WEBVTT 00:00:16.300 --> 00:00:27.300 Ladies and gentlemen, I'm always worried by capacity audiences, because I never know how the organisers manage to work out exactly what size hall to rent for the evening's entertainment. 00:00:27.300 --> 00:00:34.300 It's happened right the way across Canada. Victoria, Vancouver, Prince George, Kelowna, Regina, Winnipeg, and now here. 00:00:34.300 --> 00:00:44.300 The audience that confronts me, there are very few people standing, there are no empty seats, it's almost like a made-to-measure audience, a wall-to-wall audience. 00:00:44.300 --> 00:00:50.300 I wonder if something's being rigged. It can't always work out like this. 00:00:50.300 --> 00:00:58.300 In Ottawa, however, the experience for me so far has been quite unique. 00:00:58.300 --> 00:01:03.300 I don't understand why in Ottawa I am being given a rough time. 00:01:03.300 --> 00:01:05.300 And it is a rough time, ladies and gentlemen. 00:01:05.300 --> 00:01:11.300 If I was to tell you what we have had to go through, not just in Canada, but here particularly in Ottawa, 00:01:11.300 --> 00:01:13.300 in order to have this... 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:17.400 ...meeting this evening, I'm afraid you wouldn't believe it. 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:25.430 We have had to put up with a concerted effort by various minorities in Ottawa to prevent me from speaking. 00:01:25.430 --> 00:01:31.430 And I think that at the end of the hour's talk, which I'm going to give you now, which will follow with about a quarter of an hour's interval, 00:01:31.430 --> 00:01:39.430 and then we're going to have an open and frank discussion, when you can ask whatever questions you like, using as hostile language as you like. 00:01:39.430 --> 00:01:41.430 Right. OK. 00:01:41.430 --> 00:01:44.430 I hope that at the end of the hour's talk, 00:01:44.430 --> 00:01:49.430 which I give this evening, followed by a quarter of an hour's interval, and then we'll have a very frank discussion afterwards, 00:01:49.430 --> 00:01:54.430 that you will agree that I have not said anything offensive to any minorities, 00:01:54.430 --> 00:01:59.430 that I have tried to be as objective as possible about very emotional subjects, 00:01:59.430 --> 00:02:05.430 and that really people who try to prevent me from speaking probably have something to hide. 00:02:05.430 --> 00:02:07.430 They probably have something to hide. 00:02:07.430 --> 00:02:13.430 And the more violent their opposition, the more impressed one becomes by the notion that they probably have something to hide. 00:02:13.430 --> 00:02:19.660 I mean, in Victoria, for example, when I spoke in Victoria, 00:02:19.660 --> 00:02:26.660 these opponents, they checked out who had placed the advertisement in the Times-Colonist, the local newspaper. 00:02:26.660 --> 00:02:28.660 So they could... 00:02:28.660 --> 00:02:30.660 So they could... 00:02:30.660 --> 00:02:32.660 OK. 00:02:32.660 --> 00:02:37.660 They checked out who had placed the advertisement in the local newspaper, the Times-Colonist. 00:02:37.660 --> 00:02:39.660 The... 00:02:39.660 --> 00:02:43.170 Most of this opposition, of course, comes, for me, 00:02:43.170 --> 00:02:45.170 very regrettably. 00:02:45.170 --> 00:02:52.570 I think we probably have some people at the back who are quite deaf by the sound of it. 00:02:52.570 --> 00:03:01.180 When the tour finally arrived here in Ottawa, 00:03:01.180 --> 00:03:05.180 I found that the maximum pressure had been brought to bear on the Congress Center here, 00:03:05.180 --> 00:03:09.180 including delegations from various local minority groups, 00:03:09.180 --> 00:03:14.180 including six members of Parliament who had personally put pressure on the Congress Center 00:03:14.180 --> 00:03:17.180 to dishonor the contract we had signed, 00:03:17.180 --> 00:03:19.180 and including threats of all court... 00:03:19.180 --> 00:03:21.180 all sorts of violence. 00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:23.180 And I find this totally reprehensible, 00:03:23.180 --> 00:03:26.180 and I would like to express here my personal thanks 00:03:26.180 --> 00:03:28.180 to the Congress Center here in Ottawa 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:30.180 that they allowed the meeting to go ahead 00:03:30.180 --> 00:03:32.180 and made it clear right from the start that, 00:03:32.180 --> 00:03:35.180 unlike a number of other meeting places in Canada, 00:03:35.180 --> 00:03:37.180 they did not intend to be intimidated, 00:03:37.180 --> 00:03:41.180 but they were going to give free speech a run. 00:03:41.180 --> 00:03:44.180 So that is my personal word of thanks to Mr. Gordon Henderson, 00:03:44.180 --> 00:03:46.180 the chairman of the board of the Congress Center here. 00:03:47.180 --> 00:03:57.620 I have, in fact, had to approach the question, 00:03:57.620 --> 00:04:02.620 which has been put up with an increasing campaign against me 00:04:02.620 --> 00:04:03.620 over the last 12 or 18 months. 00:04:03.620 --> 00:04:05.620 In fact, since I last came to Canada, 00:04:05.620 --> 00:04:11.620 when I attempted to speak in Pasa in Bavaria, 00:04:11.620 --> 00:04:14.620 I arrived in the city and was escorted into the hall 00:04:14.620 --> 00:04:16.620 through the howling wall with communists outside, 00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:18.620 the usual protection of the hall, 00:04:18.620 --> 00:04:20.620 the riot police, the water cannon, and so on. 00:04:20.620 --> 00:04:22.620 I was escorted in by a police colonel, 00:04:22.620 --> 00:04:25.620 who then handed me a document from the city council of Pasa, 00:04:25.620 --> 00:04:27.620 instructing me that I was prohibited from speaking. 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:30.620 In Vienna, I cannot set foot. 00:04:30.620 --> 00:04:32.620 In Austria, I can't set foot, 00:04:32.620 --> 00:04:34.620 because there's now an arrest warrant out for me. 00:04:34.620 --> 00:04:38.620 In Munich, I am told as a result of a speech I made on April the 21st 00:04:38.620 --> 00:04:42.620 among roughly the same lines as I shall be talking to you today. 00:04:42.620 --> 00:04:46.690 An arrest warrant is also being taken out against me. 00:04:46.690 --> 00:04:47.690 I can stand up to these things. 00:04:47.690 --> 00:04:51.690 I think it very unlikely that any of these cases would ever come to court 00:04:51.690 --> 00:04:53.690 because if they did, I know how to defend myself. 00:04:53.690 --> 00:04:55.690 Having worked in the archives 00:04:55.690 --> 00:04:57.690 and having been proven, proven in the dice, 00:04:57.690 --> 00:05:03.810 repeatedly right, I have no doubt at all that in the long run I will be vindicated. I can 00:05:03.810 --> 00:05:07.670 give an example of how right I have been and how wrong the German and indeed the world's 00:05:07.670 --> 00:05:13.730 historians have been. On October 3rd last year, I was in Berlin. I had been invited 00:05:13.730 --> 00:05:20.320 to Berlin by the Berlin telephone station, Zentrifreies Berlin, and I asked what the 00:05:20.320 --> 00:05:24.200 invitation was for, and I was told that I was required to attend a roundtable discussion 00:05:24.200 --> 00:05:28.640 program, and the other people present would be five notorious German historians, very 00:05:28.640 --> 00:05:32.540 famous German historians, Eberhard Goethe, Arne Mayer, who was at Princeton University, 00:05:33.100 --> 00:05:38.140 a man called Rotenberger, and so on. And I said to Zentrifreies Berlin, do these other 00:05:38.140 --> 00:05:42.840 historians know that I've been invited because experience tells me they will not agree to 00:05:42.840 --> 00:05:47.480 sit around the same table as me. They will not be willing to debate with me. And the 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:50.860 producer of the program said, Mr. Irving, we're going to tell them, but we're the 00:05:50.860 --> 00:05:54.120 ones who run the program. And I thought, in German, Mauseen. 00:05:54.200 --> 00:05:59.060 And sure enough, a few days later, I was telephoned by Zentrifreies Berlin, very embarrassed, 00:05:59.180 --> 00:06:03.100 very apologetic, Mr. Irving, we're terribly sorry, we're going to have to uninvite you 00:06:03.100 --> 00:06:07.900 because the other historians have refused to sit at the same table as you. But I said, 00:06:07.940 --> 00:06:11.020 well, I'm very sorry, but you invited me to come to Berlin, you told me the flight 00:06:11.020 --> 00:06:15.580 to take by Pan Am, you told me the hotel to stay in, Hotel Kempinski, and I booked my 00:06:15.580 --> 00:06:19.680 flight and I booked my hotel room, so I will be in Berlin that evening, October 3rd last 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:24.190 year. And the producer said, Mr. Irving, I'm afraid you don't understand. You are 00:06:24.190 --> 00:06:30.060 no longer invited to the studio, to the program. And I said, well, don't worry, I will not 00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:36.330 be in the studio. I will be outside the studio with a few of my friends. And with a few of 00:06:36.330 --> 00:06:40.250 my friends, in fact, we numbered 50 or 60, we paraded up and down, most undignified, 00:06:40.370 --> 00:06:44.730 but sometimes you are undignified. Life calls on you to be undignified sometimes. I paraded 00:06:44.730 --> 00:06:49.770 up and down outside the Zentrifreies Berlin studio carrying a placard. On one side of 00:06:49.770 --> 00:06:54.750 the placard, in German, Deutscher Historiker, Lugner und Feitner. Deutscher Historiker, 00:06:54.770 --> 00:07:00.430 Lugner und Feitner. And on the other side, in English, German historians, liars and 00:07:00.430 --> 00:07:04.670 cowards. And ladies and gentlemen, that's what German historians are. They're liars 00:07:04.670 --> 00:07:09.450 and cowards. They have lied about their own history for 45 years, even though by doing 00:07:09.450 --> 00:07:14.010 so they have poured slime on their own country, and in doing so, they poured slime on all 00:07:14.010 --> 00:07:18.890 Europeans indirectly, because they've accepted the incriminations of the German people. And 00:07:18.890 --> 00:07:22.610 they are cowards because they refuse to debate with somebody who has been in the archives 00:07:22.610 --> 00:07:24.750 where they haven't, and knows what the truth is. 00:07:24.770 --> 00:07:28.630 The only reason I mention this story, ladies and gentlemen, in connection with today's 00:07:28.630 --> 00:07:34.370 other topic, is because that morning, October the 3rd, last year, I called a press conference 00:07:34.370 --> 00:07:39.860 in Hotel Kempinski in Berlin. 11 a.m., Hotel Kempinski, David Irving press conference. 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:45.140 And all Berlin newspapers came, and West German newspapers came. And on that morning, October 00:07:45.140 --> 00:07:50.220 the 3rd, I keep on repeating the date, you'll see why. Last year, I said, ladies and gentlemen, 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:54.860 to the newspapers, ladies and gentlemen, you won't believe this, but 12 months from now, 00:07:55.120 --> 00:08:00.810 Germany will be reunited. How about that? 12 months, of course, October the 3rd, this 00:08:00.810 --> 00:08:04.730 year, Germany was reunited. That was the day of reunification, and I had predicted it, 00:08:04.950 --> 00:08:09.890 and I got it right down to the last pound, shillings, and pence. I mean, it was, of course, 00:08:09.930 --> 00:08:15.950 a pure fluke. My 12-month estimate was approximate. This was spoken five weeks before the Berlin 00:08:15.950 --> 00:08:20.770 Wall came down. I was working in the East German Communist archives for new books that 00:08:20.770 --> 00:08:25.230 I'm writing, and just looking around told me that the East German Communist Archives, 00:08:25.250 --> 00:08:32.570 the East German State, was on the phone another 12 months. And not one German newspaper printed 00:08:32.570 --> 00:08:36.800 this. One English newspaper printed it, the Daily Telegraph. And in February, when I was 00:08:36.800 --> 00:08:43.020 in East Germany again, speaking to a big audience of 2,000 people, in fact, in Dresden, I mentioned 00:08:43.020 --> 00:08:48.420 this fact. And the Daily Telegraph repeated my prophecy about October the 3rd, and it 00:08:48.420 --> 00:08:52.680 said, we asked Mr. Irving why he made this prophecy and not one German journalist reported 00:08:52.680 --> 00:09:03.820 it. Answer of Mr. Irving, journalisten, that's the German part of the order, ladies and gentlemen, 00:09:03.820 --> 00:09:04.700 German journalist. 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:09.410 Journalists have all the horizon of a lavatory in it. And this is true, and it's unfortunately 00:09:09.410 --> 00:09:13.950 true of a lot of journalists worldwide. The more they become embedded in what they do, 00:09:14.070 --> 00:09:18.650 the more they begin swimming with the stream of the media, be it television or radio or 00:09:18.650 --> 00:09:24.550 newspaper, the lower their horizon becomes. They sink down lower and lower. They no longer 00:09:24.550 --> 00:09:31.200 after a time dare to poke their head out over them where they can see. Whereas as a historian, 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:37.360 I can be arrogant enough to say that being immersed, being rooted sufficiently fundamentally 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:42.020 far in the past, in the recent past, the last 40 or 50 years of European history, you 00:09:42.020 --> 00:09:46.630 can predict with a rough degree of accuracy what's going to happen. So I was able to predict 00:09:46.630 --> 00:09:51.480 that 12 months from October the 3rd last year, Germany would inevitably be reunited. And 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:55.080 I can predict more and say that I think that five years from now, and this may produce 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:59.220 a few shudders from opponents of mine in audience, five years from now, I think that Germany 00:09:59.220 --> 00:10:03.340 and Austria will have the same currency, the Deutsche Mark, which is the first stage of 00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:08.330 war to a political union. Five years. Ten years from now, Germany will have back to 00:10:08.330 --> 00:10:15.200 the lost eastern territories, the Polish territories now, Silesia, Pomerania, East 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:19.840 Prussia. I think East Prussia itself, Königsberg, will be more difficult. But these are predictions 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:25.360 that you can take on secure economic foundations. It's quite plain to me that Germany is now 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:32.060 economically speaking on the march. Within 20 or 30 years from now, I think Germany will 00:10:32.060 --> 00:10:36.980 have attained in the east, in the Ukraine, and in White Russia, everything that Adolf 00:10:36.980 --> 00:10:38.560 Hitler set out to achieve. 00:10:38.740 --> 00:10:43.820 It's penciled editions in June 1941, Operation Barbarossa. And you can come back in 30 years' 00:10:43.820 --> 00:10:46.640 time, ladies and gentlemen, and meet here in the Congress Center, and you'll all be 00:10:46.640 --> 00:10:52.220 saying, well, David Irwin was right again. I only mention these facts because I think 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:58.640 that by being an independent writer, totally uninfluenced by the media, and totally unintimidatable, 00:10:59.020 --> 00:11:03.100 as you see this evening again, ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank you all, as my 00:11:03.100 --> 00:11:08.680 audience, for having brave intimidation to come here and hear me. It is possible to say 00:11:08.740 --> 00:11:16.640 things with a certain degree of accuracy, and eventually be proved right. Which brings 00:11:16.640 --> 00:11:21.120 me to the second main topic of this evening's conversation, which is the great dark shadow 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:25.640 which overhangs not just Germany and German history, but indirectly the whole of Europe, 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:29.940 the whole of the white people, if you like, in Europe. A crime that we are supposed to 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:34.900 have committed, the Germans, the Europeans, the white people, committing in Europe during 00:11:34.900 --> 00:11:38.300 World War II. Hands over their life, a shadow. 00:11:39.260 --> 00:11:45.650 An accusing theme that wandered at all of us, either directly or indirectly. And because 00:11:45.650 --> 00:11:50.890 the historians, not just the German historians, but historians worldwide, are such liars and 00:11:50.890 --> 00:11:57.410 cowards in this respect, they have not merely dared to investigate it as they should. It's 00:11:57.410 --> 00:12:03.030 the Holocaust. It's Auschwitz. It's Treblinka. It's Majdanek. It's whatever that great tragedy 00:12:03.030 --> 00:12:07.450 was. And let me say right away in front of you, those who call me a Holocaust denier 00:12:07.450 --> 00:12:09.650 are wrong, because there is no doubt about it. There is no doubt about it. There is no 00:12:09.670 --> 00:12:14.280 doubt at all. It has to be said. And I know it's an uncomfortable truth. It's no doubt 00:12:14.280 --> 00:12:27.720 at all that various, now it's a thousand at a time, there's no question at all. They 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:33.220 machine-gunned them into this. They massacred them behind the Eastern Front. There's no 00:12:33.220 --> 00:12:37.260 question at all that this was going on. I have seen evidence which satisfies me in the 00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:42.350 archives, contemporary documents, not only German documents, but British documents. I'm 00:12:42.350 --> 00:12:48.740 not talking about the eyewitnesses. Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable. But the documentation 00:12:48.740 --> 00:12:49.760 in the archives, the evidence in the archives, the evidence in the archives, the evidence 00:12:49.780 --> 00:12:54.700 in the archives has satisfied me that these massacres did take place. And they really 00:12:54.700 --> 00:12:57.800 have to be investigated because we need to know something about the psychology of the 00:12:57.800 --> 00:13:03.700 mass murderer who was able, usually they were SS officers aged 21 or 23 or something like 00:13:03.700 --> 00:13:08.810 that, who gave the orders. Nobody has really investigated how these crimes came about. 00:13:09.370 --> 00:13:13.990 One thing is plain to me as Adolf Hitler's biographer, having spent now 20 years of my 00:13:13.990 --> 00:13:19.990 life, from 1964 onwards, researching the private and official life of Adolf Hitler, 00:13:20.010 --> 00:13:25.090 in the war years, again from the archives, from the records, I won the confidence of 00:13:25.090 --> 00:13:29.090 all Adolf Hitler's private staff, his secretaries, the generals, the field marshals, I got their 00:13:29.090 --> 00:13:33.350 tires, I persuaded them to talk to me, and talk honestly to me, so they admitted that 00:13:33.350 --> 00:13:38.410 Dirk was a slime that happened in World War II. Having written Adolf Hitler's biography, 00:13:38.550 --> 00:13:43.350 it's quite plain to me that he never knew what was going on, whatever it was. Let's 00:13:43.350 --> 00:13:47.400 be as neat as that. I've been around the world with my pocket stuff, with a thousand 00:13:47.400 --> 00:13:50.260 pound notes for the television programs indeed. 