WEBVTT 00:00:08.140 --> 00:00:30.140 There follows an update on the arrest and a photographic account of the trial in Vienna, Austria of the British historian David Irving, February 20th, 2006, having been charged with academic opinion offences of a kind unknown to English law or truly democratic nations. 00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:44.240 Mr Irving's expert knowledge of World War II history was acknowledged as, quote, without parallel, unquote, by Mr Justice Grey in a High Court civil action in 2000 London. 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:52.240 I was a lone litigant in this case, facing people who had poured about 10 million pounds into defending the action that I had brought. 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:58.240 If the truth was there in the archives, hidden for the last 55 years, it shouldn't have taken 10 million pounds to prove me wrong. 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:00.240 And at the end of the day, the judge was right. 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:02.240 He was rather scratching his head in his judgement. 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:08.240 The judge says, I always assumed that there was the evidence that Auschwitz had gas chambers, and I was surprised to find that there wasn't until this case came along. 00:01:08.240 --> 00:01:12.240 It wasn't documentary evidence, is what he said. He didn't say there wasn't any evidence. 00:01:12.240 --> 00:01:14.240 He said there wasn't documentary evidence. 00:01:14.240 --> 00:01:18.240 Yes, there were eyewitnesses, and he relies on half a dozen eyewitnesses, and that's not good enough for me. 00:01:18.240 --> 00:01:20.240 I'm afraid I want to see documents. 00:01:20.240 --> 00:01:29.240 If all the shootings on the Eastern Front are documented, there's no doubt that the Nazis killed millions of Jews on the Eastern Front, and we've got any number of documents on that, but nothing for the gas chambers. 00:01:29.240 --> 00:01:30.240 That worries me. 00:01:30.240 --> 00:01:34.240 How saddened are you by the state of your reputation? I mean, you went... 00:01:34.240 --> 00:01:36.240 Sad is not the word. I'm horrified. 00:01:36.240 --> 00:01:40.240 You went to court, in a sense, to salvage a reputation that you no longer had, didn't you? 00:01:40.240 --> 00:01:51.240 I had no choice. The enemies of the truth, as I call them, were conducting a mudslide, and the mudslide was building up, and it was being financed on a colossal scale around the world with the single dedicated aim of destroying David Irving. 00:01:51.240 --> 00:01:59.240 Thus, Mr Irving was invited by students to address an ancient university association in the Austrian capital. 00:01:59.240 --> 00:02:17.170 For this occasion, he chose as his subject the secret negotiations between Adolf Eichmann and the Jewish leaders in Budapest, Joel Brand and Renzo Katzner, the so-called Trucks for Jews deal, and British knowledge of the scheme from code-breaking. 00:02:17.170 --> 00:02:25.170 He has researched the topic extensively in Allied archives for both his Churchill and his Himmler biographies. 00:02:25.170 --> 00:02:29.170 Despite two earlier visits to Austria since 1989, this is his first visit to Austria. 00:02:29.170 --> 00:02:36.170 This time, whilst driving, he was stopped on a one-day visit and arrested at gunpoint. 00:02:36.170 --> 00:02:41.170 His invitation had been intercepted by illegal wiretaps. 00:02:41.170 --> 00:02:51.170 Mr Irving has been charged under Section 3G of the Verbot's Gazette, Austria's equivalent of Germany's law for the suppression of free speech. 00:02:51.170 --> 00:03:13.500 This unique law, being Israeli-drafted, provides for sentences of one to twenty years. 00:03:13.500 --> 00:03:24.940 Indeed, this law is a tool of foreign-imposed totalitarianism, for it persecutes valid expression of scholarly Western skepticism. 00:03:24.940 --> 00:03:39.940 The arrest warrant had been issued sixteen years earlier, November 8, 1989, at the written demand of the document center of the Austrian resistance, a communist front body, a largely Jewish organization. 00:03:39.940 --> 00:03:42.940 Issued the day before, as court records reveal. 00:03:43.940 --> 00:03:50.940 That is, the day before a private dinner in an Austrian restaurant at which the British historian was to give a talk. 00:03:50.940 --> 00:04:05.940 Afterwards, a young woman journalist from the communist-interest newspaper The Workers, by way of entrapment, secretly recorded Mr Irving's reply to her illegal question with his alleged illegal answer. 00:04:05.940 --> 00:04:11.940 It is now for those blasphemous ten words, uttered privately sixteen years ago, 00:04:11.940 --> 00:04:22.940 that Mr Irving now sits caged, at age sixty-seven, and possibly for ten years, to be jailed one year for each word. 00:04:22.940 --> 00:04:26.940 The British press shared the public's sense of outrage. 00:04:26.940 --> 00:04:29.940 Don't gag, David Irving. 00:04:29.940 --> 00:04:37.390 Conservative MP Anne Widdicombe wrote in the Daily Express, November 30, 2005, quote, 00:04:37.390 --> 00:04:40.390 Irving should not be in prison. 00:04:40.390 --> 00:04:42.620 The Independent was of the same opinion. 00:04:42.620 --> 00:04:47.620 It was of the same opinion when it wrote on November 29, 2005, quote, 00:04:47.620 --> 00:04:51.620 Free speech is for everyone, even David Irving, unquote. 