --> 00:11:07.640 Brian Rink was one of them who spoke to you yesterday. 00:11:07.640 --> 00:11:08.670 And I'd say 00:11:08.670 --> 00:11:10.670 we have a problem with the doors 00:11:10.670 --> 00:11:12.670 of the crematorium too. 00:11:12.670 --> 00:11:16.440 The problem is that the judge has pointed out 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:17.440 and it's been pointed out to the court 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:19.440 by their expert Van Rink 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:20.440 Van Pelt 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:22.440 that the doors have been changed 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:24.440 from the inside of the mortuary 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:25.440 to the outside. 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:29.020 These gas-tight doors with the peephole 00:11:29.020 --> 00:11:31.020 are now going to be on the outside 00:11:31.020 --> 00:11:33.020 and the defendants are arguing that the reason 00:11:33.020 --> 00:11:36.020 that that change has been made in the blueprints 00:11:36.020 --> 00:11:39.020 is that the bodies of the thousands of victims 00:11:39.020 --> 00:11:41.020 inside are going to be pressing against the doors 00:11:41.020 --> 00:11:43.020 and they can't open the doors inwards 00:11:43.020 --> 00:11:45.020 so they've got to open the doors outwards 00:11:45.020 --> 00:11:46.020 like these doors here. 00:11:46.020 --> 00:11:48.780 What can you say about that? 00:11:48.780 --> 00:11:50.780 And overnight around the world 00:11:50.780 --> 00:11:52.780 these experts of mine would start thinking 00:11:52.780 --> 00:11:54.780 and burrowing and looking in the records 00:11:54.780 --> 00:11:55.780 and then back would come a message 00:11:55.780 --> 00:11:57.780 from an architect in New York 00:11:57.780 --> 00:12:00.980 one of the most senior and qualified architects 00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:02.980 I can't mention his name for obvious reasons 00:12:02.980 --> 00:12:03.980 in New York 00:12:03.980 --> 00:12:07.200 who sent to me by email 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.200 an image of a page 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.200 from the German architect's manual 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:14.490 which was actually in use at Auschwitz at that time 00:12:14.490 --> 00:12:16.490 a manual called Neufurt 00:12:16.490 --> 00:12:18.740 which Van Pelt had admitted was used 00:12:18.740 --> 00:12:20.740 by the SS construction architects 00:12:20.740 --> 00:12:22.740 building that camp 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:23.810 and on the page of that manual 00:12:23.810 --> 00:12:25.810 the wartime manual for the construction 00:12:25.810 --> 00:12:26.810 of air raid shelters 00:12:26.810 --> 00:12:30.810 it says these gas-tight doors with peepholes 00:12:30.810 --> 00:12:33.810 are to be installed on the outside 00:12:33.810 --> 00:12:34.810 of the door frame 00:12:34.810 --> 00:12:39.100 The door has to open outwards 00:12:39.100 --> 00:12:42.100 in other words they were converting this building 00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:44.100 in readiness for later use possibly 00:12:44.100 --> 00:12:46.100 as a gas-tight air raid shelter 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:50.100 nothing to do with bodies pressing against the inside of the door 00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:53.020 and by 7 a.m. when I came back 00:12:53.020 --> 00:12:55.020 from taking little Jessica to school 00:12:55.020 --> 00:12:58.020 the messages were there waiting for me in the email 00:12:58.020 --> 00:13:00.120 and I opened them up and I printed them out 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.120 and took them down to the courthouse at 9 a.m. 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:04.120 and the people on the other side were baffled 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:06.120 how was I getting this information just like that 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:09.120 and that was one of my resources 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:10.120 the internet 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:13.600 the other resource was my worldwide 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:15.920 circle of supporters 00:13:15.920 --> 00:13:16.920 the fighting fund 00:13:16.920 --> 00:13:19.940 all this time that I was fighting that legal action 00:13:19.940 --> 00:13:21.940 I had no income whatsoever 00:13:21.940 --> 00:13:24.420 Deborah Lipstadt my main opponent in this action 00:13:24.420 --> 00:13:25.420 had seen to that 00:13:25.420 --> 00:13:28.420 she and her cohorts had put pressure on 00:13:28.420 --> 00:13:30.420 all my publishers around the world 00:13:30.420 --> 00:13:32.460 you don't spot it at the time 00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:34.460 I knew that they'd put pressure on St. Martin's Press 00:13:34.460 --> 00:13:37.460 who were going to publish the Goebbels biography 00:13:37.460 --> 00:13:39.460 in 1996 00:13:39.460 --> 00:13:41.460 because she told the Washington Post 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:42.460 that she had done that 00:13:42.460 --> 00:13:43.460 that she had 00:13:43.460 --> 00:13:45.460 and her friends at the Anti-Defamation League 00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:47.460 had put pressure on the St. Martin's Press 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:49.460 one of the biggest publishers in New York 00:13:49.460 --> 00:13:51.460 to cancel the contract that they had with me 00:13:51.460 --> 00:13:52.460 for publishing that book 00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:54.680 I knew that she had done that 00:13:54.680 --> 00:13:57.680 it wasn't until the next year or two 00:13:57.680 --> 00:14:00.680 that looking back you could see that other things had happened 00:14:00.680 --> 00:14:02.680 that you hadn't associated at that time 00:14:02.680 --> 00:14:03.680 with the campaign 00:14:03.680 --> 00:14:06.680 paperback publishers had suddenly ceased responding 00:14:06.680 --> 00:14:09.680 a printer in Sweden had suddenly refused to print a book 00:14:09.680 --> 00:14:11.680 a printer in Denmark 00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:13.680 had come under trade union pressure 00:14:13.680 --> 00:14:15.680 and so it was around the world 00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:17.680 it was a global campaign 00:14:17.680 --> 00:14:21.680 to interdict my ability to find and research 00:14:21.680 --> 00:14:23.680 and publish and print what I had found 00:14:23.680 --> 00:14:27.130 it made a very interesting battle indeed 00:14:27.130 --> 00:14:29.130 but it made it also a painful battle 00:14:29.130 --> 00:14:30.130 because I had the school bills 00:14:30.130 --> 00:14:31.130 the grocery bills 00:14:31.130 --> 00:14:32.130 the rent 00:14:32.130 --> 00:14:33.130 telephone bills 00:14:33.130 --> 00:14:34.130 all the rest of it to pay 00:14:34.130 --> 00:14:36.130 which increased exponentially 00:14:36.130 --> 00:14:39.130 because of the legal battle I was now facing 00:14:39.130 --> 00:14:40.700 I couldn't afford the lawyers 00:14:40.700 --> 00:14:41.700 I couldn't afford the council 00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:43.700 because you're looking there at two or three 00:14:43.700 --> 00:14:45.700 four hundred thousand dollars 00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:46.700 even for a short action 00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:48.700 let alone one that lasted three months 00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:52.220 my opponents in this action spent six million pounds 00:14:52.220 --> 00:14:53.220 around about eight million dollars 00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:55.220 defending the action that I had brought 00:14:55.220 --> 00:14:58.410 I'd brought the action against Deborah Lipstadt 00:14:58.410 --> 00:15:01.540 in that same year 1996 00:15:01.540 --> 00:15:04.540 I thought the time has now come when you've got the fight back 00:15:04.540 --> 00:15:06.980 my opening speech to the court in fact 00:15:06.980 --> 00:15:08.980 in January last year 00:15:08.980 --> 00:15:11.980 I began by describing how when I wrote my very first book 00:15:11.980 --> 00:15:16.140 in 1963 it was published by William Kimber 00:15:16.140 --> 00:15:17.140 he had advised me 00:15:17.140 --> 00:15:20.140 never ever ever take libel action 00:15:20.140 --> 00:15:23.140 if people smear you ignore it 00:15:23.140 --> 00:15:24.370 and the reason he said that 00:15:24.370 --> 00:15:25.370 because at that time 00:15:25.370 --> 00:15:27.370 when I first visited him in his office 00:15:27.370 --> 00:15:28.370 in the West End of London 00:15:28.370 --> 00:15:30.370 this publisher William Kimber 00:15:30.370 --> 00:15:34.550 whose obituary I later wrote for the Daily Telegraph 00:15:34.550 --> 00:15:36.550 he was surrounded by files 00:15:36.550 --> 00:15:37.550 thousands of files 00:15:37.550 --> 00:15:38.550 he was involved in a libel action 00:15:38.550 --> 00:15:41.550 over a book by a man called Leon Uris 00:15:41.550 --> 00:15:43.620 Leon Uris had written a book called 00:15:43.620 --> 00:15:44.620 Exodus 00:15:44.620 --> 00:15:48.380 and in that he had accidentally libeled a doctor 00:15:48.380 --> 00:15:50.380 who had served in Auschwitz 00:15:50.380 --> 00:15:51.380 Dr. Daring 00:15:51.380 --> 00:15:52.380 he referred 00:15:52.380 --> 00:15:53.380 if you read the book by Leon Uris 00:15:53.380 --> 00:15:54.380 Exodus 00:15:54.380 --> 00:15:55.380 you'll see that there's a Dr. Daring 00:15:55.380 --> 00:15:57.420 who is described 00:15:57.420 --> 00:16:00.420 as having performed thousands of experiments on women 00:16:00.420 --> 00:16:03.280 without anesthetic in the camp 00:16:03.280 --> 00:16:05.280 and the unfortunate thing for Uris 00:16:05.280 --> 00:16:06.280 in his novel 00:16:06.280 --> 00:16:07.280 was that there was a Dr. Daring 00:16:07.280 --> 00:16:08.280 who had been in Auschwitz 00:16:08.280 --> 00:16:10.280 and he was living not in Poland 00:16:10.280 --> 00:16:11.280 but in the West End of London 00:16:11.280 --> 00:16:12.280 in Ealing 00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:14.280 and this Dr. Daring was 00:16:14.280 --> 00:16:16.280 understandably extremely indignant 00:16:16.280 --> 00:16:17.280 and he sued for libel 00:16:17.280 --> 00:16:18.280 and he won 00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:20.310 he won one ha'penny 00:16:20.310 --> 00:16:22.310 the smallest coin of the realm 00:16:22.310 --> 00:16:23.310 worth less than one cent 00:16:23.310 --> 00:16:25.310 which is the way that an English jury says 00:16:25.310 --> 00:16:26.310 okay you're right 00:16:26.310 --> 00:16:28.310 but we don't want you to make any money out of it 00:16:28.310 --> 00:16:32.240 and Kimber had to fight that action for three years 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:34.240 the same as I had to fight the Lipset action 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:35.240 and for three years 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:37.240 his life was made hell 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:39.240 by the demands of the opposing lawyers 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.240 and his advice to me was 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.240 never ever get involved in a libel action 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:44.240 and I followed that advice for thirty years 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:46.660 and the problem then is 00:16:46.660 --> 00:16:47.660 if you have a thirty year writing career 00:16:47.660 --> 00:16:48.660 and the press gets to know 00:16:48.660 --> 00:16:50.660 that you don't defend yourself 00:16:50.660 --> 00:16:52.660 they think it's open season 00:16:52.660 --> 00:16:55.100 and by 1996 00:16:55.100 --> 00:16:58.490 I could see as I stood at the bottom of this valley 00:16:58.490 --> 00:17:01.490 a mudslide thundering down the slopes towards me 00:17:01.490 --> 00:17:05.260 and threatening to engulf me 00:17:05.260 --> 00:17:07.260 and the only way to stop that mudslide 00:17:07.260 --> 00:17:09.260 was to start frantically hammering pegs 00:17:09.260 --> 00:17:10.260 into the countryside 00:17:10.260 --> 00:17:12.700 which I did with these writs 00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:14.900 I issued a writ against Deborah Lipstadt 00:17:14.900 --> 00:17:15.900 for the 00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:18.410 book that she wrote 00:17:18.410 --> 00:17:19.410 attacking me 00:17:19.410 --> 00:17:20.950 called 00:17:20.950 --> 00:17:23.400 Denying the Holocaust 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:24.400 a week or two later 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:27.560 I issued a writ against the Guardian newspaper 00:17:27.560 --> 00:17:29.560 Guardian Newspapers Limited 00:17:29.560 --> 00:17:30.560 and an author 00:17:30.560 --> 00:17:31.560 