00:13:50.420 --> 00:13:55.060 Radio shows and the journalists saying, here's a thousand pounds if you can find anywhere 00:13:55.060 --> 00:14:00.060 a contemporary German document showing that Adolf Hitler even knew about Auschwitz, shall 00:14:00.060 --> 00:14:06.440 we say. And they can't even do that. So I originally said, back in 1977, when I published 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:11.220 my book Hitler's War, the flagship of my writing career, that Hitler didn't know 00:14:11.220 --> 00:14:16.370 what was going on, whatever it was that was going on. But three or four years, another 00:14:16.370 --> 00:14:21.400 step further forward, down the path, intellectual ruin, you might almost say, because it has 00:14:21.400 --> 00:14:22.840 brought me under more and more pressure. 00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:28.350 More fire, more gunfire than any other topics that I have ventilated in my books. Three 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:32.010 or four years ago, I said, I am now satisfied. The reason Hitler didn't know what was going 00:14:32.010 --> 00:14:37.090 on was that it wasn't going on, whatever it was. And you see, I'm being deliberately 00:14:37.090 --> 00:14:40.990 vague. We'll be a bit more specific about how we define the word Holocaust in a minute. 00:14:41.290 --> 00:14:46.870 This word Holocaust only really emerged in 1970. Before that, the other battleship cruising 00:14:46.870 --> 00:14:51.290 around the horizon of history was the battleship Auschwitz. The battleship Auschwitz, which 00:14:51.290 --> 00:14:52.870 was good enough for everybody because we had it. 00:14:52.890 --> 00:14:58.490 We had photographs. We had hundreds of eyewitnesses. We had the Auschwitz trial. We had innumerable 00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:03.830 war crimes trials where Auschwitz had figured as the capital ship of the enemy propaganda 00:15:03.830 --> 00:15:09.690 campaign against the Germans or the Europeans or whatever. It was a capital ship being used 00:15:09.690 --> 00:15:14.830 in a propaganda campaign. And if you want to ask me what my task now is as a historian 00:15:14.830 --> 00:15:19.550 for the last three or four years, it's to paraphrase Winston Churchill's famous command 00:15:19.550 --> 00:15:22.390 in 1941, seek the Auschwitz. 00:15:22.890 --> 00:15:28.000 But I don't have to seek the Auschwitz, ladies and gentlemen. The Auschwitz is slowly sinking 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:33.610 of its own accord. You understand what I mean by that sentence later on when we come to 00:15:33.610 --> 00:15:38.290 analyze what we understand under the concept Auschwitz and why it is sinking of its own 00:15:38.290 --> 00:15:43.110 accord. If I can just say straight away, there used to be a monument in Auschwitz to four 00:15:43.110 --> 00:15:48.510 million who had been murdered in gas chambers in Auschwitz. The monument was in Auschwitz 00:15:48.510 --> 00:15:53.110 concentration camp. In every language of the convicts who had been taken to Auschwitz, 00:15:53.210 --> 00:16:01.160 and used as slave labor, and done away with. Four million. The Polish director of the Auschwitz 00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:07.340 Museum and Archives, a brave man called Franticek Pieper, has ordered that monument to be dismantled 00:16:07.340 --> 00:16:14.400 and thrown away because it is not true. It was a concrete piece of memorial to a lie. 00:16:14.400 --> 00:16:18.720 It hasn't been replaced by any memorial yet because the historians are still arguing about 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:23.720 what the figure should be. Franticek Pieper says, and I state that quite openly, he thinks 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:27.720 the figure should be one million people killed in Auschwitz. I don't think he's right, and 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.720 I'll explain that in a minute. The German historians, brave as they are, when questioned 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:36.720 by the press agencies about this, said, oh yes, we always assumed it was one million. 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:41.910 Wir sind immer davon ausgegangen, dass es sich um eine Million handelt. We always assumed 00:16:41.910 --> 00:16:46.980 that it was one million. Thus the brave voice of the German historians. Historians, ladies 00:16:46.980 --> 00:16:51.980 and gentlemen, don't have to assume something. Their job is to find out what happened and 00:16:51.980 --> 00:16:53.980 why. Not to assume something. 00:16:53.980 --> 00:16:57.980 But your brave German historians assumed it was one million, having previously assumed 00:16:57.980 --> 00:17:03.040 it was four million, and before that assumed it was six million. They are fooling around 00:17:03.040 --> 00:17:08.040 with figures in an almost criminal way. I'll give you another example. How many people 00:17:08.040 --> 00:17:13.040 died in the Soviet Union in World War II? What is the current figure? Well, I can hear 00:17:13.040 --> 00:17:17.040 voices saying 20 million. Twenty-two million? Any advance on twenty-two million? Well, the 00:17:17.040 --> 00:17:22.040 most recent figure was by the president of West Germany, von Weizsäcker, who said 27 00:17:22.040 --> 00:17:29.230 million Soviet citizens, soldiers, and others died in World War II. Thus is the size of 00:17:29.230 --> 00:17:33.230 the German crime against the Soviet Union. Twenty-seven million. And yet, if you look 00:17:33.230 --> 00:17:37.230 in the archives, ladies and gentlemen, and if there's an interest of Germans among you, 00:17:37.230 --> 00:17:44.260 you'll find the record of the secret meeting at Potsdam, July 1945, between Joseph Stalin 00:17:44.260 --> 00:17:50.300 and President Roosevelt and Mr. Churchill. Not just Roosevelt, Truman and Mr. Churchill. 00:17:50.300 --> 00:17:55.300 Stalin and Churchill had a private meeting on July the 19th, 1945, that was recorded 00:17:55.300 --> 00:18:01.360 by Churchill's interpreter, Major Burse. And here Stalin said to Mr. Churchill, you do 00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:07.360 realize that we in the Soviet Union have had to suffer nearly five million casualties in 00:18:07.360 --> 00:18:14.550 dead and missing during this war. This is Joseph Stalin, the third Soviet dictator, speaking 00:18:14.550 --> 00:18:20.580 two months after the war is over. We have suffered nearly five million dead and missing 00:18:20.580 --> 00:18:25.580 in this war. And two days later, in the plenary session of the big three meeting at Potsdam, 00:18:25.580 --> 00:18:30.650 Stalin repeated that figure, nearly five million dead and missing in this war. So that's the 00:18:30.650 --> 00:18:35.650 true statistic, five million. And yet, since then, you've heard the figure inflated from 00:18:35.650 --> 00:18:40.650 seven million, 17 million, 22 million, which had quite a long run, and now it's gone up 00:18:40.650 --> 00:18:45.900 suddenly to 27 million. You can't do this with history, ladies and gentlemen, particularly 00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:50.060 not when the statistics and the facts are available. And you can't do it without Schwarzschild. 00:18:50.060 --> 00:18:51.740 It worked so well. 00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:55.990 What's going on is the figures and the facts on Auschwitz were not available. And since 00:18:55.990 --> 00:19:03.870 I have been here last time, in March last year, bodies of evidence have become available, 00:19:03.870 --> 00:19:09.060 and I'm going to go into them in some detail later on. The first body of evidence is evidence 00:19:09.060 --> 00:19:14.100 that has become available from the Soviet archives, thanks to Glasnost, thanks to President 00:19:14.100 --> 00:19:20.510 Gorbachev. We no longer have to wonder how many people died in Auschwitz from all causes. 00:19:20.510 --> 00:19:24.510 And the second body of evidence is even more remarkable, really. It's from the archives 00:19:24.510 --> 00:19:30.510 of the British Secret Service. It's from the archives of the British code-breaking agency. 00:19:30.510 --> 00:19:35.930 We find out that all along, for two years in the middle of the apparent period of massacre, 00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:42.990 1942 and 1943, we British were reading the secret codes of the commandant of Auschwitz 00:19:42.990 --> 00:19:49.270 and reading his daily messages. So we no longer have to wonder what happened. And if you're 00:19:49.270 --> 00:19:53.270 wondering now, ladies and gentlemen, why you had to run the gauntlet to come and hear me, 00:19:53.270 --> 00:19:55.270 and why, right across Canada, certain organisers of the British secret service have come to 00:19:55.270 --> 00:20:01.270 you, certain organisations have conducted a concerted campaign to stop me speaking. 00:20:01.270 --> 00:20:06.270 It's because they realise that these are the last days of the legend. The battleship 00:20:06.270 --> 00:20:11.270 is beginning to sink, the battleship Auschwitz. And these are the two most potent weapons 00:20:11.270 --> 00:20:15.270 against it, the Soviet archives and the archives of the British secret service. Because, of 00:20:15.270 --> 00:20:22.270 course, until now, they've always been able to offer the cosy and comfortable suggestion 00:20:22.270 --> 00:20:24.270 that probably the Nazis destroyed all the elements. 00:20:25.270 --> 00:20:31.520 That's why we don't find any evidence about the gas chambers. Ladies and gentlemen, I have 00:20:31.520 --> 00:20:35.520 worked in the archives now for about 30 years. Not only the German archives in Germany, but 00:20:35.520 --> 00:20:40.520 the captured German archives in Washington, the archives here down in Wellington Street, 00:20:40.520 --> 00:20:44.810 archives in Australia, all around the world where there's any kind of material, not only 00:20:44.810 --> 00:20:49.810 the German archives, but the interrogations and so on. And for 30 years, I have had my 00:20:49.810 --> 00:20:53.810 eyes open. I'm not a temperate idiot when it comes to reading German records, and I 00:20:53.810 --> 00:20:55.810 know how to interpret them, and I know what to look for. I know what to look for, and 00:20:55.810 --> 00:20:59.810 I know what to look for on a document so you can tell that something is missing from 00:20:59.810 --> 00:21:04.810 a document that should be there, which is a kind of additional, further stage of expertise. 00:21:04.810 --> 00:21:11.000 Nobody can tell me that it is possible to destroy the records from operation, even if 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:17.000 the Nazis had been omnipotent and omniscient and all-powerful, just like Hollywood tells 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:23.000 us. Even if Adolf Hitler, in his dying gasp in the last three or four days of April 1940, 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.000 had been able to order his staff to go out there into the ruins and destroy the records, 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:34.380 every shred of evidence of what they were up to, you would still find something. The 00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:39.380 German archives weighed tens of thousands of tons. There's so much paper that even now, 00:21:39.380 --> 00:21:43.510 45 years later, they still haven't finished sifting. And even Hitler had said, go out 00:21:43.510 --> 00:21:47.510 there and destroy not only the top copy of my order, but the carbon copy and the eighth 00:21:47.510 --> 00:21:51.510 carbon copy, oh, and the teleprinter strips, of course, at this end that sent it out to 00:21:51.510 --> 00:21:54.510 the other end, and the teleprinter strips at the other end, and the carbon copies at 00:21:54.510 --> 00:21:58.510 the other end, and the private dowry of the corporal who sat at the teleprinter and got 00:21:58.510 --> 00:22:02.510 a terrible shock when he saw the orders coming through, all the reports away the doors, and 00:22:02.510 --> 00:22:07.800 the man who writes a letter home to his mother saying that he knows about these terrible 00:22:07.800 --> 00:22:12.800 things that are going on. You cannot destroy all the contemporary written evidence, and 00:22:12.800 --> 00:22:17.800 all Hitler's other primes, and I emphasize that word, are contained in the German archives. 00:22:17.800 --> 00:22:21.800 The evidence of Hitler's order to kill the commissars, the evidence of Hitler's order 00:22:21.800 --> 00:22:24.800 to lynch Allied airmen in 1944, the evidence of Hitler's order to kill the German army 00:22:24.800 --> 00:22:28.800 and kill British and Canadian commanders in October 1942, the evidence of Hitler's 00:22:28.800 --> 00:22:32.800 order to wipe out the male population of Leningrad and Stalingrad, if he'd ever succeed 00:22:32.800 --> 00:22:36.990 in getting those cities in his hands, that's there in the archives. So why is there not 00:22:36.990 --> 00:22:43.340 a trace of evidence of any order to kill six million Jews? Logically, there should be, 00:22:43.340 --> 00:22:47.340 because it's the biggest crime of them all. This is the record breaker, and yet there's 00:22:47.340 --> 00:22:52.340 nothing in the archives. And even if it was physically possible to destroy all the evidence 00:22:52.340 --> 00:22:55.340 of the German archives, it's still, Hitler's still going to destroy all the evidence of 00:22:55.340 --> 00:23:00.340 the British archives. Because this, of course, is what has recently become known over the 00:23:00.340 --> 00:23:08.820 last fifteen or twenty years, that we British, during World War II, were decoding the most 00:23:08.820 --> 00:23:13.820 important German signals. The Germans were encoding their most important military and 00:23:13.820 --> 00:23:18.820 diplomatic signals, telegrams, sentai radio, they were encoding them on a machine called 00:23:18.820 --> 00:23:23.820 the Enigma machine. They believed that it would take tens of thousands of years of calculations 00:23:23.820 --> 00:23:24.820 and computations to break the code. 00:23:24.820 --> 00:23:29.820 And even one day, they didn't realize that we British were going to develop a computer 00:23:29.820 --> 00:23:34.820 that could do that. Because computers at that time, in 1939, 1940, didn't exist. And we 00:23:34.820 --> 00:23:38.820 developed a very ancient and primitive computer with rooms full of thermionic valves that 00:23:38.820 --> 00:23:45.820 needed huge air conditioning plants to cool them down. And by 1939, we were making the 00:23:45.820 --> 00:23:52.240 first inroads into the German machine codes, the Enigma code. And by 1940, May 1940, we 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:53.240 were reading the German Air Force operations. 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:57.430 The German Air Force operational signals, which meant that when the Luftwaffe, when 00:23:57.430 --> 00:24:01.560 Hermann Göring, a gentleman whose biography I've written at the back, when the Luftwaffe 00:24:01.560 --> 00:24:06.560 was sending a signal to a squadron to bomb London, or Coventry, or Howe, or Bristol, 00:24:06.560 --> 00:24:10.560 or Liverpool, Winston Churchill knew within ten or fifteen minutes, because we had decoded 00:24:10.560 --> 00:24:14.560 the signal often before the Luftwaffe squadron, the German Air Force squadron, had decoded 00:24:14.560 --> 00:24:21.620 it. So when Hermann Göring sent to Kampfgruppe 100 the orders to go and bomb London, Winston 00:24:21.620 --> 00:24:22.620 Churchill knew about it. 00:24:23.620 --> 00:24:28.620 In eighty or ninety percent of the times, we knew in advance what the target of a Luftwaffe 00:24:28.620 --> 00:24:31.620 air raid was. So when London was going to be bombed, of course, Winston Churchill hurried 00:24:31.620 --> 00:24:36.620 out of the back garden gate at 110 Downing Street, got into his Daimler motor car, and 00:24:36.620 --> 00:24:43.620 said, driver, take me out to Oxford as rapidly as you can. Oxford being about 70 or 80 miles 00:24:43.620 --> 00:24:47.620 away from where the bombers were likely to fall. And Winston Churchill would come back 00:24:47.620 --> 00:24:51.620 the next day, and he would put on his Air Commodore uniform for some reason, and he 00:24:51.620 --> 00:24:52.620 would tour the blitzed east end of London. 00:24:52.620 --> 00:24:57.620 Which was still in flames and smoke. And he would speak to the cocknets, and they would 00:24:57.620 --> 00:25:02.780 commiserate with him, and they would say, good ol' Winnie, sock it back to him. And 00:25:02.780 --> 00:25:07.680 I hear the voice of racism already at the back of the audience. Ladies and gentlemen, 00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:11.680 since the word racism has been uttered, I just thought I'd mention that coming to Canada, 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:16.710 I don't think I've seen the word racism or racist spattered across so many newspapers 00:25:16.710 --> 00:25:20.710 that I have here in Canada. It appears to be an obsession at present with more newspapers 00:25:20.710 --> 00:25:21.710 and more journalists. 00:25:21.710 --> 00:25:22.710 And I don't know what it is. 00:25:22.710 --> 00:25:26.710 And I don't know what it is, but I suspect it's the multiculturalism that has been introduced 00:25:26.710 --> 00:25:27.710 into your country. 00:25:39.020 --> 00:25:42.020 Winston Churchill knew that London was about to be bombed, and so he took to his heels 00:25:42.020 --> 00:25:46.020 and he came back the next day, and nobody was any the wiser. I just mentioned this. 00:25:46.020 --> 00:25:52.780 The following year, 1941, we began breaking the secret codes of the SS. They too were 00:25:52.780 --> 00:25:57.780 using machine cipher. And by the end of 1941, we had cracked the code of the Ziegheitspolizei 00:25:57.780 --> 00:26:02.780 and the Altmannspolizei, which is the security police and the regular police force. So we 00:26:02.780 --> 00:26:08.780 were able to read the secret messages being sent back to Berlin by the SS police regiments, 00:26:08.780 --> 00:26:15.780 which were carrying out their murderous tasks for the task forces, in fact, behind the German 00:26:15.780 --> 00:26:17.780 armies advancing across Russia. 