00:04:51.620 --> 00:04:55.620 A month before the trial commenced of this British historian, 00:04:55.620 --> 00:04:59.620 and acknowledged world authority on Adolf Hitler and his era, 00:04:59.620 --> 00:05:01.620 the Times stated, quote, 00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:05.620 Irving's right to hold his opinions must be defended. 00:05:05.620 --> 00:05:30.100 Austria's action in locking up David Irving is an offense to free speech. 00:05:30.100 --> 00:05:34.300 The gallery was packed to its two hundred capacity, 00:05:34.300 --> 00:05:39.300 which included some sixty members of the international press. 00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:44.300 Soul witness for the prosecution of Irving, Christa Zirkling, 00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:47.300 sixteen years ago, and with sly ill intent, 00:05:47.300 --> 00:05:51.300 secretly recorded ten unwelcome academic words. 00:05:51.300 --> 00:05:55.460 Yet for her part, her name or photograph, 00:05:55.460 --> 00:05:58.460 she herself goes quietly unnoticed, 00:05:58.460 --> 00:06:04.460 much less investigated by a worldwide press coverage of this trial. 00:06:04.460 --> 00:06:33.580 I would sum up the trial as between, on the one hand, 00:06:33.580 --> 00:06:38.580 a brave man, an Englishman with new unorthodox ideas, 00:06:38.580 --> 00:06:42.810 not a rare type in our long history, 00:06:42.810 --> 00:06:48.000 and a judicial system exposed to a shocked opinion in Britain 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.000 as having close parallels to the inquisition 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.000 that tried Galileo. 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:59.100 Fortified by these expressions of British common sense and fair play, 00:06:59.100 --> 00:07:02.100 three companions from Britain had traveled to witness 00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:04.100 the trial of this well-known Englishman, 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:08.100 charged with what can only be called a modern form of heresy, 00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:13.100 holding and promoting opinions contrary to the prevailing orthodoxy. 00:07:13.100 --> 00:07:34.760 The Holocaust is not simply an example of genocide, 00:07:34.760 --> 00:07:39.760 but a near successful attempt on the life of God's chosen children, 00:07:39.760 --> 00:07:42.760 and thus on God himself. 00:07:42.760 --> 00:07:48.760 During his cross-examination for the Ernst-Zundel trial in 1988 in Canada, 00:07:48.760 --> 00:07:50.760 Mr. Irving had said, 00:07:50.760 --> 00:07:54.760 I didn't think there was any overall Reich policy to kill the Jews. 00:07:54.760 --> 00:07:58.760 If there was, there would not be so many millions of survivors. 00:07:58.760 --> 00:08:01.760 Believe me, I'm glad for every survivor that there was. 00:08:01.760 --> 00:08:08.340 In 1989, during a private lecture, the British historian had said, 00:08:08.340 --> 00:08:12.340 Seventy-four thousand died of natural causes in the war camps, 00:08:12.340 --> 00:08:15.340 and the rest were hidden in reception camps after the war 00:08:15.340 --> 00:08:21.100 and later taken to Palestine, where they live today with new identities. 00:08:21.100 --> 00:08:26.100 Noah Klieger, who had flown from Israel for the trial, said, 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:30.100 This is a big day for Israel and all Jews, 00:08:30.100 --> 00:08:39.410 as the Pope of Holocaust deniers has finally been brought to justice. 00:08:39.410 --> 00:08:43.410 We have come from Britain to see a freed Irving and a freed Austria 00:08:43.410 --> 00:08:46.410 from this alien totalitarian law. 00:08:46.410 --> 00:08:48.410 We do know two facts. 00:08:48.410 --> 00:08:53.410 That Zyklon B gas was the top de-lousing product used to save lives 00:08:53.410 --> 00:08:58.410 during the typhus epidemic, which at the time was rife. 00:08:58.410 --> 00:09:00.410 I cannot understand all the fuss. 00:09:00.410 --> 00:09:03.410 The obvious thing would be to exhume the bodies 00:09:03.410 --> 00:09:09.820 and determine whether they died from the typhus epidemic or from homicidal gas. 00:09:10.820 --> 00:09:12.820 A German journalist screeched back, 00:09:12.820 --> 00:09:18.820 Do you think your British flag entitles you to bring your Nazi propaganda here? 00:09:18.820 --> 00:09:23.880 For such unsubstantiated allegations, there is no prosecution. 00:09:23.880 --> 00:09:27.880 It's neither anti-Semitism nor neo-Nazism, it's common sense. 00:09:27.880 --> 00:09:32.880 During the final months of the war, Allies took command of the skies. 00:09:32.880 --> 00:09:38.880 Highways, bridges, railways, power plants, livestock, farmers in the fields were targeted. 00:09:38.880 --> 00:09:40.880 German transport was severely curtailed. 00:09:40.880 --> 00:09:44.880 Vital supplies were prevented from reaching the camps. 00:09:44.880 --> 00:09:47.880 Typhus raged through almost all camps. 00:09:47.880 --> 00:09:52.880 Inmates slowly died from starvation, lack of medicine and disease. 00:09:52.880 --> 00:09:55.880 The Holocaust is regarded as a religious event, 00:09:55.880 --> 00:10:01.040 and anyone questioning it, in whole or part, is committing blasphemy. 00:10:01.040 --> 00:10:06.040 The Hollywood version is well established, but not the historical facts. 