Gita Sereny 00:17:31.560 --> 00:17:35.580 whom I mentioned at the beginning of our conference 00:17:35.580 --> 00:17:37.680 for an article that she wrote 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:39.680 in April 1996 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:42.680 in which she accused me of stealing from the Moscow archives 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:44.680 the glass plates with the Goebbels diaries 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:46.680 she accused me of cheating a colleague 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:47.680 a historian out of the credit 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.680 for finding the diaries 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:52.680 she said a number of other things that were totally untrue 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:55.100 and as for the Guardian newspapers 00:17:55.100 --> 00:17:56.100 who published that article 00:17:56.100 --> 00:17:58.100 they had waged a war against me for 25 years 00:17:58.100 --> 00:18:00.100 or more in fact 00:18:00.100 --> 00:18:03.450 some of you have asked me about this caricature of me 00:18:03.450 --> 00:18:05.480 which is on our mug 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:07.480 which I have turned into my own personal logo 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:09.860 it appeared as a caricature 00:18:09.860 --> 00:18:12.860 in the Guardian newspaper in England in 1977 00:18:12.860 --> 00:18:14.860 which is 24 years ago 00:18:14.860 --> 00:18:16.860 it has visible proof of the campaign they've conducted 00:18:16.860 --> 00:18:18.860 it was originally part of a larger company 00:18:18.860 --> 00:18:19.860 a cartoon that they'd published 00:18:19.860 --> 00:18:21.860 when my book Hitler's War was first published 00:18:21.860 --> 00:18:24.990 and the cartoon showed David Irving sitting at his desk 00:18:24.990 --> 00:18:25.990 in his office in London 00:18:25.990 --> 00:18:29.120 with a bust of Adolf Hitler on the desk 00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:32.120 only the bust of Adolf Hitler looks surprisingly like Mr Irving 00:18:32.120 --> 00:18:33.120 or is it the other way around 00:18:33.120 --> 00:18:36.120 but anyway this is the caricature which they published 00:18:36.120 --> 00:18:38.280 that's just a part of it 00:18:38.280 --> 00:18:40.280 and I bought the caricature from the cartoonist 00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:41.280 I paid him a handsome sum for it 00:18:41.280 --> 00:18:42.280 because it was so well done 00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:43.280 it was quite funny 00:18:43.280 --> 00:18:45.280 and I've used it ever since 00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:48.210 and since then the Guardian has continued 00:18:48.210 --> 00:18:50.210 a vicious campaign of attacks 00:18:50.210 --> 00:18:51.210 against me 00:18:51.210 --> 00:18:53.620 nothing that I write is good 00:18:53.620 --> 00:18:55.780 everything that I write is bad 00:18:55.780 --> 00:18:58.780 mendacious, distorted, lying, fallacious 00:18:58.780 --> 00:19:01.170 deliberately following a political agenda 00:19:01.170 --> 00:19:03.170 all the accusations that were made against me 00:19:03.170 --> 00:19:04.170 by Deborah Lippstadt 00:19:04.170 --> 00:19:07.390 and now they're surprised and pained 00:19:07.390 --> 00:19:09.390 to find themselves at the receiving end 00:19:09.390 --> 00:19:11.390 of a libel writ since 1996 00:19:11.390 --> 00:19:13.390 and they're hoping that I'll go away 00:19:13.390 --> 00:19:15.390 and to their horror I'm not going away 00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:17.390 because I've just issued fresh steps 00:19:17.390 --> 00:19:18.390 in that particular action 00:19:18.390 --> 00:19:20.390 and we're going to go through the whole hell 00:19:20.390 --> 00:19:22.390 next year or the year after 00:19:22.390 --> 00:19:25.380 because I don't lie down 00:19:25.380 --> 00:19:27.380 in Australia I was tactless enough 00:19:27.380 --> 00:19:29.380 to call myself a four flush shit 00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:31.900 you know the kind that you flush 00:19:31.900 --> 00:19:33.900 and you flush and you flush 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:35.900 and it just doesn't go away 00:19:35.900 --> 00:19:37.900 in this country which is much more polite 00:19:37.900 --> 00:19:39.900 I would say that I'm like one of those red ants 00:19:39.900 --> 00:19:41.900 that you can crush with your boot heel 00:19:41.900 --> 00:19:42.900 into the concrete 00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:44.900 and the ant is lying there on the ground 00:19:44.900 --> 00:19:46.900 after you've crushed you with his legs this way 00:19:46.900 --> 00:19:48.900 and looking like the battleship Tirpitz 00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:50.900 with all his guns array 00:19:50.900 --> 00:19:52.900 and completely splattered 00:19:52.900 --> 00:19:53.900 and even as you're looking at it 00:19:53.900 --> 00:19:54.900 it's straightening itself out 00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:56.900 and shaping up and smartening down 00:19:56.900 --> 00:19:58.900 and it walks off in front of you 00:19:58.900 --> 00:19:59.900 and then it's coming back the next day 00:19:59.900 --> 00:20:00.900 to do it all again 00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:01.900 and that's me 00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:04.250 they cannot destroy me 00:20:04.250 --> 00:20:06.660 at the end of the Lippstadt action last year 00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:08.660 which ended with a humiliating defeat for me 00:20:08.660 --> 00:20:09.660 as you know 00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:11.660 and I'm quite happy to say humiliating defeat 00:20:11.660 --> 00:20:13.660 because we know who inflicted the defeat 00:20:13.660 --> 00:20:15.660 it was the same Judge Gray 00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:16.660 Sir Charles Gray 00:20:16.660 --> 00:20:17.660 who had acted on behalf 00:20:17.660 --> 00:20:19.660 of the British war criminal Lord Aldington 00:20:19.660 --> 00:20:21.660 the man who sent tens of thousands 00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:23.660 of innocent Cossacks 00:20:23.660 --> 00:20:25.760 Russians, white Russians 00:20:25.760 --> 00:20:26.760 and Yugoslav 00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:27.760 back to their deaths 00:20:27.760 --> 00:20:30.760 in the hands of Stalin's and Tito's murderers 00:20:30.760 --> 00:20:32.760 Lord Aldington the British Army General 00:20:32.760 --> 00:20:33.760 knew what he was doing 00:20:33.760 --> 00:20:34.760 but claimed that he didn't 00:20:34.760 --> 00:20:36.760 when Count Tolstoy published the whole facts 00:20:36.760 --> 00:20:37.760 in two books 00:20:37.760 --> 00:20:38.760 Aldington sued for libel 00:20:38.760 --> 00:20:40.760 and Sir Charles Gray represented 00:20:40.760 --> 00:20:43.760 this British war criminal and mass murderer 00:20:43.760 --> 00:20:45.760 so he was always on the right side 00:20:45.760 --> 00:20:46.760 on the establishment side 00:20:46.760 --> 00:20:47.760 and there's not much you can do about it 00:20:47.760 --> 00:20:49.760 when a judge is appointed for a case 00:20:49.760 --> 00:20:50.760 you just have to go in and bear it 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:54.880 and he sat there with an impassioned face 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:55.880 mask-like face 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:56.880 for three months 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.880 before issuing this humiliating judgement 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.100 in which on the one hand he says 00:21:02.100 --> 00:21:03.100 David Irving is undoubtedly 00:21:03.100 --> 00:21:04.100 one of the world's greatest experts 00:21:04.100 --> 00:21:05.100 on World War II 00:21:05.100 --> 00:21:07.300 which is a line I've quoted 00:21:07.300 --> 00:21:09.300 on the jacket of the Churchill book 00:21:09.300 --> 00:21:12.100 and on the other hand he says 00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:13.100 well on the other hand 00:21:13.100 --> 00:21:15.100 he is mendacious, fallacious, distorted 00:21:15.100 --> 00:21:17.100 completely mistranslates documents 00:21:17.100 --> 00:21:19.100 has a political agenda to follow 00:21:19.100 --> 00:21:21.100 whitewashing Hitler and all the rest of it 00:21:21.100 --> 00:21:24.120 he says David Irving undoubtedly has reasons 00:21:24.120 --> 00:21:26.120 and with great justification 00:21:26.120 --> 00:21:28.120 he can criticise the Jews 00:21:28.120 --> 00:21:30.120 who've tried to destroy his life and career 00:21:30.120 --> 00:21:32.340 and this cannot be called anti-Semitism 00:21:32.340 --> 00:21:34.340 but David Irving is undoubtedly 00:21:34.340 --> 00:21:37.340 a vicious and devious anti-Semite 00:21:37.340 --> 00:21:39.700 he says without question 00:21:39.700 --> 00:21:41.700 David Irving isn't obsessed with racism 00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:42.700 he couldn't say that 00:21:42.700 --> 00:21:43.700 because of course I've employed 00:21:43.700 --> 00:21:45.700 any number of members of the ethnic minorities 00:21:45.700 --> 00:21:46.700 in my staff 00:21:46.700 --> 00:21:48.890 then on the next page of his judgement 00:21:48.890 --> 00:21:51.890 he says Irving is a vicious racist 00:21:51.890 --> 00:21:53.950 it's a strange kind of judgement 00:21:53.950 --> 00:21:54.950 you read it 00:21:54.950 --> 00:21:56.950 rather like a foreign office document 00:21:56.950 --> 00:21:58.950 which would always have one paragraph 00:21:58.950 --> 00:21:59.950 giving one viewpoint 00:21:59.950 --> 00:22:00.950 and then the next paragraph would say 00:22:00.950 --> 00:22:02.110 but on the other hand 00:22:02.110 --> 00:22:04.110 and that's how he wrote his judgement 00:22:04.110 --> 00:22:05.110 it's as though there were two judge grades 00:22:05.110 --> 00:22:07.110 one of whom who saw the truth 00:22:07.110 --> 00:22:09.300 and recognised that I was right 00:22:09.300 --> 00:22:11.300 and the other of whom saw the writing on the wall 00:22:11.300 --> 00:22:13.300 and knew that if he found it in my favour 00:22:13.300 --> 00:22:14.300 then he would be smeared 00:22:14.300 --> 00:22:16.300 for the rest of his young career as a judge 00:22:16.300 --> 00:22:18.400 because he'd only just become a judge 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:20.400 and that he would never be left in peace 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.400 we had one or two judges like that in England 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.400 who were always the target of attack by the press 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:28.400 the name of Justice Milford Stevenson comes to mind 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:30.400 always the target of vicious attack by the press 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:31.400 sometimes principled 00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:33.400 most often unprincipled 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:34.400 and he didn't want to go that way 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:35.400 the writing was on the wall 00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:37.400 during the whole of the Lipstadt trial 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:38.400 because every day 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:39.400 after two or three days 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:41.400 the press was subjecting me 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.720 as the complainant in this case 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.720 to a vicious attack 00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:47.720 in editorial columns 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:48.720 and in the news columns 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:49.720 and in opinion columns 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:50.720 and in the letter columns 00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:52.720 every possible document 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:53.720 and article 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:55.720 and report 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:57.720 was filed to make me look 00:22:57.720 --> 00:22:58.720 like a devious 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:00.880 vicious and unprincipled writer 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:02.880 on one occasion as I said earlier 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:03.880 there was a whole page article 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:05.880 in the Guardian newspaper 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.010 attacking me 00:23:08.010 --> 00:23:10.010 with a huge photograph of me 00:23:10.010 --> 00:23:11.010 and the headline 00:23:11.010 --> 00:23:13.010 the bogeyman of the nursery 00:23:13.010 --> 00:23:15.710 halfway through this trial 00:23:15.710 --> 00:23:18.710 I repeatedly appealed to Judge Gray 00:23:18.710 --> 00:23:21.710 I said this is contempt of court 00:23:21.710 --> 00:23:24.000 what these newspapers are doing 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:25.000 and he said 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.000 it would normally be contempt of court 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:28.000 if this was a jury action 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:29.000 but I'm sitting here without a jury 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:32.160 and I can ignore these newspaper reports 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.160 well he can say that 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:34.160 but of course he can't ignore 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:35.160 the newspaper reports 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:36.160 the newspapers were uttering 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:37.160 a warning to him 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:38.160 of what would happen 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:40.380 if he found in my favor 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:41.380 the courtroom was awash 00:23:41.380 --> 00:23:43.380 with money and hatred 00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:44.380 and it was all over the other side 00:23:44.380 --> 00:23:45.380 of the courtroom 00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:46.380 and I was standing alone 00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:47.380 on my side of the courtroom 00:23:47.380 --> 00:23:49.380 fighting this one battle 00:23:49.380 --> 00:23:50.380 fighting a proud battle 00:23:50.380 --> 00:23:52.380 because I knew I was right 00:23:52.380 --> 00:23:53.380 and I knew we were making 00:23:53.380 --> 00:23:54.380 point after point after point 00:23:54.380 --> 00:23:56.480 people were going home 00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:57.480 in the evenings 00:23:57.480 --> 00:23:58.480 they were meeting me 00:23:58.480 --> 00:23:59.480 in the corridors outside 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:00.480 saying good lord 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:01.480 I never knew that 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:02.480 I was 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:03.480 and even in his own judgment 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:04.480 Judge Gray is forced to say 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:05.480 when he comes to the question 00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:06.480 of Auschwitz 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:07.900 and the reason 00:24:07.900 --> 00:24:09.900 the strange paradox 00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:10.900 that on the one hand 00:24:10.900 --> 00:24:11.900 you've got any number of documents 00:24:11.900 --> 00:24:13.900 that document and authenticate 00:24:13.900 --> 00:24:15.900 the shootings on the eastern front 00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:16.900 by the gangsters 00:24:16.900 --> 00:24:17.900 like that SS General 00:24:17.900 --> 00:24:18.900 I was talking about 00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:19.900 SS General Jekyll 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:21.310 and on the other hand 00:24:21.310 --> 00:24:22.310 you haven't got a single document 00:24:22.310 --> 00:24:23.310 that authenticates Auschwitz 00:24:23.310 --> 00:24:24.310 as a killing center 00:24:24.310 --> 00:24:25.310 or exterminator 00:24:25.310 --> 00:24:26.310 or extermination camp 00:24:26.310 --> 00:24:27.410 not a single document 00:24:27.410 --> 00:24:28.410 that shows that 00:24:28.410 --> 00:24:29.410 that building crematorium two 00:24:29.410 --> 00:24:31.660 in Auschwitz 00:24:31.660 --> 00:24:32.660 was a purpose built 00:24:32.660 --> 00:24:34.790 death chamber 00:24:34.790 --> 00:24:36.210 and in his judgment 00:24:36.210 --> 00:24:37.210 Judge Gray said 00:24:37.210 --> 00:24:38.210 well I have to admit 00:24:38.210 --> 00:24:39.210 that I like most people 00:24:39.210 --> 00:24:40.210 in this country 00:24:40.210 --> 00:24:41.210 I suppose 00:24:41.210 --> 00:24:42.210 had always thought 00:24:42.210 --> 00:24:43.210 that there was any number 00:24:43.210 --> 00:24:44.210 of documents 00:24:44.210 --> 00:24:45.560 in that direction 00:24:45.560 --> 00:24:46.560 that supported that view 00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:47.560 and I was rather surprised 00:24:47.560 --> 00:24:48.560 he says 00:24:48.560 --> 00:24:50.260 that the evidence 00:24:50.260 --> 00:24:51.260 given to me 00:24:51.260 --> 00:24:52.260 by the defense 00:24:52.260 --> 00:24:53.260 was that there were 00:24:53.260 --> 00:24:54.260 no such documents 00:24:54.260 --> 00:24:55.260 as Mr. Irving said 00:24:55.260 --> 00:24:56.260 however 00:24:56.260 --> 00:24:57.260 the eyewitnesses 00:24:57.260 --> 00:24:58.260 all confirm 00:24:58.260 --> 00:24:59.260 and bear out 00:24:59.260 --> 00:25:00.260 that this building 00:25:00.260 --> 00:25:01.260 was a purpose built 00:25:01.260 --> 00:25:02.420 gas chamber 00:25:02.420 --> 00:25:03.420 he totally 00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:04.420 he said 00:25:04.420 --> 00:25:05.460 Mr. Irving says 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:06.460 that the holes 00:25:06.460 --> 00:25:07.620 in the roof 00:25:07.620 --> 00:25:08.620 through which 00:25:08.620 --> 00:25:09.620 the cyclone was poured 00:25:09.620 --> 00:25:10.680 do not exist 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:11.680 as the defense's 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:12.680 own witness 00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:13.680 Van Pelt 00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:14.680 had testified 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:15.900 in his own report 00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:16.900 admitted the holes 00:25:16.900 --> 00:25:17.900 aren't there 00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:18.900 but the judge 00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:19.900 then went on to say 00:25:19.900 --> 00:25:20.900 however 00:25:20.900 --> 00:25:21.900 the five eyewitnesses 00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:22.900 confirmed that the holes 00:25:22.900 --> 00:25:23.900 were there 00:25:23.900 --> 00:25:24.900 and therefore they were 00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:25.900 he disregarded 00:25:25.900 --> 00:25:26.900 and preferred 00:25:26.900 --> 00:25:27.900 to believe 00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:28.900 the eyewitness evidence 00:25:28.900 --> 00:25:29.900 of five witnesses 00:25:29.900 --> 00:25:30.900 who weren't produced 00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:31.900 in court 00:25:31.900 --> 00:25:32.900 for me to cross-examine 00:25:32.900 --> 00:25:33.900 and make 00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:34.900 and to test 00:25:34.900 --> 00:25:35.900 the validity 00:25:35.900 --> 00:25:36.900 of their expertise 00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:37.900 or what they had 00:25:37.900 --> 00:25:38.900 actually claimed to see 00:25:38.900 --> 00:25:39.900 I could have run 00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:40.900 rings around 00:25:40.900 --> 00:25:41.900 those eyewitnesses 00:25:41.900 --> 00:25:42.900 had they come 00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:43.900 into that courtroom 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:44.900 one in particular 00:25:44.900 --> 00:25:45.900 Ada Bimko 00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:46.900 who said that 00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:47.900 she had seen 00:25:47.900 --> 00:25:48.900 the cyanide 00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:49.900 she said that 00:25:49.900 --> 00:25:50.900 I was taken into 00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:51.900 one of the gas chambers 00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:52.900 by a friend 00:25:52.900 --> 00:25:53.900 who was an SS officer 00:25:53.900 --> 00:25:54.900 oh yes 00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:55.900 Ada Bimko 00:25:55.900 --> 00:25:56.900 now is Hannah Rosenzaft 00:25:56.900 --> 00:25:57.900 and she's a member 00:25:57.900 --> 00:25:58.900 of the governing body 00:25:58.900 --> 00:25:59.900 of the Holocaust 00:25:59.900 --> 00:26:00.900 Memorial Museum 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:01.900 in Washington 00:26:01.900 --> 00:26:02.900 she said 00:26:02.900 --> 00:26:03.900 I was taken in there 00:26:03.900 --> 00:26:04.900 by a friend 00:26:04.900 --> 00:26:05.900 who was an SS officer 00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:06.900 and he showed me 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:07.900 the giant cylinders 00:26:07.900 --> 00:26:09.990 containing the gas 00:26:09.990 --> 00:26:10.990 hello 00:26:10.990 --> 00:26:12.220 the gas 00:26:12.220 --> 00:26:13.220 allegedly 00:26:13.220 --> 00:26:14.220 in the 00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:15.220 authenticated 00:26:15.220 --> 00:26:16.220 Wiesenthal 00:26:16.220 --> 00:26:17.220 Center version 00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:18.220 came in tins 00:26:18.220 --> 00:26:19.220 rather like 00:26:19.220 --> 00:26:20.220 Heinz Beans 00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:22.500 these tins 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:23.500 were open 00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:24.500 they were tins 00:26:24.500 --> 00:26:25.500 this size 00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:26.500 one or two kilograms 00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:27.500 and the tins 00:26:27.500 --> 00:26:28.500 of pellets 00:26:28.500 --> 00:26:29.500 are the giant cylinders 00:26:29.500 --> 00:26:30.500 of gas and pipes 00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:31.500 that she describes 00:26:31.500 --> 00:26:32.500 in her eyewitness testimony 00:26:32.500 --> 00:26:33.500 as a result of which 00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:34.500 several men were 00:26:34.500 --> 00:26:35.500 hanged by the British 00:26:35.500 --> 00:26:36.500 in Hamburg 00:26:36.500 --> 00:26:38.580 after the war 00:26:38.580 --> 00:26:39.580 Tesch and Weinbach 00:26:39.580 --> 00:26:40.580 for example 00:26:40.580 --> 00:26:41.580 the two officials 00:26:41.580 --> 00:26:42.580 of the company 00:26:42.580 --> 00:26:43.580 that made these 00:26:43.580 --> 00:26:44.580 cyclone pellets 00:26:44.580 --> 00:26:45.580 which were pesticide pellets 00:26:45.580 --> 00:26:46.580 they were hanged 00:26:46.580 --> 00:26:47.580 by the British for this 00:26:47.580 --> 00:26:49.130 on her evidence 00:26:49.130 --> 00:26:50.130 she wasn't produced 00:26:50.130 --> 00:26:51.130 in that courtroom 00:26:51.130 --> 00:26:52.130 she wasn't 00:26:52.130 --> 00:26:53.130 cross-examined 00:26:53.130 --> 00:26:54.130 just a statement 00:26:54.130 --> 00:26:55.130 by her 00:26:55.130 --> 00:26:56.130 sworn on oath 00:26:56.130 --> 00:26:57.130 was produced 00:26:57.130 --> 00:26:58.130 that was the way 00:26:58.130 --> 00:26:59.130 these war crimes trials 00:26:59.130 --> 00:27:00.130 were conducted 00:27:00.130 --> 00:27:01.190 by these two men 00:27:01.190 --> 00:27:02.190 and the first one 00:27:02.190 --> 00:27:03.190 was Mr.Bendel 00:27:03.190 --> 00:27:04.190 I mean 00:27:04.190 --> 00:27:05.190 I'm not going to go 00:27:05.190 --> 00:27:06.190 into the eyewitness evidence 00:27:06.190 --> 00:27:07.190 of these 00:27:07.190 --> 00:27:08.190 but the witnesses 00:27:08.190 --> 00:27:09.190 who would 00:27:09.190 --> 00:27:10.190 who describe 00:27:10.190 --> 00:27:11.190 what they had seen 00:27:11.190 --> 00:27:12.190 at Auschwitz 00:27:12.190 --> 00:27:13.480 who described 00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:14.480 these holes 00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:15.480 their testimony 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:16.480 of Serb 00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:17.480 Serd 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:18.480 another one 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:19.900 was Tauber 00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:20.900 who Mark Weber 00:27:20.900 --> 00:27:21.900 mentioned yesterday 00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:22.900 Tauber 00:27:22.900 --> 00:27:23.990 the eyewitness 00:27:23.990 --> 00:27:24.990 of the holes 00:27:24.990 --> 00:27:25.990 he describes 00:27:25.990 --> 00:27:26.990 elsewhere 00:27:26.990 --> 00:27:27.990 in his testimony 00:27:27.990 --> 00:27:28.990 how 00:27:30.370 --> 00:27:34.390 They made sausages of human flesh in the crematorium, according to him. 00:27:35.390 --> 00:27:36.730 The judge said, oh, yes, how interesting. 