00:26:17.780 --> 00:26:22.820 So on the 13th of September 1941, when Kurt Nellum, the head of the Altmannspolizei, sends 00:26:22.820 --> 00:26:27.820 a message to the commanders of the task forces saying, please, when you report back to Berlin, 00:26:27.820 --> 00:26:31.820 give you the details of the executions you've been carrying out. Don't give any precise 00:26:31.820 --> 00:26:35.820 statistics, because we always have to assume that it's not impossible that the enemy is 00:26:35.820 --> 00:26:40.820 able to read these messages. He was a wise man, darüber, and he was right, because we 00:26:40.820 --> 00:26:45.820 were reading the messages, and the task force commanders continued to radio back to Berlin, 00:26:45.820 --> 00:26:49.820 and there you've got the reports of what I said earlier, that not just hundreds, but 00:26:49.820 --> 00:26:55.820 sometimes thousands of partisans and communists and Jews were being liquidated, machine-gunned, 00:26:55.820 --> 00:27:00.820 behind the advancing armies as part of an anti-partisan campaign, which was very convenient 00:27:00.820 --> 00:27:08.260 cover for what they were carrying out. So that definitely happened. But in 1942, the 00:27:08.260 --> 00:27:14.260 British codebreakers cracked the secret code used by seven concentration camp commandants, 00:27:14.260 --> 00:27:18.260 and that is something, ladies and gentlemen, you've not read in any Canadian newspaper 00:27:18.260 --> 00:27:24.260 or in any university textbook, because it has to be explained. In 1942, we began reading 00:27:24.260 --> 00:27:29.260 the secret messages sent back to Berlin on a daily basis by the commandant of Buchenwald 00:27:29.260 --> 00:27:30.260 concentration camp. 00:27:31.260 --> 00:27:38.300 Dachau, Mauthausen, Auschwitz, and three or four other camps. So we knew what Rudolf 00:27:38.300 --> 00:27:43.300 Hearst, the commandant of Auschwitz, who was later hanged by the Poles, what he was reporting 00:27:43.300 --> 00:27:48.300 back to Berlin, day by day by day. And these messages were being analyzed by the British 00:27:48.300 --> 00:27:52.420 Secret Service. Before I tell you what was in them, let me just say that we know this 00:27:52.420 --> 00:27:57.420 because of a brave British historian called Professor F. H. Hinsley, the official historian 00:27:57.420 --> 00:28:01.420 in Britain. What I'm about to tell you comes from the official British history of the British 00:28:01.420 --> 00:28:10.620 Secret Service, Appendix 2, Volume 2, page 669, I think. So it's not just from some gossip 00:28:10.620 --> 00:28:15.620 columnist or journalist. This is the real McCoy, somebody who had access to the secret 00:28:15.620 --> 00:28:19.620 archives of the British Secret Service where these messages from Auschwitz are still contained 00:28:19.620 --> 00:28:26.060 and filed. What did the daily reports from Auschwitz commandant Hearst reveal? Well, 00:28:26.060 --> 00:28:31.290 the first thing they revealed is a series of figures. Figure A was the number of prisoners 00:28:31.290 --> 00:28:37.290 who had arrived the previous day. Prisoners, slave laborers. Auschwitz was a brutal slave 00:28:37.290 --> 00:28:41.610 labor camp, there's no question. It was one of the most brutal slave labor camps that 00:28:41.610 --> 00:28:45.640 the Nazis had. Figure A was the number of prisoners who had arrived during the previous 00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:49.640 24 hours. Figure B was the number of prisoners who had left the camp during the previous 00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:56.640 24 hours. Figure 3 was the number of prisoners on hand in Auschwitz at the end of the day. 00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.770 And it was a big camp. I mean, in this brochure of mine, I've got a photograph of Auschwitz. 00:29:01.770 --> 00:29:04.830 Take it from there. We now have much better photographs. I have photographs that are 00:29:04.830 --> 00:29:08.830 as big as this of Auschwitz, where you can see the people walking around on the ground 00:29:08.830 --> 00:29:13.830 below. Here's Auschwitz, here's a corner, a tiny corner you can see with hundreds and 00:29:13.830 --> 00:29:17.830 hundreds of barrack-like buildings, 200 of them in all. They're a camp called Auschwitz 00:29:17.830 --> 00:29:23.860 II. Each barrack building housed about 200 prisoners. So you're looking at something 00:29:23.860 --> 00:29:29.410 like 40 or 50,000 prisoners in that camp at any one time. Those are the three categories. 00:29:29.410 --> 00:29:32.410 Prisoners who arrived, prisoners who had left, number of prisoners who had left, number of 00:29:32.410 --> 00:29:36.410 prisoners who were on hand. And there was a fourth category, which in German was rendered 00:29:36.410 --> 00:29:42.410 by the words, . And in English, I would be strongly tempted to render by the phrase, 00:29:42.410 --> 00:29:49.410 . Like that book written by my Canadian friend, the liberal novelist and historian 00:29:49.410 --> 00:29:55.410 Jim Black, . It was, as the British service rightly deduced, the daily figure 00:29:55.410 --> 00:30:00.630 of mortalities. The number of people who had died, the number of slave laborers who had 00:30:00.630 --> 00:30:01.630 died in Auschwitz during the previous 24 hours. The number of prisoners who had left, the 00:30:01.630 --> 00:30:08.950 previous 24 hours. And the British secret service analyzed the figures further and, 00:30:08.950 --> 00:30:14.950 says Professor Hensley, concluded that by far the greatest part of these fatalities 00:30:14.950 --> 00:30:22.070 were due to disease. Sensation. Or is it a sensation? It's not really today, because 00:30:22.070 --> 00:30:27.070 last year Arno Meyer, the Princeton University historian who himself was a Jew, he wrote a 00:30:27.070 --> 00:30:31.070 book called Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? And he already anticipated that. He said that 00:30:31.070 --> 00:30:36.070 in his view, more than half the prisoners in Auschwitz died of natural causes, whatever 00:30:36.070 --> 00:30:40.070 you can call natural causes and disease. They, in wartime, they died of disease, they died 00:30:40.070 --> 00:30:45.070 of starvation, they may have even been worked to death, but they weren't executed or gasped 00:30:45.070 --> 00:30:56.030 or shot, according to Arno Meyer. The British decoders said nearly all of them died. The 00:30:56.030 --> 00:31:03.220 residue, the balance, were executed. And the Hearst daily report specifies how they were 00:31:03.220 --> 00:31:05.220 executed. They were executed by hanging. They were executed by hanging. They were executed 00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:13.020 by hanging and by shooting. I quote Professor Hensley again, page 669. There is no references 00:31:13.020 --> 00:31:19.020 in the Auschwitz, there is no reference in the Auschwitz daily telegrams to any gassings. 00:31:19.020 --> 00:31:24.050 Now you would imagine that this sensational discovery by the British official historian 00:31:24.050 --> 00:31:28.050 should really have made, well not front page headlines, but it should have been taken notice 00:31:28.050 --> 00:31:33.050 of by journalists, reporters, and historians around the world. Nobody else has drawn attention 00:31:33.050 --> 00:31:36.050 to it. And even Hensley has only tucked it away and indexed it back. 00:31:37.050 --> 00:31:44.340 But what a sensation it is. No gassings at Auschwitz were reported, even by the commandant 00:31:44.340 --> 00:31:50.340 himself reporting back to Berlin. And yet the legend has it that this was the main job 00:31:50.340 --> 00:31:55.340 in Auschwitz, that it was a death camp, a factory of death, where millions of people 00:31:55.340 --> 00:32:00.340 arrived on the trains in open cattle trucks, were unloaded, stripped of their clothing, 00:32:00.340 --> 00:32:06.070 and then channelled through to the gas chambers and then into the crematoria. What do the Russian 00:32:06.070 --> 00:32:07.070 documents tell us? 00:32:08.070 --> 00:32:13.580 Bearing these English documents in mind. Well, as part of President Gorbachev's 00:32:13.580 --> 00:32:20.680 glasnost, on September the 21st last year, the news agency TASS in Moscow released the 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:26.680 rather startling fact that they had discovered in an archive, an unnamed archive in Moscow, 00:32:26.680 --> 00:32:31.680 as suspected as the archives of the KGB, they had discovered the missing death books of 00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:37.680 Auschwitz, and they had discovered the missing card index of Auschwitz, listing all the prisoners. 00:32:39.380 --> 00:32:44.640 This fact sent a shudder down many a spine around the world, because there is many a 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:49.640 person who has been drawing benefits as an Auschwitz survivor, who is not pleased to 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:55.640 know that there is a complete card index of all the prisoners in Auschwitz. Eli Wiesel, 00:32:55.640 --> 00:33:02.640 for example, the Nobel Prize winner for literacy, Eli Wiesel has stopped claiming that he is 00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:07.640 an Auschwitz survivor. He is now a survivor of Dachau, I think, or is this another one? 00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:14.340 . 00:33:15.340 --> 00:33:20.340 The other discovery of the card indexes from the Moscow archives is the release of the 00:33:20.340 --> 00:33:25.340 death books of Auschwitz. We know about the existence of death books in concentration camps 00:33:25.340 --> 00:33:29.340 because in the very first Nuremberg trial, the death books of Mauthausen concentration 00:33:29.340 --> 00:33:33.340 camp were introduced as evidence, and they weren't all that spectacular, they were just 00:33:33.340 --> 00:33:38.530 meticulous listings of the prisoners who had died. And so it is in the case of Auschwitz. 00:33:38.530 --> 00:33:44.530 Let me tell you what they are. They are 46 volumes, very large volumes, kept like registers, 00:33:44.530 --> 00:33:49.530 listing the names, all the names of the prisoners who had died on any particular day, 00:33:49.530 --> 00:33:56.820 listing the time of death, the cause of death, where they had died, the nationality. These 00:33:56.820 --> 00:34:00.820 46 death books are in the Moscow archives, if they haven't already been returned to 00:34:00.820 --> 00:34:05.980 Adolfsen in Germany now, I think they probably have. Significant for us is the fact that 00:34:05.980 --> 00:34:11.980 for the year 1942 they are complete, for the year 1943 they are almost complete, for the 00:34:11.980 --> 00:34:12.980 year 1944 they are only partially complete. 00:34:12.980 --> 00:34:13.980 . 00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:23.970 They list, ladies and gentlemen, a total of 76,000 names, 76,000 people whose deaths 00:34:23.970 --> 00:34:30.190 are registered in the Auschwitz death books, from all causes. So that gives us something 00:34:30.190 --> 00:34:36.290 like a bottom line figure for the deaths in Auschwitz concentration camp, very much less 00:34:36.290 --> 00:34:41.290 than 4 million, much less even still than 1 million. What can we say even about the 00:34:41.290 --> 00:34:43.290 76,000? Well, it's probably not complete. 00:34:43.290 --> 00:34:51.320 If we were to take into account the missing volumes of 1943 and 1944, then perhaps it 00:34:51.320 --> 00:35:01.340 might come up as high as 100,000 fatalities in Auschwitz. Well, that is a crime. These 00:35:01.340 --> 00:35:06.470 are innocent people. These are innocent people who had no business to be in Auschwitz. This 00:35:06.470 --> 00:35:11.470 was a war, but they were kidnapped as slave laborers, they were innocent men, women and 00:35:11.470 --> 00:35:12.470 children who had no business to be there. 00:35:12.470 --> 00:35:13.470 . 00:35:13.470 --> 00:35:17.470 And if I am asked, as an Englishman, what I consider to be the major crime of World 00:35:17.470 --> 00:35:24.700 War II or any war, it's not genocide, which I think is an artificial notion of a crime, 00:35:24.700 --> 00:35:30.700 it's innocenticide. The killing of innocent people is the crime in any war, ladies and 00:35:30.700 --> 00:35:36.080 gentlemen. Because to say that genocide is the crime rather implies that it makes it 00:35:36.080 --> 00:35:40.080 a crime to kill somebody because of his race. And that's not what the crime is. The crime 00:35:40.080 --> 00:35:42.080 is killing somebody who is innocent of any crime. It's the crime of killing somebody 00:35:42.080 --> 00:35:43.080 who is innocent of any crime. 00:35:43.080 --> 00:35:48.080 It's the crime of killing somebody who shouldn't be killed for any reason whatsoever. Innocent 00:35:48.080 --> 00:35:54.080 by any categorization or any qualification at all. And that's what these 100,000 people 00:35:54.080 --> 00:36:03.080 in Auschwitz, 1942, 1943 and 1944 were. They were innocent and yet they died under extreme 00:36:03.080 --> 00:36:09.370 circumstances. But how many of them were killed? If we take Arne Meier's words, more than half 00:36:09.370 --> 00:36:11.370 died of natural causes, then they're probably right to say that they died of natural causes. 00:36:11.370 --> 00:36:16.370 Then they're probably right to say that, say, 50,000 people were killed and the rest 00:36:16.370 --> 00:36:21.400 died of natural causes in Auschwitz. If we go by the British decrypts, the intercepted 00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:25.400 and decoded British messages of the commandant of Auschwitz, then, of course, it's going 00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:31.400 to be a vanishingly small number, proportion of that 100,000 who were executed or killed. 00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:39.530 The rest, I quote British documents, the rest died of disease, primarily of typhus, because 00:36:39.530 --> 00:36:41.010 Auschwitz, Central Europe, and the rest died of disease. 00:36:41.010 --> 00:36:46.010 The rest died of typhus, and Central Europe was at the heart of an appalling plague of 00:36:46.010 --> 00:36:51.010 typhus that swept Europe, that ravaged it like the Black Plague that went through the 00:36:51.010 --> 00:36:57.390 whole of Europe in the 17th century. For two or three years, the whole of Central Europe 00:36:57.390 --> 00:37:01.390 was in the grip of this typhus plague that was being transmitted by rats and by life, 00:37:01.390 --> 00:37:08.550 by lice. The only way it could be combated was by disinfestation using the most draconic 00:37:08.550 --> 00:37:11.680 methods. And the Germans went about it with all their might. And the Germans went about 00:37:11.680 --> 00:37:16.000 it with all their grisly efficiency. The prisoners who arrived had their clothing taken 00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:22.000 off them. The clothing was put in a gas chamber in Auschwitz and subjected to cyanide impregnation 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:26.000 to kill the lice. A little gas chamber that you can still see there, ladies and gentlemen, 00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:31.000 if you go to Auschwitz today. It looks like a gas chamber. It's got gas-tight doors. 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:36.000 It's got an armor-plated peephole. Too small for people. But it's got the railings that 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:41.000 go in, and it's got the steel kind of jig outside on which the clothing was loaded to 00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:45.000 be carried into the gas chamber to be disinfested with the cyanide gas because the clothing 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:51.000 was going to be recycled. The prisoners came into the bathhouse on the dirty side. They 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:54.000 went into the bathhouse and were showered and came out on the clean side where they 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:59.000 were given their striped convict garb. Their hair was cut off because of the lice in the 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:07.020 hair. Things begin to fit now, don't they? Anne Frank died of the typhus plague. She'd 00:38:07.020 --> 00:38:12.020 been in Auschwitz with her father and her sister. She was evacuated from Auschwitz. She 00:38:12.020 --> 00:38:22.160 went into the camps where they went, the Bergen-Belsen and Buchenwald after the war, 00:38:22.160 --> 00:38:26.260 including a couple of coatbreakers from the British Coatbreaking Institute who went there 00:38:26.260 --> 00:38:31.260 as interpreters. They, too, died of typhus. We have to know this. You can see this gas 00:38:31.260 --> 00:38:36.260 chamber that I just mentioned for disinfesting the clothing, a fumigation chamber in Auschwitz, 00:38:36.260 --> 00:38:40.580 if you go there. It's not shown to the tourists. The reason for that becomes quite evident 00:38:40.580 --> 00:38:44.580 when you see the gas chamber that they do show to the tourists because then you will 00:38:44.580 --> 00:38:48.580 be entitled to ask, why does this gas chamber for the clothing have all these safety precautions 00:38:48.580 --> 00:38:53.580 and the gas-tied doors and the ventilation, whereas the one where apparently millions 00:38:53.580 --> 00:38:59.580 of people were killed has no gas-tied doors, no ventilation system, no blue stain on the 00:38:59.580 --> 00:39:04.580 walls left by the hydrocyanic acid, which you can see in the little gas chamber, all 00:39:04.580 --> 00:39:07.580 these things you can see. In fact, if you go there and look at the gas chamber that's 00:39:07.580 --> 00:39:12.640 shown to the tourists, I think you're entitled to be most skeptical. It's got a wooden door 00:39:12.640 --> 00:39:18.250 at both ends. Under the wooden door is a gap that high, ladies and gentlemen. Those gas 00:39:18.250 --> 00:39:24.250 chambers are drafty in Auschwitz. They're not gas-tied at all. There's a glass window 00:39:24.250 --> 00:39:29.250 at one of the doors, made of ordinary window glass, that any prisoner could have knocked 00:39:29.250 --> 00:39:33.660 out with his elbow if he wanted to. Well, we don't have to worry about that gas chamber 00:39:33.660 --> 00:39:38.660 that's shown to the tourists anymore because Tantiček Peter, the museum and archive director 00:39:38.660 --> 00:39:47.170 in Auschwitz, now admits that it is a fake. How about this? A friend of mine, the head 00:39:47.170 --> 00:39:50.170 of the Department of History in Freiburg University in Germany, said that the gas chamber 00:39:50.170 --> 00:39:54.170 there was having a bottle of wine with him on September 3 down in Freiburg. I've been 00:39:54.170 --> 00:39:58.170 working in the archives and, as the German historians are, in private they like to meet 00:39:58.170 --> 00:40:02.170 me and pick my brains and we exchange knowledge about where things are and what our views 00:40:02.170 --> 00:40:07.200 are. Professor Bernd Martin, the head of the History Department, with 40,000 students under 00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:11.620 him, he was saying to me, he's left-wing a little, Bernd Martin said, Erwin, I think 00:40:11.620 --> 00:40:15.620 you're wrong about the gas chambers. You know there are gas chambers in Auschwitz. I've 00:40:15.620 --> 00:40:19.780 been there three or four times, he said, as though to reproach me for not going there. 00:40:20.780 --> 00:40:26.030 And I admit it, I've not been to Auschwitz. Why should I? Within five years from now, 00:40:26.030 --> 00:40:31.030 all the historians will admit that Auschwitz is unimportant. Auschwitz would have sunk 00:40:31.030 --> 00:40:37.030 from the ocean's surface leaving a little trail of bubbles. And all that Auschwitz will 00:40:37.030 --> 00:40:42.030 be of interest to us, the historians as a whole, will be why millions of people could 00:40:42.030 --> 00:40:46.030 have been so gullible to believe it without any evidence. It will be a footnote in history. 00:40:46.030 --> 00:40:50.030 That is my view. Believe me, my views usually come true. 00:40:51.030 --> 00:40:55.260 So that's why I haven't bothered to go to Auschwitz. Life is too short. But I've seen 00:40:55.260 --> 00:40:59.260 the videos that people have taken of the gaps between the doors, beneath the doors. I've 00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:03.260 seen the results of forensic tests on the walls of the so-called gas chambers there, 00:41:03.260 --> 00:41:07.260 the forensic tests on the walls of the little real gas chamber, which showed that, yes, 00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:12.260 the real content of cyanide in the walls is 1,040 milligrams per one kilogram of cement. 