00:10:06.040 --> 00:10:27.740 The atmosphere amongst the public was at all times during the day, 00:10:27.740 --> 00:10:29.740 and people were restrained. 00:10:29.740 --> 00:10:35.420 It was already known that Mr Irving would plead guilty at the trial. 00:10:35.420 --> 00:10:38.420 As he explained in fluent German to the court, 00:10:38.420 --> 00:10:39.420 Quote, 00:10:39.420 --> 00:10:44.450 I have questioned the Holocaust, which is a criminal offence in Austria, 00:10:44.450 --> 00:10:47.450 therefore a plea of guilty is but logical. 00:10:47.450 --> 00:10:49.450 End of quote. 00:10:49.450 --> 00:10:52.450 As part of what was clearly a plea of mitigation, 00:10:52.450 --> 00:10:57.450 the historian apologised for his crass quips about Auschwitz, 00:10:57.450 --> 00:11:00.450 such as claiming that more people died on the back seat 00:11:00.450 --> 00:11:03.450 of Senator Kennedy's car at Chappaquiddick River 00:11:03.450 --> 00:11:06.540 than died in gas chambers. 00:11:06.540 --> 00:11:09.540 The more documents are available, the more you learn, 00:11:09.540 --> 00:11:12.540 and I have learnt a lot since 1989. 00:11:12.540 --> 00:11:17.540 Mr Irving came under great pressure from Judge Peter Libertroy 00:11:17.540 --> 00:11:19.540 to recant further. 00:11:19.540 --> 00:11:23.470 Facing death at the stake, 00:11:23.470 --> 00:11:27.470 Galileo, the famous Italian scientist who proved 00:11:27.470 --> 00:11:30.470 that the earth went around the sun, 00:11:30.470 --> 00:11:33.570 as against the prevailing orthodoxy, 00:11:33.570 --> 00:11:35.790 was forced to recant, 00:11:35.790 --> 00:11:39.950 but famously uttered under his breath, 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:42.050 so it moves. 00:11:42.050 --> 00:11:47.100 But when it came to Mr Irving's writings, 00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:49.100 his books, 00:11:49.100 --> 00:11:51.100 rather than off-the-cuff remarks 00:11:51.100 --> 00:11:54.100 spoken before American audiences, 00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:59.320 the historian stuck 100% to his guns. 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:00.450 Quote, 00:12:00.450 --> 00:12:02.450 What I wrote in my books, 00:12:02.450 --> 00:12:04.450 that is all true, 00:12:04.450 --> 00:12:09.450 and I do not recant or apologise for any of it. 00:12:09.450 --> 00:12:10.640 End of quote. 00:12:10.640 --> 00:12:14.640 The battle between the defendant and the Austrian court 00:12:14.640 --> 00:12:16.640 reached its climax 00:12:16.640 --> 00:12:20.640 on the claim made by Mr Irving in his Hitler's War 00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:22.640 that Adolf Hitler, 00:12:22.640 --> 00:12:25.700 the Fuhrer, as Irving referred to him, 00:12:25.700 --> 00:12:29.700 knew absolutely nothing of the murder of six million Jews, 00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:32.700 whether by gassing or by other means. 00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:35.830 The judge asked in some amazement, 00:12:35.830 --> 00:12:37.830 How can you say that? 00:12:37.830 --> 00:12:42.830 How do you know that Hitler did not know of the Holocaust, Irving? 00:12:42.830 --> 00:12:47.830 And the acknowledged expert on World War II replied, 00:12:47.830 --> 00:12:49.830 Because, Your Honour, 00:12:49.830 --> 00:12:52.830 I, David Irving, have read every report 00:12:52.830 --> 00:12:54.830 that was passed on to Adolf Hitler 00:12:54.830 --> 00:12:57.830 between the dates of September 1939 00:12:57.830 --> 00:12:59.830 until his death in April 14, 00:12:59.830 --> 00:13:01.930 1945. 00:13:01.930 --> 00:13:04.930 And none of those many, many reports 00:13:04.930 --> 00:13:05.930 from the army, 00:13:05.930 --> 00:13:06.930 the air force, 00:13:06.930 --> 00:13:07.930 the navy, 00:13:07.930 --> 00:13:08.930 the secret police, 00:13:08.930 --> 00:13:10.930 the diplomatic corps, 00:13:10.930 --> 00:13:11.930 etc., etc., 00:13:11.930 --> 00:13:15.930 none spoke or referred to systematic, 00:13:15.930 --> 00:13:16.930 planned, 00:13:16.930 --> 00:13:17.930 willed, 00:13:17.930 --> 00:13:20.600 organised mass murder. 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.600 This remark of the British historian 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:26.630 was met with complete silence in the court 00:13:26.630 --> 00:13:29.630 and was then entered into the court record. 00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:33.820 In stark contrast, for example, 00:13:33.820 --> 00:13:35.820 with the exuberant atmosphere 00:13:35.820 --> 00:13:37.820 reigning at Ernst Zündel's trial, 00:13:37.820 --> 00:13:39.820 that prisoner of conscience 00:13:39.820 --> 00:13:41.820 enters the courtroom 00:13:41.820 --> 00:13:43.820 to public applause. 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:49.000 Let me say to you 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:52.000 that last week the Guardian newspaper 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:54.000 quoted the legal philosopher 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:57.000 Ronald Dvorkin 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:01.000 saying that the European Convention on Human Rights 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:04.000 should be used to strike down laws 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:07.540 banning Holocaust denial. 00:14:07.540 --> 00:14:11.540 This was all in yesterday's London Financial Times. 