00:27:37.110 --> 00:27:37.910 And he believes it. 00:27:39.380 --> 00:27:41.440 Then there's that word sonderkommando itself. 00:27:41.600 --> 00:27:48.600 I mean, sonderkommando, as any German historian will tell you, is a special unit, a squad, a troop, a commando. 00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:56.940 But it's used in all the Holocaust documents as though a sonderkommando is a man, which no way can it be in the German language. 00:27:57.040 --> 00:27:58.980 But every historian has sucked up that word. 00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:05.360 And the sonderkommandos themselves, who are now, they're one or two who are still drifting around in Israel, claiming they were sonderkommandos and God how they suffered. 00:28:05.500 --> 00:28:06.420 And, yes, please, me too. 00:28:08.560 --> 00:28:09.980 They say, yes, I was a sonderkommando. 00:28:10.040 --> 00:28:12.900 But if you were a sonderkommando, then you wouldn't call yourself a sonderkommando. 00:28:12.980 --> 00:28:14.920 You would say, I was a member of a sonderkommando. 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:23.000 Yet they've all kind of drifted into this conformist stream of versions of things that happened in their own view and in their own imagination. 00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:24.680 And they come to believe that really did happen. 00:28:26.500 --> 00:28:31.060 It's human nature, as I've said so often, to believe that these things have happened. 00:28:31.180 --> 00:28:31.540 Particularly. 00:28:31.760 --> 00:28:35.300 If you were there, and the people who were in Auschwitz undoubtedly did suffer. 00:28:36.610 --> 00:28:38.950 No one's saying that they had an easy time when they were there. 00:28:39.570 --> 00:28:41.550 Even the survivors didn't have an easy time. 00:28:42.050 --> 00:28:45.750 But after the war, they had been asked about what it was like in Auschwitz. 00:28:46.350 --> 00:28:52.710 And it is not politically correct or moot to say, well, I was in Auschwitz, but not very much happened. 00:28:52.790 --> 00:28:54.170 Here I am to tell the tale about it. 00:28:54.870 --> 00:28:56.790 No one's going to be sorry for them then or have compassion. 00:28:56.790 --> 00:29:01.610 Their aunts and uncles and nieces and nephews and descendants and grandchildren. 00:29:02.210 --> 00:29:04.310 Want to hear from them about the gas chambers. 00:29:04.450 --> 00:29:05.850 Because that's what everyone talks about. 00:29:05.970 --> 00:29:07.370 And so they talk about the gas chambers. 00:29:07.410 --> 00:29:08.990 Because they can talk about the gas chambers. 00:29:09.030 --> 00:29:10.470 Because they've read about the gas chambers. 00:29:11.010 --> 00:29:12.670 They've seen movies about the gas chambers. 00:29:13.110 --> 00:29:15.890 And haven't I seen pictures of bodies being bulldozed into pits? 00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:21.380 The number of letters that I've received over the last two or three years vilifying me and saying, 00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:23.140 how can you say these things didn't happen? 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:26.620 I've seen the movies taken by the U.S. troops of what they found. 00:29:27.790 --> 00:29:28.890 I say, hold it a minute. 00:29:29.560 --> 00:29:32.600 If they're U.S. troops, they went anywhere in the eastern zone. 00:29:32.600 --> 00:29:34.240 Where the so-called death camps existed. 00:29:35.060 --> 00:29:36.380 They were in Buchenwald. 00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:39.600 Or they were British troops in Bergen-Belsen. 00:29:40.360 --> 00:29:43.000 And the British troops are, if you look at the pictures of the bulldozers, 00:29:43.120 --> 00:29:46.220 it's a British soldier who's driving the bulldozer wearing British army uniform. 00:29:46.800 --> 00:29:50.500 Frantically trying to dispose of these typhus plagued, plague-ridden bodies. 00:29:51.360 --> 00:29:55.420 Burying them in pits before the plague gets any worse and engulfs all the occupying forces too. 00:29:56.180 --> 00:29:57.300 They're horrifying pictures. 00:29:57.820 --> 00:30:00.580 And you know how powerful the visual image can be. 00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:02.480 But I have to plead with you. 00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:02.580 Yes. 00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:05.080 When you're in court in London, when you see a visual image, 00:30:05.180 --> 00:30:08.440 that doesn't necessarily mean that what the voiceover is telling you is true. 00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:13.260 They're showing you a picture, and yet it's something totally different they're telling you about. 00:30:14.060 --> 00:30:16.860 Eberhard Jeckel, the famous German historian, Holocaust historian, 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:18.060 professor of history at Stuttgart. 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:21.540 He will show you, as he's shown on television in Germany in a film called 00:30:21.540 --> 00:30:25.020 Der Tod ein Meister aus Deutschland, Death, a Master from Germany. 00:30:25.280 --> 00:30:26.040 He shows a picture. 00:30:26.380 --> 00:30:29.080 You're standing on a bridge, and underneath the bridge in front of you, 00:30:29.080 --> 00:30:33.540 going all the way down the railroad platform, is a trainload of coal trucks. 00:30:33.560 --> 00:30:40.980 And these coal trucks are laden with human beings, standing up, packed in, two or three hundred at a time. 00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:43.480 And the voiceover on the television series says, 00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:49.980 Meanwhile, the Romanian Jews are shipped aboard trains and taken to the Auschwitz gas chambers, where they're exterminated. 00:30:49.980 --> 00:30:54.040 And you've seen the picture, and you think afterwards, well, it must happen I saw the picture of it. 00:30:54.040 --> 00:30:58.040 But that picture, if you look at the original, the rubber stamp on the back, which I've got, 00:30:58.040 --> 00:31:01.040 shows it comes from the Hamburg railway station archives. 00:31:01.040 --> 00:31:02.040 Nothing to do with Romania. 00:31:02.040 --> 00:31:03.880 It's been doctored. 00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.880 To remove the women standing on the platform and carrying shopping bags. 00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:12.550 It's been doctored to remove the train on the next platform, which has a double-decker train, 00:31:12.550 --> 00:31:15.550 which didn't exist in Romania, it only existed in Germany at that time. 00:31:15.550 --> 00:31:19.550 It's been doctored to remove a building, which shows it to be quite clearly Hamburg. 00:31:19.550 --> 00:31:24.550 And above all, it's been doctored to remove the identity, the caption on the back of the photograph, 00:31:24.550 --> 00:31:29.550 which shows the photograph was taken in 1946, a year after the war was over, 00:31:29.550 --> 00:31:33.580 and it shows German shoppers, German civilians, 00:31:33.580 --> 00:31:37.840 on a shopping expedition to the Ruhr, being packed into the coal trucks 00:31:37.840 --> 00:31:40.840 for this three or four hour trip down to the Ruhr to do some shopping. 00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:45.320 Quite the opposite of the way it's used by the Holocaust historians. 00:31:45.320 --> 00:31:49.510 To illustrate the horror of their own story, their own legend, 00:31:49.510 --> 00:31:52.510 they had to produce again and again fake photos. 00:31:52.510 --> 00:31:55.510 The Wiesenthal Center, until recently, when we all pointed it out to them, 00:31:55.510 --> 00:32:02.510 pointed it out to the Internet community, had a photograph on their website of a smoking chimney at Auschwitz, 00:32:02.510 --> 00:32:05.510 as the Hungarian civilians arrived. 00:32:05.510 --> 00:32:10.510 And there's this crematorium building at the back with smoke belching out of the chimney, 00:32:10.510 --> 00:32:14.510 and the caption says, as these Hungarians arrive in the foreground, 00:32:14.510 --> 00:32:18.510 in the background you can see on the photograph the chimney with the smoke pouring out of it. 00:32:18.510 --> 00:32:22.280 On the original photograph, the smoke isn't there. 00:32:22.280 --> 00:32:24.280 It's been put in by the Wiesenthal Center. 00:32:24.280 --> 00:32:26.370 And that's the way they do it. 00:32:26.370 --> 00:32:28.370 You can look at any other aspect of history. 00:32:28.370 --> 00:32:31.370 Take a look at my Nuremberg book, and you'll see I have a photograph there, 00:32:31.370 --> 00:32:33.370 not just in black and white, but in color, 00:32:33.370 --> 00:32:37.370 of the mass cremations of the bodies on the Altstadt, 00:32:37.370 --> 00:32:42.370 in the marketplace in the center of Dresden after the British air raid in 1945. 00:32:42.370 --> 00:32:47.370 Every other aspect of history, you've got authentic photographs showing the atrocities, 00:32:47.370 --> 00:32:53.520 or the events, of this worst atrocity of all times, 00:32:53.520 --> 00:32:56.520 involving not just one or two people, but six million, allegedly. 00:32:56.520 --> 00:33:02.520 There's not one single authentic photograph that stands up to investigation by independent experts. 00:33:02.520 --> 00:33:04.720 Even that photograph we were talking about, 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.720 yesterday, the one with the four smudges on the roof of crematorium four, 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:09.720 you've got to be very suspicious about that. 00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:14.720 It's been pointed out by somebody that if you look at the preceding photographs on the same roll, 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.720 the ones following it, there's not four smudges, but six smudges. 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:19.720 We don't know what's happened there. 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:26.840 What we do know is that the man who published them in the CIA series in 1979, approximately, 00:33:26.840 --> 00:33:29.880 a man called Dino Brugioni, 00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:34.900 he was the man, together with another CIA expert who published that book, 00:33:34.900 --> 00:33:38.900 with the photographs of the aerial photographs of Auschwitz, 00:33:38.900 --> 00:33:43.900 with the identification of the columns of prisoners lining up waiting to be taken to the gas chambers, 00:33:43.900 --> 00:33:45.900 all these highly suspect things. 00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:46.900 We know two things. 00:33:46.900 --> 00:33:49.900 The National Archives, in their version of the photograph, 00:33:49.900 --> 00:33:53.900 issues a leaflet distancing themselves from the captions, 00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:56.900 making it quite plain that these are not the original captions, 00:33:56.900 --> 00:33:59.930 wartime captions, that they've been added subsequently. 00:33:59.930 --> 00:34:02.930 We also know that Mr. Dino Brugioni, who was the one who published the book on them, 00:34:02.930 --> 00:34:03.930 has subsequently, 00:34:03.930 --> 00:34:06.930 within the last year or two, published a book on photo forgery, 00:34:06.930 --> 00:34:08.930 on which he is an expert. 00:34:08.930 --> 00:34:12.090 In fact, those of you who were looking at Mr. Fricken-Smith's book table yesterday 00:34:12.090 --> 00:34:15.090 will have seen that book was actually on offer. 00:34:15.090 --> 00:34:17.090 The Brugioni book on photo forgery. 00:34:17.090 --> 00:34:20.090 I put all these things to the court in London last year, 00:34:20.090 --> 00:34:25.090 because I was so well funded by my internet resources and my international friends. 00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:29.090 I could never have done that myself without the assistance of many people in this room, 00:34:29.090 --> 00:34:33.090 who belonged either to the advisory board that I informally put together, 00:34:33.090 --> 00:34:35.090 or to the financial resource center, 00:34:35.090 --> 00:34:38.480 which provided me with the means to carry on fighting. 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:40.480 It isn't easy to carry on a fight like that. 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:42.480 You came back from the court at five o'clock. 00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:46.480 As I say, you would then be on the computer from seven o'clock until midnight. 00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.480 You'd then be doing your own personal business, housekeeping, 00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:51.480 and all the other matters until one or two in the morning, 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:54.480 and then I had to be up at five in the morning to take the child to school. 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:57.570 So during the court days, I never had more than four or five hours. 