00:41:12.260 --> 00:41:17.290 So you can't do these tests. Bernd Martin, this professor in Freiburg had been there, 00:41:17.290 --> 00:41:20.290 and he said, you know, I've been there and I've seen it. There were gas chambers in Auschwitz. 00:41:20.290 --> 00:41:25.320 You're totally wrong. And he says, Franticek Pieper, the new museum director, the one who 00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:30.320 replaced the communist director Kazimierz Smolensk a year ago, he meant this. Interesting, 00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:36.320 isn't it? The lie was kept afloat by the communist leadership of Poland until a year ago when 00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.320 Smolensk was sacked and almost immediately the monument and the whole museum was destroyed 00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:46.610 because that was a lie. And Franticek Pieper said to Professor Martin, yes, of course, 00:41:46.610 --> 00:41:49.610 well, you've got to realize it's not only this gas chamber here. There's the other gas 00:41:49.610 --> 00:41:55.990 chambers in Auschwitz, too, in Birkenau, which is three or four miles away from here. 00:41:55.990 --> 00:41:59.990 And then Professor Martin told me he spotted what other people had spotted, the gaps beneath 00:41:59.990 --> 00:42:04.990 the doors, the fact that the square holes in the roof were allegedly the cyanide that 00:42:04.990 --> 00:42:10.990 had been tipped in by SS officers on top, as the eyewitnesses had described after the war, 00:42:10.990 --> 00:42:15.990 that these holes had apparently been installed after the war also to make the building fit 00:42:15.990 --> 00:42:18.990 the eyewitness descriptions, which isn't the way that things really happen in the world. 00:42:18.990 --> 00:42:23.990 In fact, if you go there and look for yourselves, you'll see, ladies and gentlemen, how these 00:42:23.990 --> 00:42:27.990 holes have been put in the ceiling after the war, because they're typical Polish craftsmanship. 00:42:27.990 --> 00:42:34.470 I mean, in one place they tried to drill a hole through the concrete ceiling with pneumatic drills 00:42:34.470 --> 00:42:40.890 and they came across the reinforcing steel bars in the concrete. So they left it. They just left 00:42:40.890 --> 00:42:48.220 the hole, proof of how they tried to make a hole after the place had been built, and then gave it up. 00:42:48.220 --> 00:42:50.700 And it shouldn't take in anyone, but it's taken in... I said to him, I said to him, I said to him, 00:42:50.700 --> 00:42:58.940 I said to him, I said to him, I said to him, I said to him, I said to him, I said to him, 00:43:02.890 --> 00:43:14.540 that this building here is a real gas chamber. People are admitting that no gas chamber was shown to the tourists, 00:43:14.540 --> 00:43:19.270 and so is the crematorium. An admission from the horse is not. 00:43:19.270 --> 00:43:23.270 That the gas chamber in Auschwitz shown to the tourists is a fake. 00:43:23.270 --> 00:43:25.270 It goes to the benefit of the tourists and so does the crematorium. 00:43:25.270 --> 00:43:29.270 Which, of course, should have been obvious to anyone who looks at it, because if you look at the crematorium, 00:43:29.270 --> 00:43:34.270 you will see there's no connection between the retorts, or the furnaces in the crematorium, 00:43:34.270 --> 00:43:37.270 and the chimney standing next to it. The chimney is just a dummy built after the war. 00:43:37.270 --> 00:43:41.190 the wall. You can see that because there isn't a trace of soot on it either. But people don't 00:43:41.190 --> 00:43:45.550 spot these things. It never occurred to them, it never occurred to me, I must admit, to 00:43:45.550 --> 00:43:51.760 insist that chemical tests be carried out on the buildings, because it is too emotionalized. 00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:57.760 So why doesn't Professor, I mean, why didn't Professor Bernd Martin ask the obvious question? 00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:09.980 If you've got the real gas chambers in Auschwitz II, Birkenau, it never occurred to me that 00:44:09.980 --> 00:44:13.900 question, and sometimes one has to ask, who are the dummies? The gas chambers shown to 00:44:13.900 --> 00:44:18.370 the tourists or the tourists themselves who believe in the gas chambers? One thing is 00:44:18.370 --> 00:44:23.670 quite plain to me, ladies and gentlemen, having cognizance of what is in the British 00:44:23.670 --> 00:44:31.710 intercepts, taking cognizance of what the Russian books of Auschwitz reveal, we can 00:44:31.710 --> 00:44:38.870 put the truth about Auschwitz in the following little extremely tasteless capsule. People 00:44:38.870 --> 00:44:42.690 died on the back seat of Senator Edward Kennedy's car in Chapel Quiddick than died in the gas 00:44:42.690 --> 00:44:59.080 chamber in Auschwitz. Well, the answer is that the historians, unable to find any evidence 00:44:59.220 --> 00:45:05.320 have lied and cheated and faked and defrauded and embezzled and swindled and counterfeited 00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:10.040 evidence, and I can give you evidence of this. Take the case of Professor Eberhard Jekyll, 00:45:10.040 --> 00:45:13.720 the head of the history department at the University of Stuttgart, another famous German 00:45:13.720 --> 00:45:17.880 historian. There's his famous smiling face on all the television screens. He was one 00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:21.420 of the historians who said he wasn't going to sit at the same table as me, with good 00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:26.040 reason, ladies and gentlemen, because I see through their rotten tricks. Eberhard Jekyll 00:45:26.040 --> 00:45:28.840 and a journalist called Lea Roche. 00:45:29.220 --> 00:45:33.780 German journalists, between them, produced a four-part television series, which I suppose 00:45:33.780 --> 00:45:38.820 eventually will come to Canada. Watch for it. A television series with a German named 00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:43.980 Der Tod ein Meister aus Deutschland, Death, a Master from Germany. And you can imagine 00:45:43.980 --> 00:45:48.040 what kind of film it was. There were German soldiers bayoneting and killing and plundering 00:45:48.040 --> 00:45:53.100 and murdering and pillaging and looting. There was a slime court on the German people and 00:45:53.100 --> 00:45:57.380 indirectly, of course, on European people, which is why I'm concerned about it. Slime 00:45:57.380 --> 00:45:59.200 court on the Germans by two or three people. There was a slime court on the Germans by 00:45:59.220 --> 00:46:01.840 three people. There were German soldiers here. There were German soldiers here. In 00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:02.900 this case, in this case, there were German soldiers here. In this case, there were German 00:46:02.900 --> 00:46:03.520 soldiers here. In this case, there were German soldiers here. And I can tell you exactly 00:46:03.520 --> 00:46:04.020 what kind of picture this is. And I will tell you what it is. I will tell you the time. 00:46:04.020 --> 00:46:05.000 In this case, it was in the middle of this film. This character who you see here, at 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:06.000 this time, is Professor Jekyll and at the bottom, I would say, Professor Jekyll and 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:07.000 Lea Roche. And one of the scenes they showed, ladies and gentlemen, was this photograph 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.500 here. You can't see them at the back, but at the front. I'll describe to you what it 00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:16.140 shows. No, better. I will say what Eberhard Jekyll says it shows. It's a scene in Romania, 00:46:16.140 --> 00:46:21.260 of tens of thousands of pitiful Jews 00:46:21.260 --> 00:46:23.600 being loaded aboard open cattle trucks 00:46:23.600 --> 00:46:26.460 for shipment to the gas chambers at Auschwitz. 00:46:26.860 --> 00:46:29.620 This was the voiceover on the television series 00:46:29.620 --> 00:46:31.720 Part 2 in the 35th minute of the transmission 00:46:31.720 --> 00:46:34.460 as this photograph was flashed on the screens 00:46:34.460 --> 00:46:36.600 of millions of television sets across Germany. 00:46:38.040 --> 00:46:39.640 Tens of thousands of pitiless Jews 00:46:39.640 --> 00:46:41.520 being loaded aboard open cattle trucks 00:46:41.520 --> 00:46:43.500 for shipment to the gas chambers in Auschwitz. 00:46:44.240 --> 00:46:46.640 Well, I just happened to have a copy of the original photograph. 00:46:47.100 --> 00:46:48.700 Here it is in my left hand. 00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:51.120 You'll notice that bits have been cut off 00:46:51.120 --> 00:46:52.500 of the photograph shown on television 00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:54.620 and bits have been retouched. 00:46:55.640 --> 00:46:57.780 What has been cut off of the photograph shown on television 00:46:57.780 --> 00:46:59.760 are people standing around the platform, 00:47:00.240 --> 00:47:02.510 old women and the like, 00:47:02.630 --> 00:47:03.910 carrying shopping bags, 00:47:04.610 --> 00:47:05.930 which doesn't really go well 00:47:05.930 --> 00:47:07.830 with a pitiful scene of tens of thousands of Jews 00:47:07.830 --> 00:47:10.070 being loaded aboard an open cattle train 00:47:10.070 --> 00:47:10.990 bound for the gas chambers. 00:47:11.870 --> 00:47:13.630 You'll notice that on this train here, 00:47:13.710 --> 00:47:14.590 on the other platform, 00:47:15.230 --> 00:47:17.310 the upper deck windows have been blacked out 00:47:17.310 --> 00:47:18.790 on the television version 00:47:18.790 --> 00:47:21.250 because upper deck windows wouldn't have gone well 00:47:21.250 --> 00:47:24.070 on the picture of a train allegedly being shipped out of Romania 00:47:24.070 --> 00:47:25.450 where they didn't have double-deck trains 00:47:25.450 --> 00:47:27.970 and didn't exist in Germany as far as I know 00:47:27.970 --> 00:47:29.150 during the Second World War either. 00:47:29.550 --> 00:47:31.490 Yet here they are in this photograph 00:47:31.490 --> 00:47:32.690 and it's been blacked out. 00:47:33.350 --> 00:47:34.770 You'll notice that the original photograph 00:47:34.770 --> 00:47:36.550 has no sign of any guards anywhere. 00:47:37.470 --> 00:47:40.770 So either they must have been very docile victims indeed 00:47:40.770 --> 00:47:43.290 to allow themselves to be packed into open cattle trucks 00:47:43.290 --> 00:47:45.870 to an unknown destination without the sign of any... 00:47:45.870 --> 00:47:46.350 Well, okay. 00:47:46.470 --> 00:47:47.290 Well, what is this photograph? 00:47:47.310 --> 00:47:49.110 This photograph, ladies and gentlemen, 00:47:49.110 --> 00:47:50.950 is from the photographic archives 00:47:50.950 --> 00:47:53.310 of Hamburg Central Railway Station. 00:47:54.230 --> 00:47:56.030 It's Hamburg, as you can tell 00:47:56.030 --> 00:47:57.190 by looking at this wall here, 00:47:57.250 --> 00:47:58.810 which is quite a long wall at Hamburg. 00:47:59.430 --> 00:48:01.410 And the other train is a local train 00:48:01.410 --> 00:48:02.330 that got to Lubeck. 00:48:03.190 --> 00:48:06.050 And the actual photograph taken in 1946 00:48:06.050 --> 00:48:08.350 during the British occupation of Hamburg, 00:48:09.030 --> 00:48:10.370 one year after the war was over, 00:48:10.930 --> 00:48:12.770 shows German civilians loaded, 00:48:13.070 --> 00:48:14.690 or in fact willingly boarding, 00:48:15.290 --> 00:48:17.030 coal trains, empty coal trains, 00:48:17.470 --> 00:48:19.670 on a shopping expedition, 00:48:20.170 --> 00:48:21.910 a so-called Hamsterfahrt. 00:48:22.620 --> 00:48:24.140 We have a person here who wants to say something, 00:48:24.240 --> 00:48:25.380 but I won't request you, sir, 00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:27.460 to wait until we have a discussion after the pause. 00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:32.280 Otherwise you will fatally floor my flow of information. 00:48:33.680 --> 00:48:35.440 This photograph, in fact, ladies and gentlemen, 00:48:35.680 --> 00:48:36.600 if you go to Hamburg, 00:48:36.720 --> 00:48:38.360 have a look in the intercity restaurant 00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:40.140 at the Hamburg Central Railway Station. 00:48:40.240 --> 00:48:41.160 You'll find this photograph 00:48:41.160 --> 00:48:42.660 hanging on the wall of the restaurant 00:48:42.660 --> 00:48:45.960 as a display of nostalgia of post-war Germany. 00:48:46.560 --> 00:48:47.950 I wrote a letter, of course, 00:48:47.950 --> 00:48:48.750 to Evald Jekyll, 00:48:49.230 --> 00:48:50.270 saying, dear Professor Jekyll, 00:48:50.370 --> 00:48:52.130 I do earnestly request you in future 00:48:52.130 --> 00:48:53.910 to do your research in the archives 00:48:53.910 --> 00:48:56.030 and not in railway station restaurants. 00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:01.260 But this, unfortunately, is the... 00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:02.760 Okay, we have an urgent question. 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:08.180 Yes? 00:49:08.780 --> 00:49:14.520 In the Netherlands, 00:49:15.220 --> 00:49:16.440 or in Germany, 00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:17.280 in Prague, 00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:18.020 or in Germany, 00:49:18.300 --> 00:49:20.980 there is a whole number of people 00:49:20.980 --> 00:49:22.540 who feel that this is an important thing. 00:49:22.660 --> 00:49:28.040 Do you think that the Netherlands 00:49:28.040 --> 00:49:29.240 or other countries... 00:49:29.240 --> 00:49:29.980 Ladies and gentlemen, 00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:32.180 I repeat what this gentleman says. 00:49:32.380 --> 00:49:32.540 Okay. 00:49:32.540 --> 00:49:34.460 Am I aware that crimes were committed 00:49:34.460 --> 00:49:36.460 by the Nazis in concentration camps 00:49:36.460 --> 00:49:37.480 in Holland and elsewhere? 00:49:37.640 --> 00:49:38.560 The answer is yes. 00:49:43.710 --> 00:49:44.470 That's quite all right. 00:49:44.510 --> 00:49:45.210 We can take a discussion. 00:49:45.370 --> 00:49:46.690 I mean, it is a valid point, 00:49:46.790 --> 00:49:48.350 but I did make... 00:49:48.350 --> 00:49:55.170 And that they were Nazis? 00:49:56.220 --> 00:49:57.280 Well, if you do wait 00:49:57.280 --> 00:49:58.440 until the end of this talk, 00:49:58.520 --> 00:49:59.640 we will go into these figures 00:49:59.640 --> 00:50:00.820 and the whole statistical question. 00:50:02.080 --> 00:50:03.840 I have made it quite plainly... 00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:06.300 It's quite all right. 00:50:06.300 --> 00:50:06.800 It's quite all right 00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:07.720 to have this kind of discussion, 00:50:07.720 --> 00:50:08.780 but I would prefer to have it 00:50:08.780 --> 00:50:09.800 in the discussion of the area 00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:12.540 rather than in the middle of the action. 00:50:12.560 --> 00:50:12.660 Thank you. 00:50:12.660 --> 00:50:12.720 Thank you. 00:50:16.570 --> 00:50:22.070 You see, we are faced, 00:50:22.150 --> 00:50:23.410 and this gentleman is quite right 00:50:23.410 --> 00:50:24.150 in one respect, 00:50:24.270 --> 00:50:26.870 we're faced with three important questions 00:50:26.870 --> 00:50:29.010 concerning the whole of the Auschwitz legend. 00:50:29.590 --> 00:50:30.390 And it is a legend. 00:50:30.490 --> 00:50:31.570 I'm not going to call it a lie 00:50:31.570 --> 00:50:32.810 because calling it a lie 00:50:32.810 --> 00:50:33.850 implies that the people 00:50:33.850 --> 00:50:35.030 who tell us about it now 00:50:35.030 --> 00:50:37.130 are willfully telling another truth. 00:50:37.490 --> 00:50:37.790 They're not. 00:50:37.890 --> 00:50:38.910 They're repeating a legend 00:50:38.910 --> 00:50:40.810 which appears plausible to them, 00:50:41.350 --> 00:50:42.310 rather like a religion. 00:50:43.110 --> 00:50:43.730 It's a legend. 00:50:44.850 --> 00:50:46.650 But there are three important questions 00:50:46.650 --> 00:50:46.790 we must ask. 00:50:46.790 --> 00:50:52.470 arise if it was a legend. The first question is, how do we explain the eyewitnesses? Isn't 00:50:52.470 --> 00:50:57.510 it? The second question is, as this gentleman was saying, well, what happened to all the 00:50:57.510 --> 00:51:01.650 Jews who vanished? And the third question is, where did the legend come from in the 00:51:01.650 --> 00:51:05.970 first place? I'll take it in reverse order. Where did the legend come from? Last time 00:51:05.970 --> 00:51:09.810 I was here, 18 months ago, I set it out in some detail in the documents, but I'll paraphrase 00:51:09.810 --> 00:51:17.070 it quickly now. In 1942, the British cabinet received a message from the head of the World 00:51:17.070 --> 00:51:22.930 Jewish Congress in Geneva, a man called Gerhard Wigner, alleging that at Hitler's 00:51:22.930 --> 00:51:28.830 headquarters, the decision had just been taken to liquidate millions of European Jews in 00:51:28.830 --> 00:51:33.550 special gas chambers in the concentration camps which had already been built. And the 00:51:33.550 --> 00:51:36.830 request was made to the British government to pass on this information to the headquarters 00:51:36.830 --> 00:51:41.070 of the World Jewish Congress in New York. Whether it was passed on or not, I don't know, 00:51:41.110 --> 00:51:44.470 but what is important is that the British government's psychological warfare seized 00:51:44.470 --> 00:51:47.150 on this little tidbit and boosted it into a major, major, major, major, major, major, 00:51:47.150 --> 00:51:53.570 propaganda lie against Germany. A grotesque lie. And I'm quoting there the words of 00:51:53.570 --> 00:51:57.650 the head of the Joint Intelligence Committee in Britain, Victor Cavendish-Bendie, Lord 00:51:57.650 --> 00:52:02.870 Portland, who died three or four months ago. A grotesque lie, which he compared with the 00:52:02.870 --> 00:52:06.950 story that German soldiers in World War I had cut off the hands of Belgian children 00:52:06.950 --> 00:52:12.120 or Belgian babies. In World War I, we used that story, too, of course. We made great 00:52:12.120 --> 00:52:17.200 money out of it. But two or three years after World War I was over, our brave prime 00:52:17.240 --> 00:52:21.000 minister stood up in the House of Commons and apologized to the German people for having 00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:26.120 told that lie. It did a lot of harm to the British psychological warfare effort in World 00:52:26.120 --> 00:52:31.280 War I. And Victor Cavendish-Bendie in World War II was concerned that by propagating the 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:35.840 legend about the gas chambers, which was likely to be unmasked at any moment, we might be 00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:41.160 damaging our very cleverly constructed and contrived psychological warfare effort. He 00:52:41.160 --> 00:52:46.640 rather thought we had been hijacked by ethnic minorities for their own causes, for their 00:52:46.640 --> 00:52:47.120 own purposes. 