00:14:11.540 --> 00:14:13.540 I, Dr. Jakub Szaky, 00:14:13.540 --> 00:14:16.540 Deputy Director of the Muslim Institute in London, 00:14:16.540 --> 00:14:19.540 lost my post at the Institute 00:14:19.540 --> 00:14:22.540 simply because my boss, the Director, 00:14:22.540 --> 00:14:25.540 found out that I had attended the Irving trial in Vienna 00:14:25.540 --> 00:14:28.540 even though I attended in a private capacity 00:14:28.540 --> 00:14:31.540 and not as Deputy Director of the Institute. 00:14:31.540 --> 00:14:34.540 Taking an interest or any criticism 00:14:34.540 --> 00:14:36.540 called anti-Semitism 00:14:36.540 --> 00:14:38.540 means for writers and publishers 00:14:38.540 --> 00:14:39.540 and indeed anyone 00:14:39.540 --> 00:14:42.540 becoming unemployable social outcasts. 00:14:42.540 --> 00:14:46.540 Another spectator simply attending the Irving trial 00:14:46.540 --> 00:14:49.640 was attorney Dr. Herbert Schaller. 00:14:49.640 --> 00:14:53.640 Renouf had witnessed the attempts by the German judge 00:14:53.640 --> 00:14:55.640 Judge Meinertshagen 00:14:55.640 --> 00:14:58.640 who conducts the Zündel trial in Mannheim 00:14:58.640 --> 00:15:01.640 to throw Dr. Schaller off the case 00:15:01.640 --> 00:15:04.640 The judge of the Ernst Zündel trial 00:15:04.640 --> 00:15:05.640 in Mannheim, Germany 00:15:05.640 --> 00:15:08.640 declares about our defense team 00:15:08.640 --> 00:15:11.640 that the defense team acts too much 00:15:11.640 --> 00:15:14.640 on the side of the client 00:15:14.640 --> 00:15:16.640 and must be dismissed. 00:15:16.640 --> 00:15:20.640 Austria sentences Irving to three years in prison. 00:15:20.640 --> 00:15:22.640 The Irving trial 00:15:22.640 --> 00:15:25.640 in a heavily guarded Vienna court 00:15:25.640 --> 00:15:28.640 came amid a Europe-wide debate 00:15:28.640 --> 00:15:31.640 over whether Holocaust denial 00:15:31.640 --> 00:15:34.640 should be a crime. 00:15:34.640 --> 00:15:36.640 Having an idea of the misery 00:15:36.640 --> 00:15:39.640 that Mr. Irving, being only human 00:15:39.640 --> 00:15:41.640 must be suffering at this moment 00:15:41.640 --> 00:15:44.770 I decided that an Englishman 00:15:44.770 --> 00:15:47.770 would have the last word, so to say 00:15:47.770 --> 00:15:49.770 in the proceedings. 00:15:49.770 --> 00:15:51.770 So from the public gallery 00:15:51.770 --> 00:15:53.770 I called down to him below 00:15:53.770 --> 00:15:55.770 Stay strong, David. 00:15:55.770 --> 00:15:57.770 Stay strong. 00:15:57.770 --> 00:16:00.120 I saw his head jerk up 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:01.120 as he caught the words 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:04.120 whilst being escorted between the guards. 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:06.250 And an instant later 00:16:06.250 --> 00:16:08.250 I was arrested by the police 00:16:08.250 --> 00:16:09.250 in the courtroom 00:16:09.250 --> 00:16:11.250 and frog-marched out. 00:16:11.250 --> 00:16:12.250 I was let free. 00:16:12.250 --> 00:16:14.250 A team of American journalists 00:16:14.250 --> 00:16:16.250 agreed with me 00:16:16.250 --> 00:16:18.250 on the absolute need for free speech. 00:16:18.250 --> 00:16:20.500 They already knew 00:16:20.500 --> 00:16:22.500 of the Financial Times article 00:16:22.500 --> 00:16:24.500 calling for the scrapping 00:16:24.500 --> 00:16:26.500 of anti-free speech 00:16:26.500 --> 00:16:28.500 Holocaust denial laws. 00:16:28.500 --> 00:16:30.500 I think it is true to suggest 00:16:30.500 --> 00:16:32.500 that Mr. Irving was hoping 00:16:32.500 --> 00:16:34.500 for a suspended prison sentence 00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:36.500 that at the end of the court proceedings 00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:38.500 he would be effectively free 00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:41.540 to leave the court and Austria. 00:16:41.540 --> 00:16:43.540 Acting as the British historian's 00:16:43.540 --> 00:16:46.540 appointed media contact since his arrest 00:16:46.540 --> 00:16:48.540 Lady Renouf had negotiated 00:16:48.540 --> 00:16:50.540 with the BBC television programme 00:16:50.540 --> 00:16:52.540 Newsnight 00:16:52.540 --> 00:16:54.540 his business flight back to London 00:16:54.540 --> 00:16:57.540 and an interview on Jeremy Paxman's programme 00:16:57.540 --> 00:17:00.530 Newsnight. 00:17:00.530 --> 00:17:03.530 Due to his attorney Dr. Cressbach's 00:17:03.530 --> 00:17:06.530 having failed on more than one occasion 00:17:06.530 --> 00:17:08.530 to protest when Judge Libetro 00:17:08.530 --> 00:17:10.530 used inadmissible evidence 00:17:10.530 --> 00:17:12.530 quoting from speeches 00:17:12.530 --> 00:17:14.530 given by Irving and the USA 00:17:14.530 --> 00:17:16.530 where freedom of speech applies. 00:17:16.530 --> 00:17:18.850 This meant instead 00:17:18.850 --> 00:17:20.850 that it was Dr. Cressbach 00:17:20.850 --> 00:17:22.850 who gave the interview to the BBC 00:17:22.850 --> 00:17:24.850 rather than a freed historian. 00:17:24.850 --> 00:17:35.910 The Spectator, 4th March 2006 00:17:35.910 --> 00:17:38.910 High life, doing time, 00:17:38.910 --> 00:17:39.910 by Tacky. 00:17:39.910 --> 00:17:41.910 The telephone rang rather early 00:17:41.910 --> 00:17:42.910 and when I picked it up 00:17:42.910 --> 00:17:43.910 an English male voice said 00:17:43.910 --> 00:17:47.100 Hello Tacky, this is David Irving. 