00:34:57.570 --> 00:35:00.990 And yet, what a great battle it was. 00:35:00.990 --> 00:35:02.990 What a sense of triumph to know that, 00:35:02.990 --> 00:35:10.040 there I was in court with the eyes of the press of the world on this one battle. 00:35:10.040 --> 00:35:14.040 Day after day, that press bench was filled with fifty or sixty journalists, 00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:17.040 and I would go to court and I would hand out to these journalists the reports, 00:35:17.040 --> 00:35:20.040 the documents, the photo stats, the pictures and the diagrams, 00:35:20.040 --> 00:35:22.040 to ensure that they were properly briefed. 00:35:22.040 --> 00:35:25.040 And the enemy would do exactly the same with their own documents. 00:35:25.040 --> 00:35:27.040 But of course, they had immensely better resources. 00:35:27.040 --> 00:35:30.040 They had whole staffs working for them. 00:35:30.040 --> 00:35:33.040 Two of the biggest law firms in London, and the best equipped. 00:35:34.430 --> 00:35:38.430 And then the final day came of the closing speeches, 00:35:38.430 --> 00:35:40.840 the middle of March, 00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:43.840 and I'd been given ten days to write the closing speech, 00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:46.840 which was very useful, because I couldn't have done it in just one or two. 00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:50.840 Of course, you begin writing the closing speech even before the trial begins, so to speak. 00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:56.880 And the closing speech that I delivered was a five-hour speech to the courtroom. 00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:59.880 We had two hundred journalists packed into the courtroom. 00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:02.880 And I've got to admit that the press dealt with it very fairly. 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.880 They reproduced large sections from my closing speech, 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:08.880 and they reproduced it very fairly. 00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.880 So we did a lot of damage with that. 00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:17.450 And on the day of the judgment, April the 11th or 12th last year, 00:36:17.450 --> 00:36:21.450 of course, I knew a day ahead what the judgment was going to be. 00:36:21.450 --> 00:36:25.450 I flew back from Florida the day before, carrying a bicycle I'd bought in Florida for Jessica, 00:36:25.450 --> 00:36:28.450 a big bike, her first big two-wheeler. 00:36:28.450 --> 00:36:32.450 And I was allowed to pick up the judgment the day beforehand. 00:36:33.450 --> 00:36:36.960 And I went into the courthouse, and I picked up the judgment, 00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:39.960 and I went outside and held a cab and sat in the back of the cab, 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:40.960 and I opened the judgment. 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:42.960 The judgment was 400 pages. 00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:45.190 I'm sorry, 333 pages long. 00:36:45.190 --> 00:36:48.190 And I turned straight to the last page, and I could see the judgment said, 00:36:48.190 --> 00:36:50.190 I therefore will fine for the defendants. 00:36:50.190 --> 00:36:52.190 And I thought, well, there's no point in reading the rest of it. 00:36:52.190 --> 00:36:56.960 And I just put it aside and went home and assembled the bicycle for Jessica for the rest of the day. 00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:00.020 And that night, at midnight, there's a ring on the doorbell. 00:37:00.020 --> 00:37:03.020 It's going to be read out in open court the next day, of course, the judgment. 00:37:03.020 --> 00:37:05.020 So I know the next day is going to be an extremely, 00:37:05.020 --> 00:37:07.720 extremely unpleasant event. 00:37:07.720 --> 00:37:09.720 And that night, there was a ring on the doorbell, 00:37:09.720 --> 00:37:13.720 and it was a courier from the enemy law firms bringing me a ring binder, 00:37:13.720 --> 00:37:16.720 the last of hundreds of ring binders that they had dunked on me during the trial. 00:37:16.720 --> 00:37:20.650 And this was a ring binder containing all the costs 00:37:20.650 --> 00:37:23.650 that they were going to ask the court the next day that I should pay. 00:37:23.650 --> 00:37:25.650 Because in England, we have a rule. 00:37:25.650 --> 00:37:28.650 You've heard it said that England is the easiest place to bring a libel action. 00:37:28.650 --> 00:37:29.650 It isn't. 00:37:29.650 --> 00:37:32.650 In England, we have a rule that flattens you, and that is loser pays all. 00:37:32.650 --> 00:37:35.650 Not like the United States, where each side goes away licking its wounds. 00:37:37.040 --> 00:37:41.040 In England, the loser pays his own costs and the enemy's costs. 00:37:41.040 --> 00:37:44.420 And they had run up a bill of eight million dollars, six million pounds. 00:37:44.420 --> 00:37:47.420 And here was this bill that they were sending to me 00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:49.420 so that they could justify going before the judge the next day. 00:37:49.420 --> 00:37:51.420 They knew they were going to get judgment in their favor, 00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:53.420 and they were going to leap to their feet and say, 00:37:53.420 --> 00:37:57.760 now we ask for an order for costs to destroy Mr. Irving. 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:00.760 And I opened that ring binder, and I started reading, 00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:03.760 and my eyes were as big as saucers. 00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:06.890 It turned out that there are neutral witnesses. 00:38:06.890 --> 00:38:07.890 Professor Richard Evans, 00:38:07.890 --> 00:38:09.890 the eminent historian from Cambridge, 00:38:09.890 --> 00:38:11.890 the totally neutral historian from Cambridge, 00:38:11.890 --> 00:38:13.890 had been paid a quarter of a million dollars 00:38:13.890 --> 00:38:16.890 to express an opinion about my books. 00:38:16.890 --> 00:38:19.890 Paid notably, of course, only by Professor Lipstadt, not by me. 00:38:19.890 --> 00:38:22.990 And he was going to express an independent opinion about my books 00:38:22.990 --> 00:38:24.990 and my research and my writings. 00:38:24.990 --> 00:38:27.990 Professor Van Pelt, a quarter million dollars 00:38:27.990 --> 00:38:30.990 to stand in that witness box and say that, yes, 00:38:30.990 --> 00:38:33.990 that building was undoubtedly a homicidal gas chamber 00:38:33.990 --> 00:38:35.990 and not the mortuary that it claimed to be. 00:38:35.990 --> 00:38:36.990 And so on. 00:38:36.990 --> 00:38:39.990 We had all been paid colossal sums of money, 00:38:39.990 --> 00:38:42.690 none of which we had known about. 00:38:42.690 --> 00:38:44.690 When I had time that night, it was a horrible night, 00:38:44.690 --> 00:38:46.690 I remember, because I knew that the next day 00:38:46.690 --> 00:38:49.460 was going to be one of the worst days of my life. 00:38:49.460 --> 00:38:52.520 I'd anticipated what was coming. 00:38:52.520 --> 00:38:56.520 It was the penalty for the three-month humiliation 00:38:56.520 --> 00:38:58.520 that I'd inflicted on the Holocaust legend. 00:38:58.520 --> 00:39:01.120 And I spent two hours that night 00:39:01.120 --> 00:39:04.120 putting all these financial details on my website. 00:39:04.120 --> 00:39:06.250 You can see it's still there now. 00:39:06.250 --> 00:39:08.640 There's a folder there on my website 00:39:08.640 --> 00:39:10.640 containing all the payments made 00:39:10.640 --> 00:39:14.640 by neutral witnesses by Lippstadt and her lawyers. 00:39:14.640 --> 00:39:17.640 I frankly have to admit, I don't see how it can be legal. 00:39:17.640 --> 00:39:20.150 I didn't go to Canada and ask for a payment 00:39:20.150 --> 00:39:22.150 for testifying on behalf of Ernst Sönder 00:39:22.150 --> 00:39:24.150 as an expert witness. 00:39:24.150 --> 00:39:26.150 I would never have dreamed of asking for a quarter million dollars. 00:39:26.150 --> 00:39:28.150 And if I had, then I would be ashamed 00:39:28.150 --> 00:39:30.150 because I would know it would be difficult to be neutral about it. 00:39:30.150 --> 00:39:33.500 But these people had, without batting an eyelash, 00:39:33.500 --> 00:39:35.850 taken that kind of money. 00:39:35.850 --> 00:39:37.850 Not a single newspaper mentioned it, 00:39:37.850 --> 00:39:40.270 except, I have to admit, The Guardian. 00:39:40.270 --> 00:39:42.270 The Guardian in one column 00:39:42.270 --> 00:39:44.270 at the end of its story the next day 00:39:44.270 --> 00:39:46.270 referred to the fact that some of the expert witnesses 00:39:46.270 --> 00:39:49.270 had received sums of money of 70 or 80 or 90 thousand pounds 00:39:49.270 --> 00:39:50.270 for their evidence. 00:39:50.270 --> 00:39:53.270 But nobody dared to touch this very delicate matter 00:39:53.270 --> 00:39:55.270 because we can't suggest 00:39:55.270 --> 00:39:58.270 that these witnesses allowed themselves to be bribed. 00:39:58.270 --> 00:40:00.270 It would be wrong to suggest that 00:40:00.270 --> 00:40:02.270 and I want you to know that I'm not suggesting that here. 00:40:02.270 --> 00:40:05.780 But I must say that I personally would find it difficult 00:40:05.780 --> 00:40:08.780 to be neutral in a situation like that. 00:40:08.780 --> 00:40:12.000 And I am going to say that I consider that Richard Evans, 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:15.390 Professor Evans, was anything but neutral. 00:40:15.390 --> 00:40:17.390 You will see if you read the transcripts of the trial 00:40:17.390 --> 00:40:19.680 that are on the website 00:40:19.680 --> 00:40:21.680 that I challenge him on his neutrality. 00:40:21.680 --> 00:40:24.710 On the very first day, I said earlier, 00:40:24.710 --> 00:40:27.710 I said it's quite obvious that you are not only, 00:40:27.710 --> 00:40:30.710 the court has clearly gained the impression this morning, 00:40:30.710 --> 00:40:32.710 Professor Evans, that you dislike me. 00:40:32.710 --> 00:40:33.710 Is this true? 00:40:33.710 --> 00:40:34.770 And he said no. 00:40:34.770 --> 00:40:37.770 And I said but by your very posture, your manner, 00:40:37.770 --> 00:40:40.770 he stood with his hands in his pockets and his back to me half the time, 00:40:40.770 --> 00:40:42.770 that you dislike me, you dislike the books, 00:40:42.770 --> 00:40:45.770 you detest the writings, you loathe everything I stand for. 00:40:45.770 --> 00:40:47.770 It's quite obvious, isn't it? 00:40:47.770 --> 00:40:49.960 Can you confirm that? 00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:54.120 And he said, well no, I'm completely objective about you. 00:40:54.120 --> 00:40:56.350 And at the same time he was writing the book 00:40:56.350 --> 00:40:58.350 telling lies about Adolf Hitler, 00:40:58.350 --> 00:41:00.350 which is published in the United States, 00:41:00.350 --> 00:41:03.350 which is so vicious and so venomous about me 00:41:03.350 --> 00:41:05.480 at every possible level 00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:10.270 that it shows what he was really thinking. 00:41:10.270 --> 00:41:12.590 The true Richard Evans. 00:41:12.590 --> 00:41:14.590 The vicious, vindictive, lying, 00:41:14.590 --> 00:41:17.590 eternal socialist, eternal Marxist, 00:41:17.590 --> 00:41:18.590 eternal hater. 00:41:18.590 --> 00:41:19.590 Richard Evans. 00:41:19.590 --> 00:41:22.880 This little, nasty, scowling Welshman 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:24.880 has a racist remark for you. 00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:26.000 He says in his book, 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:28.000 Mr. Irving came into court every day 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:31.000 dressed in a drab, disheveled, ill-fitting suit 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:33.450 with beaten down shoes 00:41:33.450 --> 00:41:36.640 and his hair in a mess. 00:41:36.640 --> 00:41:39.920 Well, I was wearing the same suit as I'm wearing now. 00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:41.920 It's made by England's finest firm of tailors 00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:43.920 where the Duke of Edinburgh gets his suits. 00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:46.920 I had it made specifically 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:48.920 for the trial because I know how important it is 00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:50.920 to go in there wearing, so to speak, 00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:52.920 a suit of armor that puts you one cut above 00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:55.120 everybody else in the courtroom. 00:41:55.120 --> 00:41:57.120 The shoes equally were bought 00:41:57.120 --> 00:42:00.880 in one of England's finest cobblers. 