00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:52.880 So he advised the British government to go soft on that particular propaganda. So that, 00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:58.960 in my view, is a possible, or even a probable cause, probable origin, of where the legend 00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:05.240 of the gas chambers came from. What about the eyewitnesses? The second question. People 00:53:05.240 --> 00:53:09.840 say it to me again and again today, two television reporters, all week, newspaper reporters, 00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:15.240 but there are hundreds of eyewitnesses, Mr. Irving, who, who what? Saw it happening? No. 00:53:15.240 --> 00:53:17.400 None of the eyewitnesses actually saw it happening, but they knew about it. And they knew about 00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:17.840 it. 00:53:18.040 --> 00:53:23.240 They knew about the gas chambers in Auschwitz. I think the only eyewitness who claims to 00:53:23.240 --> 00:53:27.240 have seen it happening was a man called Kurt Gerstein, who wrote a report about it for 00:53:27.240 --> 00:53:31.440 the French in French captivity. He wrote seven different versions of the report before he 00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:36.040 committed suicide in his prison cell in French captivity. And the Gerstein report has now 00:53:36.040 --> 00:53:42.330 been, to my mind, and I know it's a controversial subject, the Gerstein report has been deflated, 00:53:42.330 --> 00:53:48.620 shall we say, as a historical document. Eyewitnesses are a very suspect source of 00:53:48.780 --> 00:54:00.980 information. They're useful, but they're not useful. Emotional, jumping, imaginative, 00:54:00.980 --> 00:54:12.040 a uniquely human emotion, which is the emotion of pride. If you are in a concentration camp, 00:54:12.040 --> 00:54:16.040 if you are a survivor, if you're a survivor of Auschwitz, and there are thousands and 00:54:16.040 --> 00:54:20.240 thousands upon thousands of survivors of Auschwitz around today, and I'm glad for every one of 00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:24.800 them. A remarkable fact, of course, that on the one hand, we're told that Marxists had 00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:28.800 this dedicated program to exterminate all the Jews they got their hands on. And on the 00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:29.800 other hand, there are thousands who were in the jaws of death in Auschwitz, and yet, they're 00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:30.800 still alive. And I think that's a very important thing. And I think that's a very important 00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:31.800 thing. And I think that's a very important thing. And I think that's a very important thing. And 00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:40.960 yet, if you were in Auschwitz, and somebody says to you, Mr. Irving, what did you see? 00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:45.960 I can't say I spent three years in Auschwitz peeling potatoes or digging anti-tank trenches 00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:50.960 or whatever, or working in the rubber factory. That's not what my listeners want to hear 00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:54.960 me say. Pride demands that I must have been at the center of events or at least near the 00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:59.990 center of events. It's a human nature and so people put themselves near the center of 00:54:59.990 --> 00:55:01.990 events in Auschwitz, which was the gas chambers. They've been told about it before. But I don't 00:55:01.990 --> 00:55:03.830 They've been taught about it for 45 years, 00:55:03.950 --> 00:55:06.250 that gas chambers were all that Auschwitz was about. 00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:11.400 And so pride dictates to them that they relate first in hazy detail, 00:55:11.540 --> 00:55:13.480 then in outline, and therein with more confidence, 00:55:13.620 --> 00:55:15.240 because they, too, have seen the Hollywood movies 00:55:15.240 --> 00:55:16.780 and the Holocaust series on television. 00:55:17.220 --> 00:55:18.560 They know what the gassing looks like. 00:55:19.680 --> 00:55:24.000 And it's oh so embarrassing when years later, in 1976, I think, 00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:26.900 the American government released the 48 photographs 00:55:26.900 --> 00:55:29.900 that would take the magnificent photographs of Auschwitz concentration camp, 00:55:30.160 --> 00:55:32.340 and suddenly the stories go pop, pop. 00:55:32.500 --> 00:55:37.450 For example, there was a man who wrote his memoirs, 00:55:37.550 --> 00:55:38.950 in which he describes, he's Hungarian, 00:55:39.110 --> 00:55:43.590 he describes arriving in Auschwitz concentration camp on 25th of August, 1944. 00:55:44.290 --> 00:55:48.670 He arrived just in time to witness a mass extermination of 20,000 prisoners 00:55:48.670 --> 00:55:50.670 who had arrived during the previous 24 hours. 00:55:51.180 --> 00:55:54.960 They were exterminated by their... 00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:59.020 And then they were burned... 00:55:59.020 --> 00:56:02.440 Horizon was blocked... 00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:03.280 Graves were dug... 00:56:03.280 --> 00:56:07.730 And the unfortunate thing for this gentleman was that that very afternoon, 00:56:07.870 --> 00:56:10.590 the American Air Force had a spotter plane flying over Auschwitz. 00:56:10.590 --> 00:56:11.610 It was August. 00:56:11.610 --> 00:56:14.170 Brilliant, clear, central European weather. 00:56:14.170 --> 00:56:16.570 You could see the people walking around on the streets below. 00:56:16.570 --> 00:56:20.090 Needless to say, none of what he described in the eyewitness testimony. 00:56:20.090 --> 00:56:23.560 You know, I can give you one very good panel out here. 00:56:23.560 --> 00:56:26.880 Even if we were inclined to believe the Auschwitz stories, 00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:30.880 I don't see any reason to, because we have an equal volume of stories 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.560 from eyewitnesses in Dachau concentration camp, near Munich, 00:56:34.560 --> 00:56:39.560 who claimed that they're people of intellect, people of education, doctors, officers, policemen, 00:56:39.560 --> 00:56:42.020 who claimed to have seen gassing operations, 00:56:42.020 --> 00:56:44.020 going on in Dachau. 00:56:44.020 --> 00:56:48.020 Same kind of thing, gas chambers, selection, and all the rest of it. 00:56:48.020 --> 00:56:52.020 And yet, now, no reputable historian accepts that there were gas chambers in Dachau. 00:56:52.020 --> 00:56:56.020 The West German government insisted that the Americans dismantle the gas chamber 00:56:56.020 --> 00:56:59.020 that they had installed there for the benefit of tourists after the war. 00:56:59.020 --> 00:57:03.020 The American troops who occupied Munich at that time, 00:57:03.020 --> 00:57:07.020 they kind of titivated up a building there and called it a gas chamber for the tourists. 00:57:07.020 --> 00:57:11.020 And the American government made them take down the sign, because they said it was a fraud. 00:57:12.020 --> 00:57:17.020 And the American government and all the German historians admit that there was no gas chamber in Dachau. 00:57:17.020 --> 00:57:21.020 And if you've got a file full of eyewitness stories, the gas chamber's there, too. 00:57:21.020 --> 00:57:25.020 So the eyewitnesses are, and again, I'm going to be tasteless, 00:57:25.020 --> 00:57:28.020 I think they're an interesting case for psychological analysis. 00:57:28.020 --> 00:57:31.310 Why do people say they saw things? 00:57:31.310 --> 00:57:36.530 But you cannot rest history, particularly because there's nothing in the archives. 00:57:36.530 --> 00:57:42.530 The only documents that exist in the archives have now been put together in a magnificent documentation, 00:57:42.530 --> 00:57:47.530 not by us, not by the dissident historians or the revisionists, as we're sometimes called, 00:57:47.530 --> 00:57:50.530 but by the Holocaust historians. 00:57:50.530 --> 00:57:55.530 They've issued a magnificent documentation authored by a Frenchman called Jean-Claude Prissac. 00:57:55.530 --> 00:57:57.530 And I really take off my hat here. 00:57:57.530 --> 00:57:59.530 He's done a magnificent piece of research. 00:57:59.530 --> 00:58:04.000 He's worked in the Polish archives, archives, German archives, of course. 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:12.780 And he's produced a book this big with blueprints and diagrams and photos of buildings, 00:58:12.780 --> 00:58:17.930 everything to do with Auschwitz, proving that everything was there except the gas chambers. 00:58:18.930 --> 00:58:21.190 He's proved everything else. 00:58:21.190 --> 00:58:25.190 Prissac, to his honor, when he's shown the gas chambers that the tourists are shown, 00:58:25.190 --> 00:58:27.190 spots the immediate inner flaws. 00:58:27.190 --> 00:58:32.190 And he, too, says that he has to assume that these buildings are there only for purposes of display, 00:58:32.190 --> 00:58:35.190 because they cannot have been gas chambers at the time. 00:58:35.190 --> 00:58:39.960 But he accepts that they were gas chambers because there are two or three German documents. 00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:43.960 Let me tell you what these documents are, because sooner or later they will come up against us. 00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:49.210 They are the last shots the battleship Auschwitz can still fire at us. 00:58:49.210 --> 00:58:52.210 The first document mentions Vergasungskeller. 00:58:52.210 --> 00:58:57.400 It's a document written by a German engineer, an Auschwitz to an architect, 00:58:57.400 --> 00:59:00.400 in which the word Vergasungskeller is quite clearly there. 00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:02.400 And the content is something like this. 00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:06.400 Because the concreting work on the roof over the Weichamkeller, 00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:11.400 which is the mortuary attached to the cemetery where the crematorium is not complete, 00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:15.400 we're going to have to use the Vergasungskeller for a while instead. 00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:17.470 Vergasungskeller. 00:59:17.470 --> 00:59:20.920 You can translate that as gassing cellar. 00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:23.920 But those of you who are German here, or those of you who know German, 00:59:23.920 --> 00:59:27.920 will know that one idiosyncrasy of the German language, ladies and gentlemen, 00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:30.920 is that many German words can have many meanings. 00:59:30.920 --> 00:59:32.980 The same word can have many meanings. 00:59:32.980 --> 00:59:36.980 And the word Vergaser or Vergasen is an example of that. 00:59:36.980 --> 00:59:41.240 It can mean to gas. It can mean to gasify. 00:59:41.240 --> 00:59:44.240 Those of you who have German motor cars have a Vergaser. 00:59:44.240 --> 00:59:46.620 It's the carburettor. 00:59:46.620 --> 00:59:47.620 And it's as simple as that. 00:59:47.620 --> 00:59:53.620 And as a cremation process in a crematorium involves the production of very high temperatures 00:59:53.620 --> 00:59:56.620 to cremate human bodies, human remains, 00:59:56.620 --> 00:59:59.620 they have a high combustion principle there as well, 00:59:59.620 --> 01:00:04.620 which probably, I'm not a cremation expert, needs a Vergasungskeller. 01:00:04.620 --> 01:00:12.550 You could certainly identify on the roof with a gas chamber. 01:00:12.550 --> 01:00:16.550 I am certain that that document means the one thing and not the other in a minute. 01:00:16.550 --> 01:00:18.550 Because there's another document that Pressag has produced, 01:00:18.550 --> 01:00:21.550 which appears even more damning for the incidents. 01:00:21.550 --> 01:00:24.410 The revisionists. 01:00:24.410 --> 01:00:29.410 And this is a German document which uses the word Vergasungsoperation, 01:00:29.410 --> 01:00:32.150 gassing operations. 01:00:32.150 --> 01:00:34.150 How do you get around that one? 01:00:34.150 --> 01:00:38.150 This document is signed by the commandant himself, by Rudolf Hoess, 01:00:38.150 --> 01:00:43.150 and is circulated to all the staff at Auschwitz of any rank and consequence. 01:00:43.150 --> 01:00:46.150 And the document says roughly the following. 01:00:46.150 --> 01:00:51.150 A number of members of the staff of this camp have suffered personal injury 01:00:51.150 --> 01:00:56.150 from failing to observe the safety precautions during gassing operations. 01:00:56.150 --> 01:00:58.400 And he then goes on to say that he can't accept the consequences. 01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:01.400 The staff have failed to observe the security precautions. 01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:03.400 It's their own funeral, so to speak. 01:01:03.400 --> 01:01:08.400 And he urges the staff in future to adhere to the safety precautions down to the last instance. 01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:12.760 Now when you first look at that document, as I'm sure Jean-Claude Pressag did, 01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:16.170 with his limited expertise, you'll take an invite. 01:01:16.170 --> 01:01:21.170 You think this document can only mean, it's the $60,000 document, 01:01:21.170 --> 01:01:26.400 gassing operations in Auschwitz, 01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:35.480 which is what the whole thing, I'll explain why in a moment, 01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:41.240 refers purely to the gassing operations that fumigate building after building after building 01:01:41.240 --> 01:01:43.530 in this immense Auschwitz complex. 01:01:43.530 --> 01:01:45.600 Here it is again, you can see it. 01:01:45.600 --> 01:01:51.420 An immense complex, two or three hundred barrack buildings, 01:01:51.420 --> 01:01:54.420 all infested by people who have arrived from all over Europe, 01:01:54.420 --> 01:01:58.420 and the Germans are confronted with an appalling outbreak of typhus, 01:01:58.420 --> 01:02:02.420 which is wiping out not only the slave laborers, who they don't care about, 01:02:02.420 --> 01:02:04.420 but there are officers like Meis. 01:02:04.420 --> 01:02:07.420 So they're gassing the buildings methodically. 01:02:07.420 --> 01:02:11.420 If you buy a house in the southern states of the United States, ladies and gentlemen, 01:02:11.420 --> 01:02:14.420 the first question you have to ask the estate agent, the realtor, is, 01:02:14.420 --> 01:02:16.420 when was it last tented? 01:02:16.420 --> 01:02:18.520 When was it last tented? 01:02:18.520 --> 01:02:23.030 Wooden frame houses there, you have tarpaulin sheets thrown over the whole building, 01:02:23.030 --> 01:02:26.030 and then the fumigators go in wearing special protective clothing, 01:02:26.030 --> 01:02:31.120 adhering to the safety precautions, and they open poison gas canisters to kill the rats, 01:02:31.120 --> 01:02:33.120 the lice, the termites, above all. 01:02:33.120 --> 01:02:35.510 The building is tented for two or three days. 01:02:35.510 --> 01:02:37.510 And so it was in Auschwitz. 01:02:37.510 --> 01:02:41.510 Tons upon tons of cyanide gas in the proprietary form Cyclone B 01:02:41.510 --> 01:02:45.510 was sent to Auschwitz and the other camps for fumigating the buildings. 01:02:45.510 --> 01:02:48.510 And the jobs were carried out by German staff. 01:02:48.510 --> 01:02:52.510 And occasionally they went into a building before it had been properly ventilated afterwards, 01:02:52.510 --> 01:02:55.510 and then they suffered unfortunate consequences themselves. 01:02:55.510 --> 01:02:57.510 And that is what the first document is about. 01:02:57.510 --> 01:03:00.510 And the proof of that, and the proof of the previous document, 01:03:00.510 --> 01:03:03.510 being harmless and innocuous documents, is as follows. 01:03:03.510 --> 01:03:04.510 I was shown the first document. 01:03:04.510 --> 01:03:08.510 In fact, during the Ernst Zündel trial in Toraja, 01:03:08.510 --> 01:03:14.510 when I was accepted by the court as an export historical expert witness, 01:03:14.510 --> 01:03:20.150 the prosecution put the first document, the Rekaufsumskalle, on the screen, 01:03:20.150 --> 01:03:22.180 and asked for my comments. 01:03:22.180 --> 01:03:27.180 And I had given my comments about the fact that it was obviously to do with the combustion process. 01:03:27.180 --> 01:03:30.180 The picture was off the screen, and I said, 01:03:30.180 --> 01:03:32.180 excuse me, can we please have the document back on the screen, 01:03:32.180 --> 01:03:34.180 because it occurred to me that what was significant 01:03:34.180 --> 01:03:36.180 was not what was on the document, 01:03:36.180 --> 01:03:39.470 or what was not a security classification, 01:03:39.470 --> 01:03:41.760 a secret stamp. 01:03:41.760 --> 01:03:46.590 We're told that this holocaust, this gassing of millions of Jews, 01:03:46.590 --> 01:03:50.960 was an operation in the whole world, 01:03:50.960 --> 01:03:53.120 so secret that most Germans never knew anything about it, 01:03:53.120 --> 01:04:01.530 so secret that Adolf Hitler personally ordered all the documents destroyed. 01:04:01.530 --> 01:04:05.600 And yet here is a document which has no secret stamp on it. 01:04:05.600 --> 01:04:08.920 Believe me, ladies and gentlemen, having worked in the archives for 30 years, 01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:11.920 I know that German documents are littered with security classifications, 01:04:11.920 --> 01:04:14.920 and if you say, all right, this was a carbon copy, 01:04:14.920 --> 01:04:16.920 perhaps they omitted to stamp the carbon copy, 01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:18.920 then I can tell you the following. 01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:23.920 German civil service practice requires that every official document, 01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:25.920 every official letter and so on, 01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:27.920 has to have what's called a Briefbuchnummer, 01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:29.920 a letter register number, 01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:31.920 which is something like 23789, 01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:34.920 a bleak strip 43, which is the year, 01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:36.920 followed by the security classification, 01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:38.920 G-E-H, behind it, 01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:40.920 G-K-D-O-S, behind a commander's iron, 01:04:40.920 --> 01:04:42.920 top military secret, 01:04:42.920 --> 01:04:46.920 top state secret on civilian documents. 01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:48.920 So you would have known just from the Briefbuchnummer 01:04:48.920 --> 01:04:50.920 whether it was security classified or not, 01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:52.920 and the answer was it wasn't. 01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:54.920 No, it wasn't even confidential. 