00:17:47.100 --> 00:17:49.100 He was ringing from the Vienna pokey 00:17:49.100 --> 00:17:50.100 just after his conviction 00:17:50.100 --> 00:17:52.100 and we had a brief chat. 00:17:52.100 --> 00:17:54.100 The irony is that now he's been jailed 00:17:54.100 --> 00:17:56.100 lots of people are rushing to defend him 00:17:56.100 --> 00:17:58.100 using the de rigueur adjectives 00:17:58.100 --> 00:18:00.100 such as odious, detestable, repugnant, 00:18:00.100 --> 00:18:02.100 repulsive and indefensible. 00:18:02.100 --> 00:18:04.100 They nevertheless endorse freedom of speech 00:18:04.100 --> 00:18:06.100 as well they should. 00:18:06.100 --> 00:18:08.100 I thought the historian Michael Burley 00:18:08.100 --> 00:18:09.100 author of the Third Reich 00:18:09.100 --> 00:18:11.100 got it just about right in the Telegraph 00:18:11.100 --> 00:18:12.100 when he wrote that 00:18:12.100 --> 00:18:14.100 in the course of 30 years 00:18:14.100 --> 00:18:16.100 Mr Irving has gone from being a respected 00:18:16.100 --> 00:18:19.100 if sensationalist military historian 00:18:19.100 --> 00:18:20.100 of the Second World War 00:18:20.100 --> 00:18:21.100 to being the sinister 00:18:21.100 --> 00:18:23.100 Pope of Holocaust denialism. 00:18:23.100 --> 00:18:25.100 I like Burley's compassion. 00:18:25.100 --> 00:18:26.100 He pointed out how Janna 00:18:26.100 --> 00:18:28.100 while gloating over Irving's fate 00:18:28.100 --> 00:18:30.100 seemed unaware of what our society 00:18:30.100 --> 00:18:31.100 will look like once we start 00:18:31.100 --> 00:18:33.100 jailing those who say things 00:18:33.100 --> 00:18:35.100 we don't like to hear or agree with. 00:18:35.100 --> 00:18:37.100 I also like Deborah Lipstadt's announcement 00:18:37.100 --> 00:18:39.100 that she was uncomfortable 00:18:39.100 --> 00:18:41.100 with the decision to jail her opponent. 00:18:41.100 --> 00:18:42.100 As Michael Burley wrote 00:18:42.100 --> 00:18:44.100 it's taboo even to broach the fact 00:18:44.100 --> 00:18:45.100 that in the 20th century 00:18:45.100 --> 00:18:46.100 Communism happened to kill 00:18:46.100 --> 00:18:48.100 many times more people than Nazism. 00:18:48.100 --> 00:18:50.100 Irving as far as I know 00:18:50.100 --> 00:18:51.100 has sought to define the scope 00:18:51.100 --> 00:18:52.100 of the Holocaust 00:18:52.100 --> 00:18:53.100 not to deny it. 00:18:53.100 --> 00:18:54.100 I have never heard him utter 00:18:54.100 --> 00:18:56.100 an anti-Semitic word 00:18:56.100 --> 00:18:57.100 but then I am an unreliable witness 00:18:57.100 --> 00:18:58.100 because I do not live 00:18:58.100 --> 00:18:59.100 in the Orwellian world 00:18:59.100 --> 00:19:01.100 in which any deviation 00:19:01.100 --> 00:19:02.100 from the received and authorized 00:19:02.100 --> 00:19:03.100 version of events 00:19:03.100 --> 00:19:05.100 as it relates to the Second World War 00:19:05.100 --> 00:19:06.100 is unacceptable 00:19:06.100 --> 00:19:08.100 and a criminal offense. 00:19:08.100 --> 00:19:10.100 The United Nations guarantees 00:19:10.100 --> 00:19:11.100 freedom of speech 00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:13.100 in Article 19 00:19:13.100 --> 00:19:15.100 of its Universal Declaration 00:19:15.100 --> 00:19:16.100 of Human Rights. 00:19:16.100 --> 00:19:18.100 Everyone has the right 00:19:18.100 --> 00:19:19.100 to freedom of opinion 00:19:19.100 --> 00:19:21.100 and expression. 00:19:21.100 --> 00:19:23.740 This right includes 00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:25.740 the freedom to hold opinions 00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:27.740 without interference 00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:29.780 and to seek 00:19:29.780 --> 00:19:31.780 receive 00:19:31.780 --> 00:19:34.780 and impart information and ideas 00:19:34.780 --> 00:19:36.780 through any media 00:19:36.780 --> 00:19:39.840 and regardless of frontiers. 00:19:39.840 --> 00:19:42.100 I believe Austria, 00:19:42.100 --> 00:19:43.100 like Germany, 00:19:43.100 --> 00:19:45.800 is a signatory. 00:19:45.800 --> 00:19:47.800 Letter to the Austrian Ambassador 00:19:47.800 --> 00:19:52.380 dated the 5th of March 2006 00:19:52.380 --> 00:19:54.410 Dear Ambassador, 00:19:54.410 --> 00:19:55.410 You will, of course, 00:19:55.410 --> 00:19:56.410 be aware 00:19:56.410 --> 00:19:58.500 of the widespread disquiet 00:19:58.500 --> 00:20:00.500 caused in this country 00:20:00.500 --> 00:20:02.500 by Austria's decision 00:20:02.500 --> 00:20:04.500 to jail the British historian 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:06.500 David Irving. 00:20:06.500 --> 00:20:09.340 For a 67 year old 00:20:09.340 --> 00:20:10.340 pensioner 00:20:10.340 --> 00:20:11.340 to receive 00:20:11.340 --> 00:20:13.590 a three year prison sentence 00:20:13.590 --> 00:20:14.590 for remarks made 00:20:14.590 --> 00:20:16.590 at a private meeting 00:20:16.590 --> 00:20:18.590 16 years earlier 00:20:18.590 --> 00:20:19.590 is to most people 00:20:19.590 --> 00:20:21.590 incomprehensible 00:20:21.590 --> 00:20:22.590 and has been 00:20:22.590 --> 00:20:24.590 understandably criticized 00:20:24.590 --> 00:20:26.590 as both savage 00:20:26.590 --> 00:20:29.740 and vindictive. 00:20:29.740 --> 00:20:30.740 No one would claim 00:20:30.740 --> 00:20:31.740 that David Irving's 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:34.290 political views are popular 00:20:34.290 --> 00:20:35.290 but in a civilized 00:20:35.290 --> 00:20:37.450 European country 00:20:37.450 --> 00:20:38.450 he should surely be allowed 00:20:38.450 --> 00:20:39.450 to express them 00:20:39.450 --> 00:20:40.640 without fear 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:45.520 of persecution. 