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:04.400 So this is an example 00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:06.400 of how much he loathed me 00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:08.400 and how prepared he was 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:11.400 to tell lies in order to present a distorted picture. 00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:14.360 Which brings us to the appeal. 00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:17.680 After the judgment was read 00:42:17.680 --> 00:42:20.120 on April the 12th last year, 00:42:20.120 --> 00:42:21.120 I rose to my feet, 00:42:21.120 --> 00:42:23.120 very difficult in this packed courtroom. 00:42:23.120 --> 00:42:24.120 I wasn't wearing the jacket 00:42:24.120 --> 00:42:26.120 because I had been bombarded with eggs 00:42:26.120 --> 00:42:27.120 and missiles outside the courthouse 00:42:27.120 --> 00:42:29.120 by Professor Lipstadt's supporters 00:42:29.120 --> 00:42:31.350 while the police looked the other way. 00:42:31.350 --> 00:42:33.350 Not only I was bombarded, I have to say, 00:42:33.350 --> 00:42:35.350 as I drove up at the courthouse 00:42:35.350 --> 00:42:38.310 on April the 12th last year, 00:42:38.310 --> 00:42:40.310 I wasn't alone in the cab 00:42:40.310 --> 00:42:42.310 because the Washington Post had seen me 00:42:42.310 --> 00:42:43.310 in Oxford Street and said, 00:42:43.310 --> 00:42:45.310 Mr. Irving, do you want to share a cab with us? 00:42:45.310 --> 00:42:46.310 And I said, sure. 00:42:46.310 --> 00:42:49.370 So the Washington Post correspondent in London, 00:42:49.370 --> 00:42:51.370 Tom Reid, he sat next to me in the cab. 00:42:51.370 --> 00:42:53.370 And he got an exclusive interview with me 00:42:53.370 --> 00:42:55.370 in which I revealed to him for the first time 00:42:55.370 --> 00:42:57.370 that I was going to go down very heavily 00:42:57.370 --> 00:42:59.370 in the coming two hours in the courtroom. 00:42:59.370 --> 00:43:01.370 And as I got out of the cab, 00:43:01.370 --> 00:43:03.370 I could see the mob, the Marxist mob, 00:43:03.370 --> 00:43:05.370 with all their banners standing outside the courtroom. 00:43:05.370 --> 00:43:07.370 They had obviously been hired to come along for that morning 00:43:07.370 --> 00:43:09.370 by the opposing lawyers, in my view. 00:43:09.370 --> 00:43:11.690 And as I got out of the cab, 00:43:11.690 --> 00:43:13.690 I could see them stirring and 00:43:13.690 --> 00:43:15.690 it was obvious it was going to be 00:43:15.690 --> 00:43:17.690 running in the gauntlet to get into the courtroom. 00:43:17.690 --> 00:43:19.690 So I said to Tom, 00:43:19.690 --> 00:43:21.690 you walk that side of me, would you? 00:43:21.690 --> 00:43:24.200 So I put him on the left of me, 00:43:24.200 --> 00:43:26.200 which was between me and the mob. 00:43:26.200 --> 00:43:28.200 And he was quite happy. 00:43:28.200 --> 00:43:30.200 He hadn't seen them. He didn't know what was coming. 00:43:30.200 --> 00:43:32.200 You look at the photographs 00:43:32.200 --> 00:43:34.200 in the Washington Post that follow, 00:43:34.200 --> 00:43:36.200 and you can see him there doing this. 00:43:36.200 --> 00:43:38.200 And he was in a real mess 00:43:38.200 --> 00:43:40.200 when he got into the courthouse. 00:43:40.200 --> 00:43:42.200 And I stood in his shadow, so to speak. 00:43:42.200 --> 00:43:44.200 And only a few of the... 00:43:44.200 --> 00:43:46.200 Anyway, I was in the courtroom wearing just 00:43:46.200 --> 00:43:48.330 what you would call a vest, a waistcoat. 00:43:48.330 --> 00:43:54.000 And the judge read out his judgment 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:56.600 for two hours. 00:43:56.600 --> 00:43:58.600 And I then raised to my feet, and I said two things. 00:43:58.600 --> 00:44:00.600 I said, well, it's quite obvious from your lordship's judgment 00:44:00.600 --> 00:44:02.600 that I have failed. 00:44:02.600 --> 00:44:04.600 I haven't failed in my complaint, 00:44:04.600 --> 00:44:06.600 but I have failed to convince your lordship, 00:44:06.600 --> 00:44:08.600 despite all my rhetoric and oratory, 00:44:08.600 --> 00:44:10.600 that I am right, and for that I blame myself. 00:44:10.600 --> 00:44:12.600 Because it's quite obvious that I am right, 00:44:12.600 --> 00:44:14.600 but I have failed to convince your lordship. 00:44:14.600 --> 00:44:16.600 What I meant was, you're so dense, 00:44:16.600 --> 00:44:18.600 you haven't seen the points I'm trying to make, 00:44:18.600 --> 00:44:20.600 or you're so craven that you don't admit that I'm right. 00:44:20.600 --> 00:44:22.600 Both of which points, I have to say, 00:44:22.600 --> 00:44:24.600 I sympathize with him. 00:44:24.600 --> 00:44:26.800 I am a first time judge. 00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:28.800 I then said, 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:30.800 as the opposing lawyers leapt to their feet 00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:32.800 and asked for their six million pounds costs, 00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:34.800 I then said, well obviously there has to be a hearing on this, 00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:36.800 because we have certain points to make. 00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:38.800 Quite obviously it's wrong that they should have 00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:40.800 spent this huge sum of money on the defense. 00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.800 There are legal rules which prevent them, 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:44.800 what are called proportionality. 00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:46.800 And the judge agreed that there should be a hearing 00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:48.800 one month down the road. 00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:50.800 So they didn't get their pound of flesh, 00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:53.120 if I can put it delicately like that. 00:44:53.120 --> 00:44:55.120 And I then said, I want leave to appeal. 00:44:55.120 --> 00:44:57.660 I'm not going to give you leave to appeal. 00:44:57.660 --> 00:44:59.660 That may sound unfair, 00:44:59.660 --> 00:45:01.660 but in fact under the normal rules 00:45:01.660 --> 00:45:03.660 of English justice now, 00:45:03.660 --> 00:45:05.660 a judge is incumbent on a judge not to grant 00:45:05.660 --> 00:45:07.660 leave to appeal automatically. 00:45:07.660 --> 00:45:09.660 He really has to satisfy himself, 00:45:09.660 --> 00:45:11.660 there may be grants, and then he may give you 00:45:11.660 --> 00:45:13.660 leave to appeal. 00:45:13.660 --> 00:45:15.660 So we had to go to the court of appeal 00:45:15.660 --> 00:45:17.790 to ask for permission to appeal. 00:45:17.790 --> 00:45:19.790 It may sound a bit complicated, 00:45:19.790 --> 00:45:21.790 but that's what we had to do, 00:45:21.790 --> 00:45:24.110 and that's what we did. 00:45:24.110 --> 00:45:27.480 We had to go to the court of appeal to ask for 00:45:27.480 --> 00:45:29.480 permission to appeal. 00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:31.580 When we went to the court of appeal, 00:45:31.580 --> 00:45:33.580 they said we will consider this 00:45:33.580 --> 00:45:35.770 at a lengthy hearing, 00:45:35.770 --> 00:45:37.770 but we will consider the two matters 00:45:37.770 --> 00:45:40.600 in sequence, 00:45:40.600 --> 00:45:42.600 with no interruption. 00:45:42.600 --> 00:45:44.600 We will hear your application for permission 00:45:44.600 --> 00:45:46.600 followed simultaneously 00:45:46.600 --> 00:45:48.600 or subsequently by the appeal, 00:45:48.600 --> 00:45:50.600 and you must put all the material 00:45:50.600 --> 00:45:52.600 that you're going to use in the appeal 00:45:52.600 --> 00:45:54.600 in your application first. 00:45:54.600 --> 00:45:56.600 So we had to do the whole work for the appeal, 00:45:56.600 --> 00:45:58.600 which was immensely complicated and costly for us. 00:45:58.600 --> 00:46:00.920 At the end of the day, 00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:04.040 they refused us permission to appeal. 00:46:04.040 --> 00:46:06.040 So the appeal was never heard, 00:46:06.040 --> 00:46:08.040 and this is bad news and good news 00:46:08.040 --> 00:46:10.040 for various complicated legal reasons 00:46:10.040 --> 00:46:12.040 which I'm not going to go into here 00:46:12.040 --> 00:46:14.040 because I don't want my enemies in this action 00:46:14.040 --> 00:46:16.780 to get us through any action to know what's going on. 00:46:16.780 --> 00:46:18.780 And this particular videotape which we're making today 00:46:18.780 --> 00:46:20.780 will be shown in Australia, 00:46:20.780 --> 00:46:23.000 and through all these internet, 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:25.000 international connections that my enemies have, 00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:27.000 undoubtedly it will come back with the speed of light 00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:29.770 to my opponents in London. 00:46:29.770 --> 00:46:31.770 Suffice it to say that the appeal itself 00:46:31.770 --> 00:46:33.770 was fought in a dismal fashion. 00:46:33.770 --> 00:46:35.840 And I'm going to be arrogant enough 00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:37.840 to say that this is because I didn't fight it myself. 00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:39.930 As you know, 00:46:39.930 --> 00:46:41.930 I fought the hearing in the lower court 00:46:41.930 --> 00:46:44.060 by myself. 00:46:44.060 --> 00:46:46.060 And people say he who has 00:46:46.060 --> 00:46:48.060 taken to representing himself 00:46:48.060 --> 00:46:50.060 in a court of law has a fool for a client. 00:46:50.060 --> 00:46:52.540 Not so. 00:46:52.540 --> 00:46:54.540 The judge himself, Judge Gray, 00:46:54.540 --> 00:46:56.540 the odious Sir Charles Gray, 00:46:56.540 --> 00:46:58.540 who represented war criminals and others in the past, 00:46:58.540 --> 00:47:00.960 the odious Sir Charles Gray 00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:02.960 himself said in an interview with the Guardian, 00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:04.960 this newspaper, when questioned 00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:06.960 on that very point, 00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:08.960 do you think Irving was right to act on his own behalf in the lower court? 00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:10.960 His response was to the effect 00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:12.960 that nobody could have done it better 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:14.960 for the simple reason that I had 00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:16.960 the complete control of the historical facts 00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:19.080 at my fingertips. 00:47:19.080 --> 00:47:21.080 And those of you who have been involved in litigation 00:47:21.080 --> 00:47:23.080 will know there's nothing more infuriating 00:47:23.080 --> 00:47:25.080 than sitting behind your lawyer 00:47:25.080 --> 00:47:27.080 while your lawyer makes a mess of it. 00:47:27.080 --> 00:47:29.080 Because he hasn't got control of the facts. 00:47:29.080 --> 00:47:31.080 He doesn't know what happened. 00:47:31.080 --> 00:47:33.080 He doesn't know how many billable hours 00:47:33.080 --> 00:47:35.080 he can put into you. 00:47:35.080 --> 00:47:37.760 It's a cruel fact of law 00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:39.760 that the lawyer isn't going to know 00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:41.760 one-twentieth of what you know about the case. 00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:43.760 And you need to know the whole case 00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:45.760 in order to be able to leap instantly 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:47.760 on any misstatements and say, 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:49.760 but what about that? 00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:52.170 And your lawyer can't do that. 00:47:52.170 --> 00:47:54.170 So you're faced with the alternative in a court of law 00:47:54.170 --> 00:47:56.170 of having a lawyer who's a bad historian 00:47:56.170 --> 00:47:58.170 or a historian who's an indifferent lawyer. 00:47:58.170 --> 00:48:00.400 And I went for the alternative course 00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:02.400 and I learned enough of the law 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:04.400 to do with the primary court. 00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:06.400 I couldn't do that through the court of... 00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:08.400 I could have done it in the court of appeal. 00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:10.400 There's nothing technically or constitutionally 00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:12.400 to say you can't go alone into the court of appeal. 00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:14.400 But I'm not so arrogant as to think 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:16.400 that I could have persuaded three appeal court judges. 