01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:57.920 These documents, which the Holocaust historians regard 01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.920 as cardinal kingpins of their case, 01:05:00.920 --> 01:05:05.920 are documents, in fact, of a janitorial level, I would say. 01:05:05.920 --> 01:05:08.920 Literally, they're concerned with the fumigation of the building, 01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:10.920 nothing more and nothing less. 01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:13.430 What is the evidence? 01:05:13.430 --> 01:05:15.430 It goes to be the legend. 01:05:15.430 --> 01:05:19.940 Was there, in fact, a Hitler order for the killing of millions of Jews? 01:05:19.940 --> 01:05:21.940 Well, I've shown this document before, 01:05:21.940 --> 01:05:22.940 and I'll show it to you again. 01:05:22.940 --> 01:05:25.940 It's the one that the Holocaust historians can't get out of, 01:05:25.940 --> 01:05:29.550 from the files of the German Ministry of Justice, 01:05:29.550 --> 01:05:31.550 the wartime Ministry of Justice, 01:05:31.550 --> 01:05:33.550 a document signed by the Secretary of State 01:05:33.550 --> 01:05:34.550 and the Ministry of Justice, 01:05:34.550 --> 01:05:37.550 a man of about the same importance as your Secretary of State, 01:05:37.550 --> 01:05:39.550 Jerry Weiner, in this country, 01:05:39.550 --> 01:05:41.930 but probably consuming more intelligence. 01:05:42.930 --> 01:05:47.940 Yes, Minister Lammes. 01:05:47.940 --> 01:05:48.940 I mentioned that, 01:05:48.940 --> 01:05:49.940 and some people have been asking me 01:05:49.940 --> 01:05:51.940 why I'm not charging tax on the books at the back, 01:05:51.940 --> 01:05:54.940 and the answer is I want not a cent to go to the Canadian government, 01:05:54.940 --> 01:06:05.010 where it will finance Mr. Jerry Weiner's smears on me. 01:06:05.010 --> 01:06:08.010 This is from the files of the German Ministry of Justice, 01:06:08.010 --> 01:06:10.010 1942, after the Wannsee Conference, 01:06:10.010 --> 01:06:13.360 which we're told is when the decision was taken, 01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:15.360 after, in the middle of 1942, 01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:18.360 when, in fact, we're told the Holocaust was at its height. 01:06:18.360 --> 01:06:19.360 Yet here we have, 01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:21.360 I, Minister Lammes, 01:06:21.360 --> 01:06:22.360 informs me, 01:06:22.360 --> 01:06:24.360 that the Führer of the Ministry of Justice, 01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:25.360 Reich Minister Lammes, 01:06:25.360 --> 01:06:27.360 who is the head of the civil service, 01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:29.360 the prime minister in a dictatorship, 01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:31.360 Reich Minister Lammes informs me 01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:33.360 that the Führer has repeatedly ordained 01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:36.360 that he wants the solution to the Jewish problem 01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:39.360 postponed until after the war is over. 01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:40.590 I won't find that document 01:06:40.590 --> 01:06:42.590 quoted in any of the history books here in general, 01:06:42.590 --> 01:06:44.590 because it doesn't fit in with the modern theories. 01:06:44.590 --> 01:06:48.040 And what about that 50,000 total in Auschwitz? 01:06:48.040 --> 01:06:49.040 It is a crime, as I said, 01:06:49.040 --> 01:06:52.040 it's 50,000 innocent people being killed, 01:06:52.040 --> 01:06:54.040 in some way or other. 01:06:54.040 --> 01:06:56.040 50,000 people killed by the Germans, 01:06:56.040 --> 01:06:57.040 the Nazis, 01:06:57.040 --> 01:06:59.040 in the concentration camp Auschwitz 01:06:59.040 --> 01:07:00.040 in three years, 01:07:00.040 --> 01:07:02.040 1942, 1943 and 1944. 01:07:02.040 --> 01:07:04.040 It's a huge crime, 01:07:04.040 --> 01:07:06.040 about the size of the number of people 01:07:06.040 --> 01:07:09.840 that we British killed in Hamburg in a night. 01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:10.840 You've got to, 01:07:10.840 --> 01:07:11.840 , 01:07:11.840 --> 01:07:12.840 as the Germans say, 01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:14.840 you've got to compare crime with crime. 01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:18.840 This is precisely what my opponents don't want. 01:07:18.840 --> 01:07:20.840 They want that crime to remain 01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:21.840 as the only monstrous crime 01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:22.840 this century, 01:07:22.840 --> 01:07:24.840 in fact, this millennium, 01:07:24.840 --> 01:07:25.840 where all the other crimes 01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:27.840 fade away into insignificance. 01:07:27.840 --> 01:07:30.840 And this is not conducive 01:07:30.840 --> 01:07:33.840 to a healing of relations between nations. 01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:35.840 So if you ask me why I do this, 01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:36.840 it is because of that. 01:07:36.840 --> 01:07:38.840 I believe in friendship between nations. 01:07:38.840 --> 01:07:40.840 I believe in friendship between races. 01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:43.840 I believe in destroying and disposing 01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:45.840 of that which divides us. 01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:46.900 When people say, 01:07:46.900 --> 01:07:48.900 Mr. Erlin, why do you do this for the Germans? 01:07:48.900 --> 01:07:50.900 Why do you write these books for Germany? 01:07:50.900 --> 01:07:51.900 I answer, 01:07:51.900 --> 01:07:52.900 I don't do it for Germany or the Germans. 01:07:52.900 --> 01:07:53.900 I do it for the truth 01:07:53.900 --> 01:07:54.900 because I'm a historian. 01:07:54.900 --> 01:07:55.900 Winston Churchill himself said 01:07:55.900 --> 01:07:56.900 the job of a historian is to find out 01:07:56.900 --> 01:07:57.900 what happened and why. 01:07:57.900 --> 01:07:58.900 And that's what I've tried to do here this evening, 01:07:58.900 --> 01:07:59.900 ladies and gentlemen, 01:07:59.900 --> 01:08:00.900 by destroying the battleship Auschwitz, 01:08:00.900 --> 01:08:02.220 by sinking that battleship Auschwitz, 01:08:02.220 --> 01:08:03.220 so that in a few years from now 01:08:03.220 --> 01:08:04.220 I leave just a little trail of bubbles. 01:08:04.220 --> 01:08:05.220 I hope that I've done something 01:08:05.220 --> 01:08:06.220 to bring nations closer together 01:08:06.220 --> 01:08:07.220 because it will, 01:08:07.220 --> 01:08:08.220 four or five years from now, 01:08:08.220 --> 01:08:09.220 you'll hear my, 01:08:09.220 --> 01:08:10.220 my, 01:08:10.220 --> 01:08:11.220 my, 01:08:11.220 --> 01:08:12.220 my, 01:08:12.220 --> 01:08:13.220 my, 01:08:13.220 --> 01:08:14.220 my, 01:08:14.220 --> 01:08:15.600 my, 01:08:15.600 --> 01:08:16.600 my, 01:08:16.600 --> 01:08:17.600 my, 01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:18.600 my, 01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:19.600 my, 01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:20.600 my, 01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:21.600 my, 01:08:21.600 --> 01:08:22.600 my, 01:08:22.600 --> 01:08:23.600 my, 01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:24.600 my, 01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:25.600 my, 01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:26.600 my, 01:08:26.600 --> 01:08:27.600 my, 01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:28.600 my, 01:08:28.600 --> 01:08:29.600 my, 01:08:29.600 --> 01:08:30.600 my, 01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:31.600 my, 01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:32.600 my, 01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:33.600 my, 01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:34.600 my, 01:08:34.600 --> 01:08:35.600 my, 01:08:35.600 --> 01:08:36.600 my, 01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:37.600 my, 01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:38.600 my, 01:08:38.600 --> 01:08:39.600 my, 01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:44.600 my, 01:08:44.600 --> 01:08:45.600 my, 01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:46.600 my, 01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:47.600 my, 01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:48.600 my, 01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:49.600 my, 01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:50.600 my, 01:08:50.600 --> 01:08:51.600 my, 01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:52.600 my, 01:08:52.600 --> 01:08:53.600 my, 01:08:53.600 --> 01:08:58.520 The evidence justifies my hypothesis, the hypothesis I put to you this evening, 01:08:59.120 --> 01:09:05.520 the hypothesis that probably Auschwitz was one of the war's most gruesome labor camps, 01:09:06.040 --> 01:09:08.220 but no more and no less. Thank you. 01:09:08.580 --> 01:09:30.480 That is the end of the lecture part of this evening's events, ladies and gentlemen, 01:09:30.480 --> 01:09:33.260 but I am going to come back here after about 15 minutes interval, 01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:37.640 10 minutes to give you time to draw breath and get some water or whatever is at the back or outside, 01:09:37.640 --> 01:09:40.860 and meanwhile I'll be at my table at the back, sir, 01:09:41.340 --> 01:09:43.880 and I will answer questions as honestly as I can, 01:09:43.920 --> 01:09:48.380 and I do hope we have a lot of opponents here so we can hear finally what the opposing case is. 01:09:48.740 --> 01:09:49.020 Thank you. 01:09:55.040 --> 01:10:41.850 Sit back down now. That's a very concise discussion. 01:10:42.450 --> 01:11:26.360 The only rules of the game are there should be a visible question mark at the end of the adage question, 01:11:26.480 --> 01:11:29.320 because I know there's great temptation to stand up and deliver speeches, 01:11:29.400 --> 01:11:31.760 but sometimes little speeches can be a bit trusted. 01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:33.360 He will have a personal comment. 01:11:34.420 --> 01:11:48.830 I have a book called The Arms of Crook in Manchester. 01:11:49.610 --> 01:11:55.170 In that book, he claims and states along the same lines as what you're saying, sir, 01:11:55.870 --> 01:11:58.450 that they were labor camps and not gun camps. 01:11:59.470 --> 01:12:06.290 I'm wondering, my question is, on the basis of that, if his statements are true, why wasn't it true? 01:12:06.950 --> 01:12:13.670 Why wasn't Crook labeled for being the monster responsible for taking all these people 01:12:13.810 --> 01:12:17.670 and making them all work for slave labor and guarding support on your behalf? 01:12:18.850 --> 01:12:23.210 The question is, why wasn't Crook, the famous essence of the steel firm, 01:12:23.990 --> 01:12:27.910 prosecuted or penalized for using the same labor 01:12:28.570 --> 01:12:31.670 which would reman sich the rightize of his book, the Arms of Crok. 01:12:31.670 --> 01:12:33.670 The answer is quite a astonishing one, 01:12:34.350 --> 01:12:35.150 that at the end of the war, 01:12:35.150 --> 01:12:36.910 the Americans who were 01:12:36.950 --> 01:12:38.850 crime motivators behind the 01:12:38.850 --> 01:12:40.730 Nuremberg trials, drew up a very 01:12:40.730 --> 01:12:42.570 traditional list of who they were going to put on the list. 01:12:42.570 --> 01:12:44.630 Adam, then he wrote, but Ola Gustav 01:12:44.630 --> 01:12:46.710 was one of the first names they put on the list. 01:12:47.210 --> 01:12:48.450 Followed by Dalma, Shakir, 01:12:48.530 --> 01:12:51.050 and Martin, and so on. 01:12:51.590 --> 01:12:52.750 And I think relatively 01:12:52.750 --> 01:12:54.590 late in the day, around about the late 01:12:54.590 --> 01:12:56.710 summer of 1945, when they first 01:12:56.710 --> 01:12:58.230 began looking around, 01:12:58.510 --> 01:13:00.650 they realized that he was about 130 01:13:00.650 --> 01:13:02.550 years old, who he was anyway, very, very 01:13:02.550 --> 01:13:04.050 old, and he'd totally seen out, 01:13:04.550 --> 01:13:06.510 and it would have been totally impossible to put 01:13:06.510 --> 01:13:08.530 that quote in the doc 01:13:08.530 --> 01:13:10.050 at Nuremberg, because that was a bit 01:13:10.050 --> 01:13:12.070 of a devoting, colossal sympathy for him, 01:13:12.210 --> 01:13:13.850 because he was such an ancient, unseeing 01:13:13.850 --> 01:13:16.170 old man. So he possibly 01:13:16.170 --> 01:13:18.050 was then ventilated into putting his wife 01:13:18.050 --> 01:13:20.010 on trial, but the idea of having 01:13:20.010 --> 01:13:22.070 a woman put on trial, who might be a dead, dead 01:13:22.070 --> 01:13:24.290 man, he was also unacceptable 01:13:24.290 --> 01:13:25.890 to the Americans, and so they hit on 01:13:25.890 --> 01:13:27.890 the idea of putting his son on trial, 01:13:27.970 --> 01:13:28.810 instead of helping him. 01:13:29.790 --> 01:13:30.990 And I think it was only 01:13:30.990 --> 01:13:33.490 put on trial, and 01:13:33.490 --> 01:13:35.890 as a recognition of that case, 01:13:35.950 --> 01:13:36.450 as an example, 01:13:36.510 --> 01:13:38.330 of how haphazard the whole system of 01:13:38.330 --> 01:13:39.870 choosing defendants in the Nuremberg 01:13:39.870 --> 01:13:42.210 trials was, the idea that 01:13:42.210 --> 01:13:44.070 if you can't find the actual defendant, then 01:13:44.070 --> 01:13:45.110 take his son instead. 01:13:45.970 --> 01:13:47.770 So the Nuremberg trials are a chattel, 01:13:48.150 --> 01:13:50.070 or the, I've written a very good book on it, 01:13:50.110 --> 01:13:51.730 which was published by the German newspaper, 01:13:51.730 --> 01:13:53.410 many, many years ago, 01:13:53.970 --> 01:13:56.090 and it's one of my favorite German big-time books, 01:13:56.150 --> 01:13:58.090 and eventually I'll probably get around to an English 01:13:58.090 --> 01:14:00.250 version of it, now that I 01:14:00.250 --> 01:14:02.070 have the private diary of the American Chief 01:14:02.070 --> 01:14:04.230 Prosecutor for Justice, Robert A. Jackson, 01:14:04.430 --> 01:14:06.110 one of my favorite leaders, in fact, 01:14:06.510 --> 01:14:08.510 , 01:14:08.510 --> 01:14:10.510 and 01:14:10.510 --> 01:14:12.510 . 01:14:12.510 --> 01:14:14.510 . 01:14:14.510 --> 01:14:16.510 . 01:14:16.510 --> 01:14:23.470 . 01:14:23.470 --> 01:14:25.720 . 01:14:25.720 --> 01:14:27.720 . 01:14:27.720 --> 01:14:29.720 . 01:14:29.720 --> 01:14:32.200 . 01:14:32.200 --> 01:14:34.750 . 01:14:34.750 --> 01:14:36.750 . 01:14:36.750 --> 01:14:38.750 . 01:14:38.750 --> 01:14:40.750 . 01:14:40.750 --> 01:14:42.010 . 01:14:42.010 --> 01:14:42.050 . 01:14:42.050 --> 01:14:42.550 . 01:14:42.550 --> 01:14:43.830 And you're not. 01:15:12.550 --> 01:15:20.690 My American editors will cut out the word holocaust. 01:15:20.690 --> 01:15:23.270 They will say, David, I'm sorry, you can't take that word. 01:15:23.390 --> 01:15:26.170 Well, that word now only means that you extracted holocaust. 01:15:26.610 --> 01:15:29.110 But this only started in 1970. 01:15:29.390 --> 01:15:31.230 And I think you can look in the dictionaries of etymology. 01:15:31.570 --> 01:15:32.410 You'll probably find that. 01:15:32.810 --> 01:15:34.070 Yes, the rest of your question. 01:15:36.300 --> 01:15:37.200 Question, I guess. 01:15:37.340 --> 01:15:38.820 You talked a lot about quotients. 01:15:39.300 --> 01:15:43.320 What are the views on the general, 01:15:43.320 --> 01:15:46.710 the situations, what we agree on, etc. 01:15:47.550 --> 01:15:51.580 And I'm interested in Auschwitz. 01:15:51.900 --> 01:15:53.480 Do you have a related question to that? 01:15:53.840 --> 01:15:58.780 Well, I mean, he has correctly spotted that I've devoted my entire speech to Auschwitz 01:15:58.780 --> 01:16:02.620 and the rest of the speech to any other sites or locations. 01:16:03.320 --> 01:16:05.220 And I think this is acceptable. 01:16:05.880 --> 01:16:08.640 Because after all, we are only told about Auschwitz now. 01:16:08.760 --> 01:16:11.040 Auschwitz is the capital ship of the enemy fleet. 01:16:11.680 --> 01:16:13.860 The battleship Auschwitz, which I previously referred to. 01:16:14.120 --> 01:16:15.360 And the FTA. 01:16:15.460 --> 01:16:16.840 And the film Perlman Books. 01:16:17.020 --> 01:16:18.440 And all the remembrance on television. 01:16:18.760 --> 01:16:23.040 You can see all the staff that it cast being shepherded into the ash chambers. 01:16:23.040 --> 01:16:24.640 The ash chambers are those in Auschwitz. 01:16:25.360 --> 01:16:28.220 And we were told, in fact, that that film was filmed on location in Auschwitz. 01:16:28.340 --> 01:16:30.360 But believe it or not, the ash chamber wasn't in Auschwitz. 01:16:30.660 --> 01:16:34.820 They built that scene in Hollywood for reasons that you can now define. 01:16:35.920 --> 01:16:40.560 So I felt it right to deal only with Auschwitz in secure knowledge. 01:16:40.560 --> 01:16:45.540 So if my accolades decide to fall back on the second line, 01:16:45.540 --> 01:16:49.600 that means that they have given up Auschwitz. 01:16:50.040 --> 01:16:51.820 That they do accept that they were wrong on that. 01:16:52.280 --> 01:16:53.920 And of course, if they accept that they were wrong on that, 01:16:54.000 --> 01:16:56.140 then the whole rest of the case becomes very hollow and mean. 01:16:56.600 --> 01:16:59.240 But this is purely debating tactics, if you will. 01:16:59.280 --> 01:17:04.440 I'm sure that a proper story, a proper history of the whole of Auschwitz 01:17:04.440 --> 01:17:06.040 would happen over all the other camps, too. 01:17:06.120 --> 01:17:09.920 But I'm very confident they would come out with the same results on the other camps, as well. 01:17:10.700 --> 01:17:11.620 I'm going to finish in on that. 01:17:12.080 --> 01:17:14.820 Why didn't you deal with your third point? 01:17:15.540 --> 01:17:18.300 But now, what happened to the disappeared Jews? 01:17:18.500 --> 01:17:20.340 Very good. Why didn't I deal with the third point? 01:17:20.440 --> 01:17:24.680 Remember, the three standard questions, where did the legend come from, 01:17:25.000 --> 01:17:27.480 and what happened to the Jews, and how did they stay in Iraq? 01:17:27.680 --> 01:17:29.000 What happened to the Jews? 01:17:29.760 --> 01:17:31.540 Quite rightly, like the gentleman who left, 01:17:31.700 --> 01:17:35.800 a lot of people say that many, many hundreds of thousands, 01:17:36.040 --> 01:17:38.720 if not millions of Jews vanished during World War II. 01:17:38.860 --> 01:17:39.840 They must have gone somewhere. 01:17:40.810 --> 01:17:42.970 Well, I accept this. This is a popular argument. 01:17:44.260 --> 01:17:46.280 A lot of them did die in concentration camps. 01:17:46.440 --> 01:17:49.640 As though you know the line, they died from all causes. 01:17:49.740 --> 01:17:53.340 A lot of them died outside concentration camps, from all causes. 01:17:53.440 --> 01:17:57.240 A lot of Germans died outside concentration camps, from all causes. 01:17:57.340 --> 01:17:59.840 Over 100,000 died in Dresden, from there. 01:17:59.940 --> 01:18:04.240 So a lot of those people who died in Dresden were refugees 01:18:04.340 --> 01:18:08.740 who had been evacuated from concentration camps in the east, in Silesia, 01:18:08.840 --> 01:18:10.540 which is where Auschwitz was. 01:18:10.640 --> 01:18:13.340 This is a possible statement that could have happened. 