00:20:45.520 --> 00:20:46.520 The apparent addiction 00:20:46.520 --> 00:20:47.580 to censorship 00:20:47.580 --> 00:20:48.900 and readiness 00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:49.900 to suppress 00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:50.900 a historian's right 00:20:50.900 --> 00:20:51.900 to free speech 00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:54.130 are of genuine concern 00:20:54.130 --> 00:20:55.130 to people 00:20:55.130 --> 00:20:56.350 like myself 00:20:56.350 --> 00:20:57.350 who have hitherto 00:20:57.350 --> 00:20:58.350 always admired 00:20:58.350 --> 00:20:59.700 and supported 00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:01.950 your country. 00:21:01.950 --> 00:21:02.950 I fear 00:21:02.950 --> 00:21:03.950 that this sorry episode 00:21:03.950 --> 00:21:04.950 does nothing 00:21:04.950 --> 00:21:05.950 to enhance 00:21:05.950 --> 00:21:06.950 Austria's 00:21:06.950 --> 00:21:08.950 democratic credentials. 00:21:08.950 --> 00:21:11.750 Yours respectfully, 00:21:11.750 --> 00:21:12.750 J.F. Cullis 00:21:14.230 --> 00:21:15.230 Letter in reply 00:21:15.230 --> 00:21:16.230 from the Austrian Ambassadorist 00:21:16.230 --> 00:21:18.230 Dear Mr. Cullis, 00:21:18.230 --> 00:21:20.230 According to common principles 00:21:20.230 --> 00:21:21.230 of love enshrined, 00:21:21.230 --> 00:21:22.230 for example, 00:21:22.230 --> 00:21:24.230 in the European Convention 00:21:24.230 --> 00:21:26.230 on Human Rights 00:21:26.230 --> 00:21:28.230 to which both Austria 00:21:28.230 --> 00:21:29.230 and the United Kingdom 00:21:29.230 --> 00:21:30.230 are members, 00:21:30.230 --> 00:21:32.230 freedom of opinion 00:21:32.230 --> 00:21:34.230 can be subjected 00:21:34.230 --> 00:21:36.230 to such limitations 00:21:36.230 --> 00:21:37.230 as are necessary 00:21:37.230 --> 00:21:39.230 in a democratic society 00:21:39.230 --> 00:21:40.230 in the interest 00:21:40.230 --> 00:21:41.230 of maintaining 00:21:41.230 --> 00:21:42.230 public order 00:21:42.230 --> 00:21:45.230 and of crime prevention. 00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:46.230 In the presence 00:21:46.230 --> 00:21:48.230 of the European Union 00:21:48.230 --> 00:21:49.230 the European Union 00:21:49.230 --> 00:21:50.230 has been 00:21:50.230 --> 00:21:51.230 engaged in 00:21:51.230 --> 00:21:52.230 a process of 00:21:52.230 --> 00:21:53.230 criminalisation 00:21:53.230 --> 00:21:54.230 and of 00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:55.230 criminalisation 00:21:55.230 --> 00:21:56.230 of the 00:21:56.230 --> 00:21:57.230 European Union. 00:21:57.230 --> 00:21:58.230 In the present case 00:21:58.230 --> 00:21:59.230 a reference is made 00:21:59.230 --> 00:22:00.230 to the Austrian State 00:22:00.230 --> 00:22:01.230 Treaty of 1955 00:22:01.230 --> 00:22:02.230 which obliges 00:22:02.230 --> 00:22:03.230 Austria 00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:04.230 to prevent 00:22:04.230 --> 00:22:05.230 all the Nazi activities 00:22:05.230 --> 00:22:06.230 and propaganda 00:22:06.230 --> 00:22:07.230 in Austria. 00:22:07.230 --> 00:22:08.230 This obligation 00:22:08.230 --> 00:22:09.230 corresponds 00:22:09.230 --> 00:22:10.230 by the way 00:22:10.230 --> 00:22:11.230 to broad consensus 00:22:11.230 --> 00:22:12.230 in Austria 00:22:12.230 --> 00:22:13.230 and beyond 00:22:13.230 --> 00:22:15.990 that such activities 00:22:15.990 --> 00:22:16.990 and propaganda 00:22:16.990 --> 00:22:17.990 have been applied 00:22:17.990 --> 00:22:18.990 on the 16th of March 00:22:18.990 --> 00:22:19.990 as follows. 00:22:19.990 --> 00:22:21.250 How deplorable 00:22:21.250 --> 00:22:23.250 that 60 years 00:22:23.250 --> 00:22:24.250 after the end 00:22:24.250 --> 00:22:25.250 of the Second World War 00:22:25.250 --> 00:22:26.250 Austria is still 00:22:26.250 --> 00:22:28.250 so fearful 00:22:28.250 --> 00:22:29.440 of confronting 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:30.440 its Nazi past 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:31.440 that it can only 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:32.440 do so 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:33.440 by resorting 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:34.440 to censorship 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:35.440 and imprisonment 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:36.440 instead of 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:37.440 political argument 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.440 and debate. 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:39.500 Another member 00:22:39.500 --> 00:22:40.500 of the British public 00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:41.500 shot down 00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:42.500 a further feeble 00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:43.500 argument 00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:44.500 from the Austrian 00:22:44.500 --> 00:22:45.500 Ambassadors. 