00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:18.520 So I hired a firm of lawyers 00:48:18.520 --> 00:48:20.970 called Goldsmiths 00:48:20.970 --> 00:48:22.970 with the obvious disadvantage 00:48:22.970 --> 00:48:24.970 which will occur to you just from the name. 00:48:24.970 --> 00:48:26.970 But they'd been recommended to me 00:48:26.970 --> 00:48:28.970 by Count Tolstoy. 00:48:28.970 --> 00:48:30.970 And I have to say I have no objection whatsoever 00:48:30.970 --> 00:48:32.970 to employing Jewish lawyers. 00:48:32.970 --> 00:48:34.970 It makes a lot of sense to employ them 00:48:34.970 --> 00:48:37.320 in an action like this. 00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.320 And they had been recommended to me 00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:41.320 by Count Tolstoy. 00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:43.320 Count Tolstoy was the opponent of Lord Aldington. 00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:45.320 He was the opponent of Sir Charles Gray's client 00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:47.320 in the previous action years ago 00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:49.320 over the murder of the Cossacks 00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:51.320 and Yugoslavs. 00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:53.320 And Count Tolstoy was a friend of mine 00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:55.320 who was going to speak last year here. 00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:57.320 Count Tolstoy said, 00:48:57.320 --> 00:48:59.320 I can recommend no better firm than the one 00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:01.360 I am presently employing, Goldsmiths. 00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:03.360 They're fully up to date on defamation law 00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:05.360 of appeal. 00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:07.360 And for one week they acted for me 00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:09.360 very willingly until one of their partners 00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:11.360 objected for religious reasons 00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:13.360 to representing me. 00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:15.360 And of course I made a lot of noise 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:17.610 about that in the press. 00:49:17.610 --> 00:49:19.900 I said such things as 00:49:19.900 --> 00:49:21.900 they wonder where anti-Semitism comes from. 00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:23.900 They act against me in that way 00:49:23.900 --> 00:49:25.900 because they are Jews. 00:49:25.900 --> 00:49:27.900 If I was to act against them in that way 00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:32.110 because they were Jews it would be anti-Semitism. 00:49:32.110 --> 00:49:34.110 I wasn't quite as forceful as that. 00:49:34.110 --> 00:49:36.110 But that of course is the underlying 00:49:36.110 --> 00:49:38.200 reason for disrespecting 00:49:38.200 --> 00:49:40.240 a lawyer 00:49:40.240 --> 00:49:42.240 who refuses to take a case 00:49:42.240 --> 00:49:45.320 for religious reasons. 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:47.320 I've frequently said when people say 00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:49.320 what do you think about the Jewish control 00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:51.320 of the media and the Mafia and Hollywood and so on. 00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:53.320 I say I have no objection to that whatsoever. 00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:55.320 If the Jews make the better films, 00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.320 if Steven Spielberg turns our first class movies, 00:49:57.320 --> 00:49:59.320 I've got no objection. 00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:01.320 I like good movies like anybody else. 00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:03.320 But if they use their position to disadvantage non-Jews 00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:05.320 that's a different matter. 00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:07.320 I was a Jewish law partner 00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:09.320 using his position to disadvantage a non-Jew 00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:11.420 because he was Jewish. 00:50:11.420 --> 00:50:13.420 Never mind. 00:50:13.420 --> 00:50:15.420 We separated on amicable terms 00:50:15.420 --> 00:50:17.420 which wasn't easy for them 00:50:17.420 --> 00:50:19.420 because of course I could have gone to the Court of Appeal 00:50:19.420 --> 00:50:21.420 and said I insist that they remain on the record. 00:50:21.420 --> 00:50:23.420 They come on the record 00:50:23.420 --> 00:50:25.480 and they can't come off the record 00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:27.480 without the consent of the court 00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:29.480 and without my consent. 00:50:29.480 --> 00:50:32.000 But I was magnanimous and generous 00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:34.000 and let them go and I took on a new lawyer 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.000 and he turned out to be the most 00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:38.000 ineffectual and incompetent man 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:40.120 I have ever met. 00:50:40.120 --> 00:50:42.120 He could only type with one finger. 00:50:42.120 --> 00:50:44.120 He knew nothing about emails. 00:50:44.120 --> 00:50:46.120 He couldn't operate a photocopy machine. 00:50:46.120 --> 00:50:48.320 He had never seen a fax machine. 00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:50.320 He did nothing of what should have been done 00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:52.440 in the course of the appeal. 00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:54.440 I know I've come under severe criticism 00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:56.440 for not introducing in the course of the appeal 00:50:56.440 --> 00:50:58.440 the Germar Rudolph Report 00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:01.370 that we commissioned especially 00:51:01.370 --> 00:51:03.370 to defeat the Van Pelt Report 00:51:03.370 --> 00:51:05.370 used in the lower court. 00:51:05.370 --> 00:51:07.370 The Germar Rudolph and his chemical expertise. 00:51:07.370 --> 00:51:09.370 Well there were reasons why I hadn't used him 00:51:09.370 --> 00:51:11.370 but now in the Court of Appeal 00:51:11.370 --> 00:51:13.370 we thought it was important to bring it in 00:51:13.370 --> 00:51:15.370 because suddenly the chemistry of the case 00:51:15.370 --> 00:51:17.370 had become important. 00:51:17.370 --> 00:51:19.440 So I could justifiably bring him in. 00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:21.440 We have difficulties in English law 00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:23.440 in the Court of Appeal in introducing new evidence. 00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:25.440 Any lawyers here will know what those difficulties are 00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:27.440 but in England the problem is 00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:29.440 that in the Court of Appeal 00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:31.440 the new evidence has to satisfy the test 00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:33.600 known as Ladd and Marshall 00:51:33.600 --> 00:51:35.600 which is a precedent which says effectively 00:51:35.600 --> 00:51:37.600 that if you've got bloody good reasons 00:51:37.600 --> 00:51:39.600 for not having introduced that document 00:51:39.600 --> 00:51:41.600 in the lower court 00:51:41.600 --> 00:51:43.600 then we're not going to let you introduce it in the appeal 00:51:43.600 --> 00:51:45.690 which is reasonable because otherwise 00:51:45.690 --> 00:51:47.690 litigation could go on endlessly. 00:51:47.690 --> 00:51:49.690 The Germar Rudolph document 00:51:49.690 --> 00:51:51.690 would have caused us problems there 00:51:51.690 --> 00:51:53.690 because there weren't really good reasons 00:51:53.690 --> 00:51:55.690 why I hadn't called Germar Rudolph in the first hearing. 00:51:55.690 --> 00:51:57.690 I thought I had good reasons 00:51:57.690 --> 00:52:00.010 but probably the Court of Appeal would have disagreed. 00:52:00.010 --> 00:52:02.010 More serious was the fact that 00:52:02.010 --> 00:52:04.040 I wanted to show that their expert witnesses 00:52:04.040 --> 00:52:06.040 were biased. 00:52:06.040 --> 00:52:08.270 To say rotten things about me. 00:52:08.270 --> 00:52:10.270 They were no longer objective and neutral 00:52:10.270 --> 00:52:12.270 as they should be as between the parties. 00:52:12.270 --> 00:52:14.270 Quite clearly English law says that 00:52:14.270 --> 00:52:16.270 expert witnesses have to be neutral 00:52:16.270 --> 00:52:18.270 as between the parties. 00:52:18.270 --> 00:52:20.270 And here we didn't have the Ladd and Marshall problem 00:52:20.270 --> 00:52:22.270 because the evidence we wanted to introduce 00:52:22.270 --> 00:52:24.270 had only arisen since 00:52:24.270 --> 00:52:26.810 the lower court hearing. 00:52:26.810 --> 00:52:28.810 The Ladd and Marshall rule didn't apply. 00:52:28.810 --> 00:52:31.360 Professor Evans, the expert witness 00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:33.360 had made the mistake 00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:35.360 of giving evidence 00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:37.360 in a tribunal hearing 00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:39.360 in New Zealand 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:41.360 against one of our colleagues, 00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:43.360 one of our friends, 00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:45.710 a non-conformist historian 00:52:45.710 --> 00:52:47.710 named Joel Stuart Heywood. 00:52:47.710 --> 00:52:49.710 Joel Stuart Heywood had written incorrect things 00:52:49.710 --> 00:52:51.710 about the Holocaust in a PhD thesis. 00:52:51.710 --> 00:52:53.710 He had written good things about 00:52:53.710 --> 00:52:55.710 the revisionist movement in his PhD thesis. 00:52:55.710 --> 00:52:57.710 And this had come to light after 10 years 00:52:57.710 --> 00:52:59.710 and the traditional enemies had discovered 00:52:59.710 --> 00:53:01.710 that this man, who was by now 00:53:01.710 --> 00:53:03.710 head of the Institute of Strategic Studies 00:53:03.710 --> 00:53:05.710 at the University of Auckland in New Zealand 00:53:05.710 --> 00:53:07.710 had this past. 00:53:07.710 --> 00:53:09.710 That his doctorate should be revoked. 00:53:09.710 --> 00:53:11.710 All the usual things, which to us 00:53:11.710 --> 00:53:13.710 seem unthinkable in this country. 00:53:13.710 --> 00:53:15.710 But in New Zealand, it didn't seem unthinkable. 00:53:15.710 --> 00:53:17.710 And they piled colossal pressure 00:53:17.710 --> 00:53:19.710 on the university to apologise to the Jewish community 00:53:19.710 --> 00:53:21.710 for having given this man a doctorate 00:53:21.710 --> 00:53:23.710 so incautiously, for having appointed him 00:53:23.710 --> 00:53:25.710 head of the Institute of Strategic Studies 00:53:25.710 --> 00:53:27.870 and all the rest. 00:53:27.870 --> 00:53:29.870 And he fought back and he hired lawyers 00:53:29.870 --> 00:53:31.930 to defend himself. 00:53:31.930 --> 00:53:33.930 And the other side sent for Professor Evans 00:53:33.930 --> 00:53:35.930 who had distinguished himself so nobly 00:53:35.930 --> 00:53:37.930 on behalf of Professor Lipstadt 00:53:37.930 --> 00:53:39.930 in action against that Holocaust denier, David Irving. 00:53:39.930 --> 00:53:41.930 She was the dragon slayer 00:53:41.930 --> 00:53:43.930 and he was the sword bearer of the dragon slayer. 00:53:43.930 --> 00:53:45.930 So Professor Evans was called upon 00:53:45.930 --> 00:53:47.930 to write a report on Hayward 00:53:47.930 --> 00:53:49.930 and his writings. 00:53:49.930 --> 00:53:51.930 And this time he came a cropper 00:53:51.930 --> 00:53:53.960 because the experts of the tribunal 00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:55.960 in their findings, they said 00:53:55.960 --> 00:53:57.960 it is quite obvious that Professor Richard Evans 00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:00.030 is not objective. 00:54:00.030 --> 00:54:02.030 He has displayed a degree of polemics 00:54:02.030 --> 00:54:04.030 in his report 00:54:04.030 --> 00:54:06.030 which are so far from neutrality as to be unacceptable. 00:54:06.030 --> 00:54:08.030 He doesn't appreciate 00:54:08.030 --> 00:54:10.030 the need for an expert witness 00:54:10.030 --> 00:54:12.030 to be completely neutral as between the parties 00:54:12.030 --> 00:54:14.030 and to use language entirely devoid 00:54:14.030 --> 00:54:16.120 of polemics. 00:54:16.120 --> 00:54:18.120 All the criticisms that we had made of him 00:54:18.120 --> 00:54:20.120 were suddenly there written by New Zealand judges. 