01:18:13.440 --> 01:18:16.240 I know that my German-speaking audience is, 01:18:16.440 --> 01:18:18.940 are very unhappy when I read in great detail 01:18:19.040 --> 01:18:22.440 from eyewitness accounts of the extermination, massacre, 01:18:22.540 --> 01:18:25.640 murder of Jews there in Lithuania. 01:18:25.740 --> 01:18:27.640 And last year, as I remember, 01:18:27.740 --> 01:18:33.740 my person appalled at eyewitness descriptions by German generals. 01:18:33.840 --> 01:18:36.220 And I think it's just incredible. 01:18:36.320 --> 01:18:38.920 Very good point. Why incredible, let me explain to you. 01:18:39.020 --> 01:18:41.520 These eyewitnesses who are not related to anybody 01:18:41.620 --> 01:18:44.320 in the outside world, what they've seen years later, 01:18:44.420 --> 01:18:46.520 these are, for example, a German general 01:18:46.520 --> 01:18:49.120 who has been taken prisoner by the British, 01:18:49.220 --> 01:18:51.720 and he has been locked up in an English country mansion. 01:18:51.820 --> 01:18:55.620 And then, in a subdued whisper, he talks to his fellow prisoners 01:18:55.720 --> 01:18:59.820 about the appalling things that he has seen two or three years ago, 01:18:59.920 --> 01:19:03.120 behind the lines, outside reloading. 01:19:03.220 --> 01:19:08.220 Personally, I witnessed the mass killing of thousands of Jews, 01:19:08.320 --> 01:19:11.220 including there were Jews just lining up, waiting patiently 01:19:11.320 --> 01:19:14.220 to be shot into a big Texas window. 01:19:14.320 --> 01:19:16.420 And he described this without knowing that every word 01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:18.720 that he said in a subdued whisper to his fellow prisoners 01:19:18.820 --> 01:19:21.720 was being taken down by a concealed British microphone. 01:19:21.820 --> 01:19:24.620 And the verbatim transcripts in the original German 01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:28.520 of what this man and others who were also present said, 01:19:28.620 --> 01:19:30.920 describing this scene, have just been released 01:19:31.020 --> 01:19:33.320 from the British archives two or three years ago. 01:19:33.420 --> 01:19:37.020 And they make horrible descriptions indeed. 01:19:37.120 --> 01:19:40.720 Why German eyewitnesses find more Jewish eyewitnesses? 01:19:40.820 --> 01:19:43.120 My German eyewitnesses, federal and Jewish eyewitnesses, 01:19:43.220 --> 01:19:45.120 not living just in people, I was saying, 01:19:45.120 --> 01:19:47.720 that this same German general, two years later, 01:19:47.820 --> 01:19:52.120 went in the witness box at Nuremberg and swore blindly on a stack of Bibles 01:19:52.220 --> 01:19:53.920 and said, no, he hadn't seen anything. 01:19:54.020 --> 01:19:57.020 He had been told about it by an officer he sent down the road to see it. 01:19:57.120 --> 01:19:59.620 But I tell you, the version that he relays 01:19:59.720 --> 01:20:02.320 that his friend has been imprisoned at, he says, 01:20:02.420 --> 01:20:04.720 I can see it before my mind's eye now. 01:20:04.820 --> 01:20:10.020 There was one particularly beautiful Jewish girl wearing a flame-red dress. 01:20:10.120 --> 01:20:13.420 And the people who had the machine guns were screaming taunts at him, 01:20:13.520 --> 01:20:15.020 shouting, look, here comes another German. 01:20:15.120 --> 01:20:18.020 Look how beautiful Jewish girl. Just watch this one. 01:20:18.120 --> 01:20:21.020 That man has not been told it by somebody who he sent down the road. 01:20:21.120 --> 01:20:22.020 He's seen himself. 01:20:22.120 --> 01:20:25.020 But it's interesting that when he came to give evidence to the witness box, 01:20:25.120 --> 01:20:28.020 suddenly he transplanted himself an ounce away. 01:20:28.120 --> 01:20:31.020 But I believe you have to be selective. 01:20:31.120 --> 01:20:34.020 And perhaps I'm being totally unreasonably selective 01:20:34.120 --> 01:20:37.020 in which witnesses I believe and which I don't. 01:20:37.120 --> 01:20:39.020 And in this particular case, I say to myself, 01:20:39.120 --> 01:20:41.020 this German general is probably telling the truth 01:20:41.120 --> 01:20:46.110 because he is describing something that could possibly be held against him. 01:20:46.210 --> 01:20:48.110 But as the other witnesses are describing something 01:20:48.210 --> 01:20:50.110 which will operate and mitigate him, 01:20:50.210 --> 01:20:52.110 do you accept those type of evidence? 01:20:52.210 --> 01:20:53.400 No. 01:20:53.500 --> 01:20:59.450 All right. 01:20:59.550 --> 01:21:01.770 Well, the last time you were here, 01:21:01.870 --> 01:21:03.770 I wrote about some points on it. 01:21:03.870 --> 01:21:07.770 And you've invited me to, through Mr. McDonald, to have debate with you. 01:21:07.870 --> 01:21:09.770 So may I presume it would take a few extra minutes? 01:21:09.870 --> 01:21:10.770 No. 01:21:10.870 --> 01:21:12.770 Now, which gentleman wants to make a point? 01:21:12.870 --> 01:21:13.770 I don't. 01:21:13.870 --> 01:21:14.770 I don't. 01:21:14.870 --> 01:21:15.770 I don't. 01:21:15.870 --> 01:21:16.770 I don't. 01:21:16.870 --> 01:21:17.770 I don't. 01:21:17.870 --> 01:21:18.770 I don't. 01:21:18.870 --> 01:21:34.200 I don't. 01:21:34.300 --> 01:21:35.200 I don't. 01:21:35.200 --> 01:21:37.030 I don't. 01:21:37.130 --> 01:21:38.030 Thank you, Bureau. 01:21:38.130 --> 01:21:38.990 Thank you. 01:21:39.130 --> 01:21:39.990 You have my name. 01:21:40.130 --> 01:21:41.990 I was born and brought up in Ottawa. 01:21:42.090 --> 01:21:43.990 I am a member of the Barr to. 01:21:44.090 --> 01:21:46.990 As a lawyer, I take aim because I'm 갖고 your comment 01:21:47.090 --> 01:21:50.990 that the officers are more honest than lawyers. 01:21:51.090 --> 01:21:52.990 I know something from lawyers. 01:21:53.090 --> 01:21:59.180 I joined the Army after my father was a barge in an outbreak of war. 01:21:59.280 --> 01:22:02.180 And I served six years in the Canadian army. 01:22:02.280 --> 01:22:05.470 I arrived in England in 1940. 01:22:05.570 --> 01:22:06.470 I At this time, 01:22:06.610 --> 01:22:12.200 Mr. Irving made an explosion where I got my first fire 01:22:12.200 --> 01:22:15.800 and there's a deal of thousands of innocent women and children 01:22:15.800 --> 01:22:16.520 getting killed. 01:22:18.220 --> 01:22:21.200 Then, the damn situation took place. 01:22:22.000 --> 01:22:23.160 I was a staff officer. 01:22:23.400 --> 01:22:24.180 I came in as the army. 01:22:24.400 --> 01:22:26.060 I was a lieutenant colonel. 01:22:26.080 --> 01:22:29.060 And I was ordered at the OMP plus an agent of dispatch. 01:22:29.120 --> 01:22:31.900 And I don't make those comments to impress you. 01:22:32.280 --> 01:22:34.040 I just want to establish my credibility. 01:22:35.300 --> 01:22:38.060 Now, the things are not the way. 01:22:38.240 --> 01:22:42.080 There are two basic things in law. 01:22:42.660 --> 01:22:44.420 One is hearsay evidence. 01:22:45.080 --> 01:22:48.580 Now, Mr. Irving says that I actually can't listen to people. 01:22:49.000 --> 01:22:54.420 In law, in court, the only kind of evidence that certain acceptance is acceptable 01:22:54.420 --> 01:22:59.240 is direct evidence, the evidence of people who were there and saw these things. 01:23:00.520 --> 01:23:06.160 And secondly, in law, if you kill one person or you kill ten people, 01:23:06.160 --> 01:23:08.420 the punishment is exactly the same. 01:23:08.420 --> 01:23:13.060 In other words, if you say, I didn't kill ten people, I only killed one, 01:23:13.060 --> 01:23:16.660 you won't get any leniency under a British or Canadian law. 01:23:16.660 --> 01:23:21.270 Mr. Irving has come forward, I'm astounded with the theory, 01:23:21.270 --> 01:23:26.230 in fact, in outskirts, just because the figure wasn't three major, 01:23:26.230 --> 01:23:32.710 it was only 750,000, that this justifies the killing of innocent men and women and children. 01:23:32.710 --> 01:23:35.110 This is the most specious type of reasoning. 01:23:35.110 --> 01:23:37.110 Now, he's very clear in the way he puts it. 01:23:37.110 --> 01:23:38.710 You know, we admit it. 01:23:38.710 --> 01:23:42.740 Now, I just want to tell you that let's trace Mr. Irving's history. 01:23:42.740 --> 01:23:47.430 Three years ago, he denied the Holocaust every testimony. 01:23:47.430 --> 01:23:50.710 Then, he went to Canada and he gave evidence at the Zuma case, 01:23:50.710 --> 01:23:55.510 and then he said, well, it might have been there, but it wasn't anywhere near. 01:23:55.510 --> 01:24:00.390 Tonight, he sits here, and he admits that thousands of people were destroyed on the Holocaust. 01:24:00.390 --> 01:24:03.990 Now, I wanted to find a Holocaust topic different from Mr. Irving's. 01:24:03.990 --> 01:24:09.030 The Holocaust work came from a Spanish author 30 years ago who wrote a book, 01:24:09.030 --> 01:24:12.870 called The Four Orphans of the Apocalypse. 01:24:12.870 --> 01:24:19.910 It was a book that was going to prophesy a time in history where the whole world could be destroyed, 01:24:19.910 --> 01:24:22.470 and that's where the word Holocaust came from. 01:24:22.470 --> 01:24:25.110 Holocaust applied to the whole world. 01:24:25.110 --> 01:24:29.860 Now, let's take a look at what happened during the Second World War, 01:24:29.860 --> 01:24:36.540 and I'm not talking, I have no hatred in my heart against the journey people. 01:24:36.540 --> 01:24:39.420 I have a great deal of anger. 01:24:39.580 --> 01:24:42.940 I have a great deal of anger against the Nazi movement and some of the German people. 01:24:42.940 --> 01:24:46.620 Some of the German people are so perpetrated in England. 01:24:46.620 --> 01:24:49.160 Now, let me give you an example. 01:24:49.160 --> 01:24:53.050 We arrived, the Viet situation took place. 01:24:53.050 --> 01:25:01.770 A month after Viet, there's 350, there's 35,000 Canadian prisoners taken prisoner at Viet. 01:25:01.770 --> 01:25:05.050 One month later, they were all placed in shacks, 01:25:05.050 --> 01:25:08.090 hand and foot for one month because of the Viet situation. 01:25:08.090 --> 01:25:10.010 Now, I'm taking it to the Indian history. 01:25:10.010 --> 01:25:13.210 Now, the second thing that happened was we arrived in France. 01:25:13.210 --> 01:25:15.610 We're going through a place called Rouen. 01:25:15.610 --> 01:25:17.930 Rouen is a town in southern France. 01:25:17.930 --> 01:25:24.500 I just arrived, I was in the jeep that turned into the police station in Rouen one lovely early one morning. 01:25:24.500 --> 01:25:29.220 Lined up on both sides of the walkway were 100 dead Frenchmen, 01:25:29.220 --> 01:25:34.180 50 on each side, boys, 14, and men up to 80. 01:25:34.180 --> 01:25:38.420 They had just been left the day before, they were shot as hostages. 01:25:38.420 --> 01:25:40.310 And this is recorded in history. 01:25:40.310 --> 01:25:42.310 In the diaries of our actor. 01:25:42.310 --> 01:25:44.310 I'm not giving you facts or figures. 01:25:44.310 --> 01:25:46.310 Now, I'm talking about Rouen. 01:25:46.310 --> 01:25:52.310 Now, I see Mr. MacDonald standing up. 01:25:52.310 --> 01:25:58.310 Now, let me tell you about Mr. MacDonald and the reason why you had difficulties getting this halt. 01:25:58.310 --> 01:26:00.310 You talk about free speech. 01:26:00.310 --> 01:26:04.310 Now, first of all, Mr. MacDonald has been... 01:26:04.310 --> 01:26:06.310 The Ottawa Citizen had given a full history of him, 01:26:06.310 --> 01:26:08.310 and he has classified the Ottawa Citizen 01:26:08.310 --> 01:26:10.310 as a pro-Nazi, a racist, 01:26:10.310 --> 01:26:12.310 a communist, a terrorist. 01:26:12.310 --> 01:26:14.470 OK. 01:26:14.470 --> 01:26:16.470 OK. 01:26:16.470 --> 01:26:18.730 OK. 01:26:20.730 --> 01:26:22.730 Listen, 01:26:22.730 --> 01:26:24.730 I think it's important to read out loud these gentlemen. 01:26:24.730 --> 01:26:26.730 I would say, 01:26:26.730 --> 01:26:28.730 may I please reply to three of the things 01:26:28.730 --> 01:26:30.730 you said first and I'll add another brief statement 01:26:30.730 --> 01:26:32.730 because we didn't want to 01:26:32.730 --> 01:26:34.730 imply they were not tolerant of this 01:26:34.730 --> 01:26:36.730 the basic point of view. 01:26:36.730 --> 01:26:38.730 The first point I want to say is that 01:26:38.730 --> 01:26:40.730 the court of law would... 01:26:40.730 --> 01:26:54.460 This is misguided evidence, but it would have set evidence on the right way to say, and I accept that, that a court of law, and I think you would agree with this, would have attached far more to the evidence of the forensic scientists, which is what is quite crucial now. 01:26:54.460 --> 01:27:24.440 Thank you. 01:27:24.460 --> 01:27:54.440 Thank you very much. 01:27:54.460 --> 01:28:26.560 Thank you. 01:28:26.580 --> 01:29:02.160 Thank you. 01:29:02.180 --> 01:29:27.500 Now, the last thing I want to say is that I, by accident, I was on a reconnaissance for Hezbollah Germany, and I, by accident, arrived at Bergen-Belsen, the day after its liberation. 01:29:27.820 --> 01:29:32.320 Now, I saw that on my own eyes, but the British had arrived the day before we did. 01:29:32.660 --> 01:29:34.580 And they were trying to clean the place up. 01:29:35.220 --> 01:29:40.960 I spoke to a British officer at that time, and I said, how many, they were carting away in carts from a massive ditch. 01:29:41.340 --> 01:29:44.360 He said, I estimate there are 4,000 people we have to bury. 01:29:44.760 --> 01:29:51.140 Now, I saw that, and I'm willing to take my own life as a member of the Ontario Guard and as a soldier. 01:29:51.640 --> 01:29:53.140 So, don't say that. 01:29:53.680 --> 01:29:54.920 So, don't say that. 01:29:55.160 --> 01:29:56.000 That doesn't make sense. 01:29:56.300 --> 01:29:57.460 Now, I'll stop right here. 01:29:57.460 --> 01:29:58.820 What are you doing, Mr. Ervin? 01:29:58.960 --> 01:30:01.900 How do you think that's a bad kind of ability we want for this thing? 01:30:02.660 --> 01:30:06.980 We should have the answer, at least, from the government. 01:30:08.620 --> 01:30:09.700 So, don't say that. 01:30:09.940 --> 01:30:20.520 I admire the benefit of the troops arriving at Bergen-Belsen. 01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:21.800 The parties are dead, John. 01:30:22.380 --> 01:30:24.580 There's no question in the police, they don't know that at all. 01:30:24.660 --> 01:30:28.080 The photographs that exist today, they showed them, but they're not again on the media. 01:30:29.020 --> 01:30:31.800 And there's no point in denying it, but that's not what I think of it. 01:30:31.800 --> 01:30:39.800 There were 457 inmates, and on top of that, in Bergen-Belsen, I agree, prisoners were badly undernourished by the commandant. 01:30:40.720 --> 01:30:43.960 That's not what the debate was about this evening. 01:30:43.960 --> 01:30:52.720 We were talking about the existence of gas chambers, about captors and guests, and trying to keep the discussion of that very limited focus. 01:30:52.720 --> 01:30:59.820 And the fact that there's no volunteer so far in the discussion this evening, which suggests that I am wrong on that, 01:30:59.820 --> 01:31:08.780 whether there's some reason to disbelieve the Russians or the British for creating the evidence, I think we're in no better place for the gentleman to ask a question. 01:31:08.780 --> 01:31:10.780 There's one question to do that, yes. 01:31:10.820 --> 01:31:11.820 I have a question. 01:31:11.820 --> 01:31:12.820 Okay. 01:31:12.820 --> 01:31:14.390 I have a question. 01:31:14.390 --> 01:31:16.100 Okay. 01:31:16.100 --> 01:31:17.100 We all know about Eichmann. 01:31:17.100 --> 01:31:18.100 He was the so-called Jewish expert. 01:31:18.100 --> 01:31:19.100 Isn't it true that if the Germans did win the war, that all the European Jews left in 01:31:19.100 --> 01:31:24.100 Europe would have been moved, and Jews in Palestine would be moved to the island of 01:31:24.100 --> 01:31:29.100 Madagascar, and afterwards, Eichmann would be Gau of Palestine? 01:31:29.100 --> 01:31:30.100 I don't know. 01:31:30.100 --> 01:31:31.100 I don't know. 01:31:31.100 --> 01:31:32.100 I don't know. 01:31:32.100 --> 01:31:33.100 I don't know. 01:31:33.100 --> 01:31:34.100 I don't know. 01:31:34.100 --> 01:31:35.100 I don't know. 01:31:35.100 --> 01:31:36.100 I don't know. 01:31:36.100 --> 01:31:37.100 I don't know. 01:31:37.100 --> 01:31:38.100 I don't know. 01:31:38.100 --> 01:31:39.100 I don't know. 01:31:39.100 --> 01:31:40.100 I don't know. 01:31:40.100 --> 01:31:41.100 I don't know. 01:31:41.100 --> 01:31:42.100 I don't know. 01:31:42.100 --> 01:31:43.100 I don't know. 01:31:43.100 --> 01:31:44.100 I don't know. 01:31:44.100 --> 01:31:45.100 I don't know. 01:31:45.100 --> 01:31:46.100 I don't know. 01:31:46.100 --> 01:31:47.100 I don't know. 01:31:47.100 --> 01:31:48.100 I don't know. 01:31:48.100 --> 01:31:49.100 I do know what he's talking about. 01:31:49.100 --> 01:31:50.100 What I'm just saying, the种 점은 그� pelos. 01:31:50.100 --> 01:31:51.100 We were banned to question, and I don't know what I should say about the Hicq 오� кажется 01:31:51.100 --> 01:32:09.100 黑room은 틸 sondern SAY해서 RAM force than they're not finished, or basically 01:32:09.100 --> 01:32:10.100 what am I even at? 01:32:10.100 --> 01:32:11.100 You were going to push him, didn't you? 01:32:11.100 --> 01:32:19.100 and Gribble writes in his diary that he is getting to adopt a plan whereby all the Jews are evicted from Europe. 01:32:19.100 --> 01:32:23.100 He intends to settle them in Madagascar. 01:32:23.100 --> 01:32:27.350 Well, this was the Madagascar plan, and if you look in the files from the German Admiralty, 01:32:27.350 --> 01:32:31.350 the German Foreign Office, and the SS, you'll find a lot of concrete evidence 01:32:31.350 --> 01:32:36.350 about how the Madagascar plan was actually led up through the years up to about 1942, 01:32:36.350 --> 01:32:39.350 when they finally abandoned it before the war was at one. 01:32:39.350 --> 01:32:42.350 Hitler said, you now have territories in the east between the people. 01:32:42.350 --> 01:32:46.350 He was the father of deportation ideas, of shipping the eastwards. 01:32:46.350 --> 01:32:51.350 But again, Rochelle Bolton suggests, why go into all that massive transportation program, 01:32:51.350 --> 01:32:54.350 shipping Jews thousands of miles across Europe, if they're still evicted? 01:32:54.350 --> 01:32:56.350 It doesn't make sense. 01:32:56.350 --> 01:33:00.350 So yes, the Madagascar plan was built to date by Hitler. 01:33:00.350 --> 01:33:03.350 He was the first one, I think, to tell you about the idea before him. 01:33:03.350 --> 01:33:08.350 And on the peace plan, and the peace treaty that was going to be drawn up with France, 01:33:08.350 --> 01:33:09.350 Madagascar was... 01:33:09.350 --> 01:33:13.450 That's where I feel most, or certainly all your students, 01:33:13.450 --> 01:33:18.450 and I'll make myself unpopular with what the previous gentleman described as popular public opinion, 01:33:18.450 --> 01:33:22.450 if I say that I think the Madagascar plan would have been a very useful solution 01:33:22.450 --> 01:33:28.840 for the whole of the Jewish country. 01:33:28.840 --> 01:33:32.840 If all your students had been uprooted, which was radical enough, 01:33:32.840 --> 01:33:37.970 and shipped to Madagascar, which is an island the size of Germany, a temperate island, 01:33:37.970 --> 01:33:42.000 then today, and the world, would be a happier place today. 