00:22:45.500 --> 00:22:46.500 Shame on your 00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:47.500 government 00:22:47.500 --> 00:22:48.500 and its legal system 00:22:48.500 --> 00:22:49.500 which can only 00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:50.500 be unequivocally 00:22:50.500 --> 00:22:51.500 condemned 00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:52.500 for its totalitarian 00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:53.500 conduct. 00:22:53.500 --> 00:22:54.500 Irving is a political 00:22:54.500 --> 00:22:55.500 prisoner 00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:56.500 in a modern 00:22:56.500 --> 00:22:57.500 EU nation. 00:22:57.500 --> 00:22:58.500 It is not good enough 00:22:58.500 --> 00:22:59.500 to draw parallels 00:22:59.500 --> 00:23:00.500 with Austrian membership 00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:01.500 of the EU. 00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:02.500 I would not employ 00:23:02.500 --> 00:23:03.500 the EU as an example 00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:04.500 of democracy 00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:05.500 and freedom. 00:23:05.500 --> 00:23:06.500 You know very well 00:23:06.500 --> 00:23:07.500 that the institutions 00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:08.500 of Europe 00:23:08.500 --> 00:23:09.500 are not democratic. 00:23:09.500 --> 00:23:10.500 The EU Commission 00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:11.500 which instigates 00:23:11.500 --> 00:23:12.500 legislation 00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:13.500 is an unelected 00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:14.500 chamber. 00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:15.500 Once the laws 00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:16.500 are enacted 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:17.500 they cannot be repealed 00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:18.500 and therefore 00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:19.500 national legislatures 00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:20.500 are bound 00:23:20.500 --> 00:23:21.500 by the strictures 00:23:21.500 --> 00:23:22.500 of remote 00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:23.500 and undemocratic 00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:24.500 foundations. 00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:25.500 Summary 00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:26.500 In Austria 00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:27.500 a pensioner 00:23:27.500 --> 00:23:28.500 has been sentenced 00:23:28.500 --> 00:23:29.500 subject to appeal 00:23:29.500 --> 00:23:30.500 for a term of imprisonment 00:23:30.500 --> 00:23:31.500 in excess 00:23:31.500 --> 00:23:32.500 of what a burglar 00:23:32.500 --> 00:23:33.500 or rapist 00:23:33.500 --> 00:23:34.500 might have received. 00:23:34.500 --> 00:23:35.500 An Englishman 00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:36.500 is imprisoned 00:23:36.500 --> 00:23:37.500 for expressing 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:38.500 at a private meeting 00:23:38.500 --> 00:23:39.500 over 15 years ago 00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:40.500 what Britons 00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:41.500 are renowned for 00:23:41.500 --> 00:23:42.500 throughout the world 00:23:42.500 --> 00:23:43.500 eccentric opinions 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:44.500 and free speech. 00:23:44.500 --> 00:23:45.500 This letter 00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:46.500 by Adrian Davies 00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:47.500 Mr Irving's 00:23:47.500 --> 00:23:48.500 London barrister 00:23:48.500 --> 00:23:49.500 was published 00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:50.500 in the London Times 00:23:50.500 --> 00:23:51.500 in February 2006. 00:23:51.500 --> 00:23:52.500 The jailing 00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:53.500 in a liberal democracy 00:23:53.500 --> 00:23:54.500 of a 68 year old 00:23:54.500 --> 00:23:55.500 dissident 00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:56.500 for expressing 00:23:56.500 --> 00:23:57.500 unfashionable 00:23:57.500 --> 00:23:58.500 opinions 00:23:58.500 --> 00:23:59.500 about events 00:23:59.500 --> 00:24:00.500 that took place 00:24:00.500 --> 00:24:01.500 or not 00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:02.500 as the case may be 00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:03.500 more than 60 years ago 00:24:03.500 --> 00:24:04.500 thoroughly proves 00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:05.500 the Muslim world's 00:24:05.500 --> 00:24:06.500 point 00:24:06.500 --> 00:24:07.500 that the West's 00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:08.500 commitment 00:24:08.500 --> 00:24:09.500 to freedom 00:24:09.500 --> 00:24:10.500 of expression 00:24:10.500 --> 00:24:11.500 is a hypocritical 00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:12.500 affectation 00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:13.500 to the 00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:14.500 political 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:15.760 affectation. 00:24:15.760 --> 00:24:16.760 It's not Irving 00:24:16.760 --> 00:24:17.760 but Austria 00:24:17.760 --> 00:24:18.760 that is disgraced 00:24:18.760 --> 00:24:19.760 by this show trial. 