00:54:20.120 --> 00:54:22.160 And the New Zealand legal system 00:54:22.160 --> 00:54:24.160 has very high standing in England 00:54:24.160 --> 00:54:26.160 unlike the Australian legal system 00:54:26.160 --> 00:54:28.160 which is not held in high merit. 00:54:28.160 --> 00:54:30.160 The New Zealand judges are considered to be 00:54:30.160 --> 00:54:32.160 of great worth and weight. 00:54:32.160 --> 00:54:34.160 So that was one document we wanted to introduce. 00:54:34.160 --> 00:54:36.160 We had the actual printed report 00:54:36.160 --> 00:54:38.160 of the New Zealand tribunal 00:54:38.160 --> 00:54:40.160 on the condemnation of Evans and his methods. 00:54:40.160 --> 00:54:42.830 And the other document we wanted to introduce 00:54:42.830 --> 00:54:44.830 of course was the Evans book 00:54:44.830 --> 00:54:46.830 where he says on one page 00:54:46.830 --> 00:54:48.830 there's no doubt we were all of the opinion 00:54:48.830 --> 00:54:50.830 the expert witnesses and the lawyers 00:54:50.830 --> 00:54:52.830 and so on that David Irving defiled 00:54:52.830 --> 00:54:54.890 every room he was in by his very presence. 00:54:54.890 --> 00:54:56.890 This is the man who says on oath 00:54:56.890 --> 00:54:59.120 oh no I have no dislike of you Mr Irving 00:54:59.120 --> 00:55:01.120 I'm completely objective about you Mr Irving 00:55:01.120 --> 00:55:03.120 on oath 00:55:03.120 --> 00:55:05.120 and that is perjury. 00:55:05.120 --> 00:55:07.120 And in England you go to prison for perjury 00:55:07.120 --> 00:55:09.120 as Geoffrey Archer, Lord Archer now knows 00:55:09.120 --> 00:55:11.120 and Aitken now knows 00:55:11.120 --> 00:55:13.120 who was another client of Sir Charles Grey 00:55:13.120 --> 00:55:16.010 he went to prison for perjury. 00:55:16.010 --> 00:55:18.010 So perjury is a serious matter 00:55:18.010 --> 00:55:20.010 and I wanted to have that book put before the Court of Appeal 00:55:20.010 --> 00:55:22.010 as evidence for the fact that these expert witnesses 00:55:22.010 --> 00:55:24.330 were not neutral at all 00:55:24.330 --> 00:55:26.330 and her whole case rested on them. 00:55:26.330 --> 00:55:28.330 And we fell flat on our faces 00:55:28.330 --> 00:55:30.330 because on the second day of the Court of Appeal 00:55:30.330 --> 00:55:32.330 it turned out that Nigel Adams 00:55:32.330 --> 00:55:34.330 this bumbling lawyer that I had hired 00:55:34.330 --> 00:55:37.520 and paid a fortune to already 00:55:37.520 --> 00:55:39.520 had not made the necessary application in time. 00:55:39.520 --> 00:55:41.520 He hadn't applied permission to put in the 00:55:41.520 --> 00:55:43.520 evidence before the Court 00:55:43.520 --> 00:55:45.520 he hadn't applied permission to put in the New Zealand report 00:55:45.520 --> 00:55:47.520 and in the Court of Appeal 00:55:47.520 --> 00:55:49.520 you could detect a silent smirk on their faces 00:55:49.520 --> 00:55:51.900 said we're not going to hear it 00:55:51.900 --> 00:55:53.900 they withdrew 00:55:53.900 --> 00:55:55.900 they debated it for ten minutes 00:55:55.900 --> 00:55:57.900 and they came back 00:55:57.900 --> 00:55:59.900 and you could see that one of them had wanted to 00:55:59.900 --> 00:56:02.190 but the other two judges 00:56:02.190 --> 00:56:04.190 said flatly no 00:56:04.190 --> 00:56:06.190 we're not going to accept this 00:56:06.190 --> 00:56:08.320 and that's the rules of the Court 00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:10.320 and if you haven't played the game by the rules 00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:13.470 then frankly ladies and gentlemen you're out. 00:56:13.470 --> 00:56:15.470 It was quite plain we were going down 00:56:15.470 --> 00:56:17.660 in fact my own barrister said 00:56:17.660 --> 00:56:19.660 he turned round at one point and I said how are we doing 00:56:19.660 --> 00:56:21.880 he said we're going down, we're going down badly 00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:23.880 so by day four it was obvious we had lost 00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:27.000 and this was the 00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:29.100 rub 00:56:29.100 --> 00:56:31.100 it was a loss 00:56:31.100 --> 00:56:33.260 not of an appeal 00:56:33.260 --> 00:56:35.260 but it was a loss of an application for permission 00:56:35.260 --> 00:56:38.440 to appeal 00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:40.440 you may say well what's the difference 00:56:40.440 --> 00:56:42.440 well the difference is that this was a procedural matter 00:56:42.440 --> 00:56:44.440 that we had lost on 00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:46.440 no appeal from a procedural decision 00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:48.440 you can't go to the next higher court 00:56:48.440 --> 00:56:51.020 the House of Lords 00:56:51.020 --> 00:56:53.020 finis, end of case 00:56:53.020 --> 00:56:55.020 this was the reason why they had devolved 00:56:55.020 --> 00:56:57.020 evolved this little bit of legal trickery at the beginning 00:56:57.020 --> 00:56:59.020 of the hearing that they were not going to hear the appeal 00:56:59.020 --> 00:57:01.020 they were only going to hear the application 00:57:01.020 --> 00:57:03.020 for permission to appeal and simultaneously 00:57:03.020 --> 00:57:05.440 wanted all the evidence to be put in 00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:07.440 so that's the end of the Lipstap matter 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.630 we grit our teeth 00:57:09.630 --> 00:57:11.630 we sit down and we wait 00:57:11.630 --> 00:57:14.140 and something rather odd begins 00:57:14.140 --> 00:57:17.900 to happen. The Jewish 00:57:17.900 --> 00:57:19.900 community begin looking around and saying well 00:57:19.900 --> 00:57:21.900 Irving is finished 00:57:21.900 --> 00:57:24.190 hooray 00:57:24.190 --> 00:57:26.190 and the journalists come and interview me and they say 00:57:26.190 --> 00:57:28.190 totally destroyed, wiped out 00:57:28.190 --> 00:57:30.190 financially ruined, isn't that correct 00:57:30.190 --> 00:57:32.760 and my investors 00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:34.760 and people who have backed my publishing project 00:57:34.760 --> 00:57:36.800 begin to get quite nervous 00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:39.340 quite wrongly because all that is 00:57:39.340 --> 00:57:41.340 firewalled away in a different operation 00:57:41.340 --> 00:57:46.060 and I say to the journalists 00:57:46.060 --> 00:57:48.700 think 00:57:48.700 --> 00:57:50.700 who has won 00:57:50.700 --> 00:57:52.700 they say well what are you saying who has won 00:57:52.700 --> 00:57:54.700 the Court of Appeal said you've lost 00:57:54.700 --> 00:57:56.700 and I said I am still writing 00:57:56.700 --> 00:57:58.700 I still have my fountain pen 00:57:58.700 --> 00:58:00.700 I still have the paper 00:58:00.700 --> 00:58:02.700 I still have the publishing imprint 00:58:02.700 --> 00:58:04.700 which I set up myself 10 years ago 00:58:04.700 --> 00:58:06.700 as a lifeboat because I knew this was going to happen 00:58:06.700 --> 00:58:08.800 so I'm still standing 00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:11.760 my opponents in this action 00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:13.760 have lost already 8 million 00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:15.760 dollars which they will not recover 00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:18.520 does that tell you who's won 00:58:18.520 --> 00:58:23.240 and they said 00:58:23.240 --> 00:58:25.240 well let's stand back 00:58:25.240 --> 00:58:28.970 and wait. We have waited now 00:58:28.970 --> 00:58:30.970 for two months 00:58:30.970 --> 00:58:33.450 and it hasn't happened 00:58:33.450 --> 00:58:35.450 there are legal reasons why I apprehend 00:58:35.450 --> 00:58:38.640 that nothing will happen 00:58:38.640 --> 00:58:40.640 so we know what a Pyrrhic victory is 00:58:40.640 --> 00:58:43.470 we know what the battle 00:58:43.470 --> 00:58:46.560 of Thermopylae was 00:58:46.560 --> 00:58:48.560 we can ask ourselves standing back 00:58:48.560 --> 00:58:50.560 and reviewing this 00:58:50.560 --> 00:58:52.560 in the light of history 00:58:52.560 --> 00:58:54.560 who won this battle and who is going to win the next 00:58:54.560 --> 00:58:57.100 because exactly the same procedure will happen 00:58:57.100 --> 00:58:59.100 it seems ugly because 00:58:59.100 --> 00:59:01.100 I have no intention of destroying free speech 00:59:01.100 --> 00:59:03.550 but suddenly 00:59:03.550 --> 00:59:05.550 the press and the media 00:59:05.550 --> 00:59:07.710 have begun to take me seriously 00:59:07.710 --> 00:59:09.710 open season has ended 00:59:09.710 --> 00:59:11.710 their licenses have been withdrawn 00:59:11.710 --> 00:59:13.710 they can no longer pour the slime on me 00:59:13.710 --> 00:59:15.710 that they used to in the old days 00:59:15.710 --> 00:59:18.920 Professor Evans 00:59:18.920 --> 00:59:20.920 his book Lying About Hitler 00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:22.920 is available in Barnes and Noble down the street 00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:25.470 but if you go to England 00:59:25.470 --> 00:59:27.470 there's not a single bookstore shopping that book 00:59:27.470 --> 00:59:29.470 his own publisher William Heinemann Limited 00:59:29.470 --> 00:59:31.470 a Jewish firm, a very respectable Jewish firm 00:59:31.470 --> 00:59:33.470 who published Martin Gilbert's works as well 00:59:33.470 --> 00:59:35.470 told the infuriated 00:59:35.470 --> 00:59:37.470 Professor Richard Evans 00:59:37.470 --> 00:59:39.470 we are not going to publish the book you've submitted 00:59:39.470 --> 00:59:41.600 he said but you said it's a wonderful book 00:59:41.600 --> 00:59:43.600 and they said yes 00:59:43.600 --> 00:59:46.880 but it is also libelous 00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:48.880 which means defamatory about Mr. Irving 00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:51.420 and untrue 00:59:51.420 --> 00:59:53.420 and we are not going to face the kind of 00:59:53.420 --> 00:59:55.580 financial risks 00:59:55.580 --> 00:59:57.580 that Penguin Books Limited faced on behalf of Deborah Lipstadt 00:59:57.580 --> 00:59:59.770 and I'm very sorry 00:59:59.770 --> 01:00:01.770 for Penguin Books because they could have got out of this 01:00:01.770 --> 01:00:03.770 very early on three years ago 01:00:03.770 --> 01:00:05.770 before the action came to the courts 01:00:05.770 --> 01:00:07.770 I said if you pay 500 pounds to a charity 01:00:07.770 --> 01:00:09.770 for the limbless in memory of my oldest daughter 01:00:09.770 --> 01:00:11.770 then I will end the action against you 01:00:11.770 --> 01:00:13.770 and you'll be home and free 01:00:13.770 --> 01:00:15.770 instead of which they went ahead and fought the action 01:00:15.770 --> 01:00:17.770 and ran up a bill for eight million dollars 01:00:17.770 --> 01:00:19.770 and if I was one of their shareholders 01:00:19.770 --> 01:00:21.770 I think I would be pretty mad about that 01:00:21.770 --> 01:00:23.770 but there are 01:00:23.770 --> 01:00:25.770 aspects there which I'm not going to go into here 01:00:25.770 --> 01:00:28.280 as to why they did it 01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:30.280 so I'm still standing and I'm still fighting 01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:32.280 and I'm going to continue to fight 01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:34.280 but to do that I need to maintain the two resources 01:00:34.280 --> 01:00:36.280 the first resource is the internet 01:00:36.280 --> 01:00:38.350 and I ask any of you who have internet 01:00:38.350 --> 01:00:40.350 connections both to connect with me 01:00:40.350 --> 01:00:42.350 and to stand by when the next trial begins 01:00:42.350 --> 01:00:44.350 and also the financial resources 01:00:44.350 --> 01:00:46.350 the ability to carry on the fight 01:00:46.350 --> 01:00:48.830 and it's a winning battle 01:00:48.830 --> 01:00:50.830 because now we have brought the matter 01:00:50.830 --> 01:00:52.830 before the worldwide international reading community 01:00:52.830 --> 01:00:54.830 no longer do they accept 01:00:54.830 --> 01:00:56.830 the legends 01:00:56.830 --> 01:00:58.830 Gitta Cerrani who I'm suing 01:00:58.830 --> 01:01:00.830 I read out from her article in the Times 01:01:00.830 --> 01:01:02.830 which was published three or four days ago 01:01:02.830 --> 01:01:04.830 says quite clearly to the interviewer at the Times 01:01:04.830 --> 01:01:06.830 Auschwitz was not a death camp 01:01:06.830 --> 01:01:08.830 and I wish people would not describe it as such 01:01:08.830 --> 01:01:10.830 she's an expert on Treblinka 01:01:10.830 --> 01:01:13.690 so she knows what she's saying 01:01:13.690 --> 01:01:15.690 and she also goes on to say 01:01:15.690 --> 01:01:17.690 and historians should stop writing rubbish 01:01:17.690 --> 01:01:19.690 or untruths because that only plays into the hands 01:01:19.690 --> 01:01:21.790 of people like David Irving who show them up 01:01:21.790 --> 01:01:23.790 now how about that 01:01:23.790 --> 01:01:25.790 thank you very much