01:33:42.000 --> 01:33:46.480 have to look at the size of the gulf crisis now and the middle east crisis in the last 40 years 01:33:47.200 --> 01:33:54.190 to see that with under the science it wasn't like it because that isn't where they saw their time 01:33:54.990 --> 01:33:59.470 but at least the jews living in madagascar couldn't be threatened by any of their neighbors 01:33:59.470 --> 01:34:02.900 i don't get a comment you want to make on that sir yes 01:34:15.340 --> 01:34:19.100 and the germans decided they didn't like this multiculturalism 01:34:23.140 --> 01:34:26.420 i'm going to try to give you a short answer which you need to understand 01:34:30.800 --> 01:34:31.040 yes 01:34:35.330 --> 01:34:39.970 but i seem to recall reading some years ago a lot less a report by the dog 01:34:48.640 --> 01:34:54.000 a total of 34 000 people sometime in september of 1942 have been successfully 01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:57.360 done away with by gases by institutions 01:35:05.520 --> 01:35:08.000 not seen a pretty good work and certainly not in the jungle 01:35:09.870 --> 01:35:10.830 and that would be very interesting 01:35:18.670 --> 01:35:18.830 uh 01:35:18.830 --> 01:35:21.710 jewish success to be done away with in our stress 01:35:22.270 --> 01:35:25.710 are you confusing that with a measure that was sent by uh 01:35:25.710 --> 01:35:29.070 harold gold defensive weather at the right transport ministry 01:35:30.670 --> 01:35:32.110 five thousand jews a day 01:35:33.630 --> 01:35:34.030 children 01:35:35.550 --> 01:35:49.250 um 01:35:49.250 --> 01:35:50.610 yeah 01:35:50.610 --> 01:35:54.370 what other mvs tried to prevent you from speaking here 01:35:54.930 --> 01:36:00.770 right um the campaign that was conducted against my speed driver in canada 01:36:00.770 --> 01:36:06.050 and general in order to keep her i know too early of the facts that margaret mitchell who's a member 01:36:06.130 --> 01:36:11.010 parliament for bank release written letter to the wall here putting pressure on the board here 01:36:11.650 --> 01:36:13.490 the plea with the council of contractors 01:36:24.930 --> 01:36:29.010 six ottawa district members of parliament visited the 01:36:29.010 --> 01:36:33.010 welcoming board of the congress center and put pressure on them i didn't know the names 01:36:33.010 --> 01:36:38.290 i'm not supporting what the indian jewish news itself probably announced a few days ago they 01:36:38.290 --> 01:36:44.210 also said that they put pressure on the vancouver television station which passed uh for an interview 01:36:44.850 --> 01:36:48.050 and they were related to the part of the vancouver television station 01:36:50.530 --> 01:36:53.810 and as the indian jewish news said the television station 01:37:00.530 --> 01:37:03.730 populated to incite racial violence etc 01:37:04.930 --> 01:37:15.570 malicious uh information calculated before the racial discontent it's also a criminal 01:37:15.570 --> 01:37:19.730 offense to spread false news for example the Canadian newspapers and the Canadian 01:37:20.930 --> 01:37:25.330 congress has been repeatedly describing me as a self-described fascist and i challenge them to 01:37:25.330 --> 01:37:29.570 say whether the last 30 years i've ever seen described myself but i'm not going to get into 01:37:29.570 --> 01:37:34.530 that kind of mouth-swinging masher i could even walk my baton sprays and never get into a pissing 01:37:34.930 --> 01:37:36.930 skunk 01:38:18.700 --> 01:38:22.460 exposed from the east souls from east prussia 01:38:24.780 --> 01:38:30.140 is that documented 01:38:30.140 --> 01:38:32.140 of the jewish people from east prussia 01:38:32.140 --> 01:38:36.140 and what i call the east german territories 01:38:38.140 --> 01:38:42.540 uh in fact i've written a book now on the organized territories and for this reason i've 01:38:42.540 --> 01:38:44.140 been visited 01:38:44.140 --> 01:38:46.140 head confluences off of the 01:38:46.140 --> 01:38:57.800 in about 12 million germans from the same territories uh two and a half million germans 01:38:57.800 --> 01:39:08.720 and others of course all the refugees including american prisoners as well who were in the 01:39:08.720 --> 01:39:10.720 saraxanちょっと 01:39:10.720 --> 01:39:12.720 international 01:39:12.720 --> 01:39:14.720 um 01:39:16.720 --> 01:39:25.720 many of them died, they were either sheathed down to death by a red lion, or they died during the frozen nights, 01:39:25.720 --> 01:39:31.720 and the Falling Death March continued after the death, long after the war, until the fall of 1946. 01:39:31.720 --> 01:39:36.720 This is one of the little-known crimes, which until recently wasn't even mentioned in the German school books, 01:39:36.720 --> 01:39:41.720 because the writing of history is very much a corroborative of the fictitious. Yes, sir? 01:39:41.720 --> 01:39:48.230 Have you done any research to shed some light, if any, 01:39:48.230 --> 01:39:55.230 at the relationship between the dramatization of the Jewish suffering in Europe and the establishment of the State of Israel? 01:39:55.230 --> 01:40:03.560 The dramatization of Jewish suffering in Europe and the establishment of the State of Israel? 01:40:03.560 --> 01:40:11.560 Well, I'm sure there is a vague link, because we are all so overburdened with the feeling of guilt for all of us, 01:40:11.560 --> 01:40:14.560 whether German or not, in that we're guilty in that part of the world, 01:40:14.560 --> 01:40:15.560 and that's why it's so important to us. 01:40:15.560 --> 01:40:18.560 I'm sure that we are all so overburdened with the feeling of guilt for all of us, 01:40:18.560 --> 01:40:19.560 and that's why it's so important to us. 01:40:19.560 --> 01:40:23.560 This is the argument now, not only in France's, but also the German, but even in Germany's, of course, and the French, 01:40:23.560 --> 01:40:28.690 but in the French, but also the Norwegians, and the Danish, and anyone in harmony in Europe at the time, 01:40:28.690 --> 01:40:34.690 who is responsible for the decision making, and therefore we ought to have a more community of help and safety, 01:40:34.690 --> 01:40:40.690 I'm sure this is all part of the thing, but I really do want to get involved in discussing these political implications of it, 01:40:40.690 --> 01:40:44.780 because, as I've already said, this is a criminal offense, 01:40:44.780 --> 01:40:45.780 but it's really not a criminal offense. 01:40:45.780 --> 01:40:53.510 to discuss certain things in a certain way that I wouldn't come back to answer again. 01:40:53.510 --> 01:40:58.510 I think I was, uh, I have a friend who brought a copy of My Cup. 01:40:58.510 --> 01:41:03.510 No, no, no, I'm not trying to do that. 01:41:03.510 --> 01:41:07.510 I'm just saying, like, I was just looking at it and it, you know, it says, um, 01:41:07.510 --> 01:41:13.510 it says about the Jews that they're a parasite and, um, I was just examining it. 01:41:13.510 --> 01:41:15.510 I'm not saying I've read this. 01:41:15.510 --> 01:41:18.510 But I wanted to ask you, have you read My Cup? 01:41:18.510 --> 01:41:21.700 Have you read My Cup? 01:41:21.700 --> 01:41:25.700 And does Hitler address the Jewish question in My Cup? 01:41:25.700 --> 01:41:32.700 And does he call them parasites and, uh, give a scathing, um, you know, thing about them? 01:41:32.700 --> 01:41:36.700 Oh, it is. I think that you'll find that he makes a number of amnesia remarks in My Cup, 01:41:36.700 --> 01:41:38.700 and I'm sure he doesn't surprise us. 01:41:38.700 --> 01:41:41.700 Except that I don't think that My Cup is such an important insight 01:41:41.700 --> 01:41:44.700 because I was thinking that some of the other writings, uh, 01:41:44.700 --> 01:41:45.700 that he's in fact writing about, 01:41:45.700 --> 01:41:48.700 and what he's brought out of it in the second book, 01:41:48.700 --> 01:41:50.700 which is not an important, um, document. 01:41:50.700 --> 01:41:53.900 But I'll say for certain he wrote about it in the second book. 01:41:53.900 --> 01:41:55.900 Uh, whereas My Cup is, uh, 01:41:55.900 --> 01:41:59.900 partly regurgitated, partly put together by his fellow prisoners in Lansbury Prison, 01:41:59.900 --> 01:42:02.900 and I'm not quite sure what's really out of it and what isn't. 01:42:02.900 --> 01:42:05.990 So it isn't just a rock bottom, uh, solid source, 01:42:05.990 --> 01:42:07.990 whether it's something that's in a TV. 01:42:07.990 --> 01:42:11.380 But I read a number of nasty remarks about the Jews in My Cup, 01:42:11.380 --> 01:42:13.380 which is one very good reason to say that. 01:42:13.380 --> 01:42:15.380 Uh, but on the other hand, it doesn't say, 01:42:15.380 --> 01:42:17.380 I'm going to put them all in gas chambers. 01:42:17.380 --> 01:42:22.750 So it's probably relevant for an analysis of the whole book. 01:42:22.750 --> 01:42:23.750 Yes? 01:42:23.750 --> 01:42:25.750 Have you seen, uh, great schedules, 01:42:25.750 --> 01:42:28.750 five sectors, the choice of oil shipments, 01:42:28.750 --> 01:42:33.360 oil, oil pipeline movements, and things like that? 01:42:33.360 --> 01:42:36.360 I've seen train schedules, oil pipeline movements, 01:42:36.360 --> 01:42:38.360 shipments of all kinds of people and so on. 01:42:38.360 --> 01:42:42.320 I've seen people doing ingenious calculations based on 01:42:42.320 --> 01:42:47.320 and without the cardinal evidence you're looking for. 01:42:47.320 --> 01:42:51.320 I think it's very, very dangerous to try and extrapolate 01:42:51.320 --> 01:42:54.320 as well, like people say, several tons of cyclone, 01:42:54.320 --> 01:42:56.320 really cyanide pellets were sent to Mars, 01:42:56.320 --> 01:42:58.320 and therefore they were used for gas in Jews, 01:42:58.320 --> 01:43:00.320 whereas you can't do that. 01:43:00.320 --> 01:43:03.320 It's, uh, it's an irresponsible use of evidence. 01:43:03.320 --> 01:43:06.640 And, uh, I know that opinions in the areas of what is responsible 01:43:06.640 --> 01:43:08.640 and what is irresponsible use of evidence, 01:43:08.640 --> 01:43:11.640 but I think that that kind of thing is irresponsible use of evidence, 01:43:11.640 --> 01:43:13.640 particularly in the light of the new evidence we have. 01:43:13.640 --> 01:43:16.640 Like the, uh, decrypted, deciphered, 01:43:16.640 --> 01:43:19.640 um, daily reports of the commandant person 01:43:19.640 --> 01:43:21.640 as far as the secure evidence you can get. 01:43:21.640 --> 01:43:23.640 Those reports, by the way, say that most of the people 01:43:23.640 --> 01:43:25.640 have died of disease from the executions 01:43:25.640 --> 01:43:27.640 only by fire and squirt of mining. 01:43:27.640 --> 01:43:29.640 And I've seen that there's been a mission 01:43:29.640 --> 01:43:31.640 that has been put in labor of phasing 01:43:31.640 --> 01:43:33.640 where they were sent in one of the highest codes 01:43:33.640 --> 01:43:34.640 that they've ever had in Germany. 01:43:34.640 --> 01:43:35.640 I think we'll take a few more questions, 01:43:35.640 --> 01:43:37.640 and then you'll find it out yourself. 01:43:37.640 --> 01:43:41.020 Are you familiar with... 01:43:41.020 --> 01:43:46.890 Yes, thank you, Mr. Irving. 01:43:46.890 --> 01:43:49.920 Um, are you, are you familiar with, 01:43:49.920 --> 01:43:52.620 are you familiar with Arthur Butz? 01:43:52.620 --> 01:43:53.620 The author? 01:43:53.620 --> 01:43:55.850 Uh, Arthur Butz wrote a book 01:43:55.850 --> 01:43:56.850 several years ago called 01:43:56.850 --> 01:43:57.850 The Hoops of the Twentieth Century. 01:43:57.850 --> 01:43:59.850 That was published in 1977, I know that. 01:43:59.850 --> 01:44:02.850 But it had to be misfortune, or I had the misfortune 01:44:02.850 --> 01:44:04.850 that his book was published in the same fund as my, 01:44:04.850 --> 01:44:05.850 I don't think, the biography, 01:44:05.850 --> 01:44:07.850 so that malicious newspapers 01:44:07.850 --> 01:44:09.850 would use the two books side by side. 01:44:09.850 --> 01:44:10.850 But I've never read his book now. 01:44:10.850 --> 01:44:18.030 He has the advantage that I have 01:44:18.030 --> 01:44:22.030 that neither of us has ever learned history academically. 01:44:22.030 --> 01:44:25.440 In fact, the only examination I got there at the school 01:44:25.440 --> 01:44:26.440 was history. 01:44:26.440 --> 01:44:28.440 I mean, I've never, I've never qualified 01:44:28.440 --> 01:44:29.440 for any sort of research. 01:44:29.440 --> 01:44:30.440 And I'm sure the rest of us, 01:44:30.440 --> 01:44:32.440 he was, I think, an engineer, 01:44:32.440 --> 01:44:33.440 an engineering professor 01:44:33.440 --> 01:44:35.440 at some university in the Midwest. 01:44:35.440 --> 01:44:37.440 And it is useful to approach 01:44:37.440 --> 01:44:39.440 this kind of historical problem 01:44:39.440 --> 01:44:42.760 with a historically untrammeled mind, 01:44:42.760 --> 01:44:43.760 the mind of an engineer, 01:44:43.760 --> 01:44:46.760 which is as, as a habit of simplifying things, 01:44:46.760 --> 01:44:48.760 and you want to simplify the approach to this. 01:44:48.760 --> 01:44:50.760 And I'm sure that Butz, 01:44:50.760 --> 01:44:52.760 whatever his, uh, his drawbacks, 01:44:52.760 --> 01:44:54.760 attacked the controversy 01:44:54.760 --> 01:44:56.760 with the simple mind of an engineer. 01:44:56.760 --> 01:44:58.760 But I, I think probably he presented his book 01:44:58.760 --> 01:45:00.760 without the kind of apparatus 01:45:00.760 --> 01:45:01.760 that he would like to see in them 01:45:01.760 --> 01:45:03.760 in the work that he started on the course. 01:45:03.760 --> 01:45:07.390 And I'll try to back off one more minute. 01:45:07.390 --> 01:45:40.550 Yeah. 01:45:40.550 --> 01:45:42.550 Were the Jews heard it to be camps, 01:45:42.550 --> 01:45:44.550 the so-called death camps, 01:45:44.550 --> 01:45:47.550 because they were manipulating the German economy 01:45:47.550 --> 01:45:48.550 as they are now? 01:45:48.550 --> 01:45:49.550 Right. 01:45:49.550 --> 01:45:50.550 They were Jews working with dead parents 01:45:50.550 --> 01:45:51.550 in the kind of ways that they used 01:45:51.550 --> 01:45:52.550 to make money. 01:45:52.550 --> 01:45:53.580 I'm sure they did that. 01:45:53.580 --> 01:45:55.580 This was the path of a Nazi regime. 01:45:55.580 --> 01:45:57.580 But this was part of a Nazi propaganda story 01:45:57.580 --> 01:45:59.580 that the Jews were behind all the evils 01:45:59.580 --> 01:46:01.580 and economic burdens and misfortunes. 01:46:01.580 --> 01:46:03.580 Since the end of the First World War. 01:46:03.580 --> 01:46:05.580 But, uh, you could possibly use that 01:46:05.580 --> 01:46:06.580 as a Nazi justification 01:46:06.580 --> 01:46:08.580 to put the Jews in camps. 01:46:08.580 --> 01:46:10.740 But you couldn't use it as a justification 01:46:10.740 --> 01:46:12.740 for putting 100% of the Jews in camps. 01:46:12.740 --> 01:46:21.300 And the real one, of course, 01:46:21.300 --> 01:46:22.300 then, one of the millions of Jews 01:46:22.300 --> 01:46:23.300 who are assigned now, 01:46:23.300 --> 01:46:24.300 I think, well, 01:46:24.300 --> 01:46:33.850 my only comment on that, 01:46:33.850 --> 01:46:34.850 I don't want to get dragged 01:46:34.850 --> 01:46:35.850 into that particular debate, 01:46:35.850 --> 01:46:36.850 but my only comment on that 01:46:36.850 --> 01:46:38.850 is to say that the rest of the world 01:46:38.850 --> 01:46:41.850 probably feels this outraged muted 01:46:41.850 --> 01:46:43.850 by the, by the belief 01:46:43.850 --> 01:46:45.850 that, uh, the Jews have suffered so much 01:46:45.850 --> 01:46:46.850 that, uh, 01:46:46.850 --> 01:46:48.850 we have to make better exceptions for them. 01:46:48.850 --> 01:46:49.850 And, uh, 01:46:49.850 --> 01:46:51.850 this is the only relevance 01:46:51.850 --> 01:46:52.850 of the Holocaust 01:46:52.850 --> 01:46:53.850 that actually can attach it. 01:46:53.850 --> 01:46:54.850 But once again, 01:46:54.850 --> 01:46:55.850 I've reverted my concept 01:46:55.850 --> 01:46:57.850 of real crime and evil 01:46:57.850 --> 01:46:58.850 being innocent. 01:46:58.850 --> 01:46:59.850 It's either killing or innocence. 01:46:59.850 --> 01:47:00.850 And I think a lot of innocence 01:47:00.850 --> 01:47:01.850 is operating in the Middle East 01:47:01.850 --> 01:47:04.680 on both sides. 01:47:04.680 --> 01:47:05.680 Final question. 01:47:05.680 --> 01:47:06.680 Here, Paul. 01:47:06.680 --> 01:47:09.680 Now, we've all seen pictures 01:47:09.680 --> 01:47:11.680 of corpses, their flesh 01:47:11.680 --> 01:47:13.680 just hanging on their rolls 01:47:13.680 --> 01:47:14.680 and seemingly human skeletons 01:47:14.680 --> 01:47:16.680 just piled on eats. 01:47:16.680 --> 01:47:17.680 Now, if there was no 01:47:17.680 --> 01:47:18.680 Holocaust, 01:47:18.680 --> 01:47:19.680 where did those 01:47:19.680 --> 01:47:20.680 photographs come from? 01:47:20.680 --> 01:47:21.680 Well, you've given 01:47:21.680 --> 01:47:22.680 the answer yourself. 01:47:22.680 --> 01:47:23.680 And the question, 01:47:23.680 --> 01:47:24.680 the question is, 01:47:24.680 --> 01:47:25.680 we've all seen 01:47:25.680 --> 01:47:26.680 photographs of corpses, 01:47:26.680 --> 01:47:27.680 piles of corpses 01:47:27.680 --> 01:47:28.680 with the flesh just hanging 01:47:28.680 --> 01:47:29.680 on their rolls. 01:47:29.680 --> 01:47:30.680 If there was no Holocaust, 01:47:30.680 --> 01:47:31.680 where did these corpses 01:47:31.680 --> 01:47:32.680 come from? 01:47:32.680 --> 01:47:33.680 Well, the answer is 01:47:33.680 --> 01:47:34.680 the very description 01:47:34.680 --> 01:47:35.680 of the corpses 01:47:35.680 --> 01:47:36.680 shows that these were 01:47:36.680 --> 01:47:37.680 healthy Jews 01:47:37.680 --> 01:47:38.680 who had just arrived 01:47:38.680 --> 01:47:39.680 and been stripped 01:47:39.680 --> 01:47:40.680 of their clothes 01:47:40.680 --> 01:47:41.680 and put through 01:47:41.680 --> 01:47:42.680 the gas chambers. 01:47:42.680 --> 01:47:43.680 These are prisoners 01:47:43.680 --> 01:47:44.680 who have died 01:47:44.680 --> 01:47:45.680 appalling deaths 01:47:45.680 --> 01:47:46.680 of disease, 01:47:46.680 --> 01:47:47.680 particularly of typhus. 01:47:47.680 --> 01:47:48.680 They've been stripped 01:47:48.680 --> 01:47:49.680 of their underwear 01:47:49.680 --> 01:47:50.680 and have died. 01:47:50.680 --> 01:47:51.680 Typical type of victims. 01:47:51.680 --> 01:47:52.680 You can see that 01:47:52.680 --> 01:47:53.680 by looking at the photograph. 01:47:53.680 --> 01:47:54.680 So, the objective eye, 01:47:54.680 --> 01:47:55.680 in general, 01:47:55.680 --> 01:47:56.680 is crucial. 01:47:56.680 --> 01:47:57.680 If I appeal to you 01:47:57.680 --> 01:47:58.680 for anything at all, 01:47:58.680 --> 01:47:59.680 look at the controversy 01:47:59.680 --> 01:48:00.680 of the objective eye 01:48:00.680 --> 01:48:01.680 on both sides. 01:48:01.680 --> 01:48:02.680 Not adopt the traditional 01:48:02.680 --> 01:48:03.680 revisionist stand 01:48:03.680 --> 01:48:04.680 of nothing happened 01:48:04.680 --> 01:48:05.680 to the Jews 01:48:05.680 --> 01:48:06.680 and they're all 01:48:06.680 --> 01:48:07.680 a bunch of liars. 01:48:07.680 --> 01:48:08.680 Equally not adopt 01:48:08.680 --> 01:48:09.680 the Holocaust 01:48:09.680 --> 01:48:10.680 historical standard. 01:48:10.680 --> 01:48:11.680 You must believe 01:48:11.680 --> 01:48:12.680 everything that was said 01:48:12.680 --> 01:48:13.680 because anything else 01:48:13.680 --> 01:48:14.680 is fascism or racism. 01:48:14.680 --> 01:48:15.680 Some would have 01:48:15.680 --> 01:48:16.680 agreed the two extremes 01:48:16.680 --> 01:48:17.680 lies the truth 01:48:17.680 --> 01:48:18.680 but you need 01:48:18.680 --> 01:48:19.680 complete information 01:48:19.680 --> 01:48:20.680 before you are capable 01:48:20.680 --> 01:48:21.680 of forming 01:48:21.680 --> 01:48:22.680 a reasonably 01:48:22.680 --> 01:48:23.680 educated judgment. 01:48:23.680 --> 01:48:24.680 Thank you very much 01:48:24.680 --> 01:48:25.680 for coming.