00:24:19.760 --> 00:24:21.760 The Austrian courts 00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:22.760 have done the world 00:24:22.760 --> 00:24:23.760 a favour 00:24:23.760 --> 00:24:24.760 in exposing 00:24:24.760 --> 00:24:25.760 David Irving 00:24:25.760 --> 00:24:26.760 as a noxious 00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:27.760 opportunist 00:24:27.760 --> 00:24:28.760 and a coward. 00:24:28.760 --> 00:24:30.760 He courted disaster 00:24:30.760 --> 00:24:31.760 by revisiting 00:24:31.760 --> 00:24:32.760 a country 00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:33.760 in which he had 00:24:33.760 --> 00:24:34.760 previously been 00:24:34.760 --> 00:24:35.760 charged 00:24:35.760 --> 00:24:36.760 with a serious crime. 00:24:36.760 --> 00:24:37.760 Holocaust denial 00:24:37.760 --> 00:24:38.760 predicated 00:24:38.760 --> 00:24:40.760 on the absurd notion 00:24:40.760 --> 00:24:42.760 that after 1945 00:24:42.760 --> 00:24:43.760 the Jews 00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:44.760 systematically 00:24:44.760 --> 00:24:45.760 fabricated 00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:46.760 evidence 00:24:46.760 --> 00:24:47.760 on the ground 00:24:47.760 --> 00:24:48.760 and in archives 00:24:48.760 --> 00:24:49.760 and staged 00:24:49.760 --> 00:24:50.760 trials 00:24:50.760 --> 00:24:51.760 to convince 00:24:51.760 --> 00:24:52.760 the world 00:24:52.760 --> 00:24:53.760 that millions 00:24:53.760 --> 00:24:54.760 of Jews 00:24:54.760 --> 00:25:06.350 had been murdered 00:25:06.350 --> 00:25:07.350 by the Nazis. 00:25:07.350 --> 00:25:08.350 Having forged 00:25:08.350 --> 00:25:09.350 this evidence 00:25:09.350 --> 00:25:10.350 the Jews then 00:25:10.350 --> 00:25:11.350 ruthlessly 00:25:11.350 --> 00:25:12.350 squeezed 00:25:12.350 --> 00:25:13.350 the hapless 00:25:13.350 --> 00:25:14.350 gentles 00:25:14.350 --> 00:25:17.530 for every dollar 00:25:17.530 --> 00:25:18.530 and drop 00:25:18.530 --> 00:25:19.530 of sympathy 00:25:19.530 --> 00:25:20.530 they could. 00:25:20.530 --> 00:25:21.530 It reinforces 00:25:21.530 --> 00:25:22.530 the stereotype 00:25:22.530 --> 00:25:23.530 of Jews 00:25:23.530 --> 00:25:24.530 of powerful 00:25:24.530 --> 00:25:25.530 merciless 00:25:25.530 --> 00:25:26.530 denial 00:25:26.530 --> 00:25:27.530 as allowing 00:25:27.530 --> 00:25:28.530 a man 00:25:28.530 --> 00:25:29.530 to shout 00:25:29.530 --> 00:25:30.530 fire 00:25:30.530 --> 00:25:33.350 in a crowded 00:25:33.350 --> 00:25:34.350 theatre. 00:25:34.350 --> 00:25:35.350 I, Dr. 00:25:35.350 --> 00:25:36.350 Piers 00:25:36.350 --> 00:25:37.350 Brendan 00:25:37.350 --> 00:25:38.350 of Cambridge 00:25:38.350 --> 00:25:39.350 wrote to the Guardian 00:25:39.350 --> 00:25:40.350 on the 22nd 00:25:40.350 --> 00:25:41.580 of February 00:25:41.580 --> 00:25:42.580 2006 00:25:42.580 --> 00:25:43.580 saying 00:25:43.580 --> 00:25:44.580 although 00:25:44.580 --> 00:25:45.580 I have attacked 00:25:45.580 --> 00:25:46.580 David Irving's 00:25:46.580 --> 00:25:47.580 views 00:25:47.580 --> 00:25:48.670 and have been 00:25:48.670 --> 00:25:49.670 attacked 00:25:49.670 --> 00:25:50.670 by him 00:25:50.670 --> 00:25:51.670 in turn 00:25:51.670 --> 00:25:52.670 I deplore 00:25:52.670 --> 00:25:53.670 his imprisonment. 00:25:53.670 --> 00:25:54.670 Not only 00:25:54.670 --> 00:25:55.670 does it risk 00:25:55.670 --> 00:25:56.670 making him 00:25:56.670 --> 00:25:57.670 guilty 00:25:57.670 --> 00:25:58.670 but it 00:25:58.670 --> 00:25:59.670 also 00:25:59.670 --> 00:26:00.700 costs 00:26:00.700 --> 00:26:01.700 his life. 00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:02.700 Freedom 00:26:02.700 --> 00:26:03.700 of speech 00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:05.280 is freedom 00:26:05.280 --> 00:26:06.280 of speech. 00:26:06.280 --> 00:26:07.280 Irving 00:26:07.280 --> 00:26:08.280 has a right 00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:09.280 to an opinion. 00:26:09.280 --> 00:26:10.280 If you start 00:26:10.280 --> 00:26:11.280 imprisoning 00:26:11.280 --> 00:26:12.540 people 00:26:12.540 --> 00:26:13.540 for their 00:26:13.540 --> 00:26:14.540 thoughts 00:26:14.540 --> 00:26:15.540 then you 00:26:15.540 --> 00:26:16.760 certainly 00:26:16.760 --> 00:26:17.760 don't have 00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:18.760 any freedom 00:26:18.760 --> 00:26:20.140 of expression. 00:26:20.140 --> 00:26:21.140 By jailing 00:26:21.140 --> 00:26:22.140 people 00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:23.140 you are 00:26:23.140 --> 00:26:24.140 creating 00:26:24.140 --> 00:26:25.140 martyrs. 00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:26.140 We are 00:26:26.140 --> 00:26:27.140 in the same 00:26:27.140 --> 00:26:28.140 situation 00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:29.140 where 00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:30.140 the sun 00:26:30.140 --> 00:26:31.140 is in 00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:32.140 the midst 00:26:32.140 --> 00:26:33.140 of our 00:26:33.140 --> 00:26:34.140 system 00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:35.140 and 00:26:35.140 --> 00:26:36.140 the earth 00:26:36.140 --> 00:26:37.140 is going 00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:38.140 around. 00:26:38.140 --> 00:26:39.140 He said 00:26:39.140 --> 00:26:40.140 everybody 00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:41.140 can see 00:26:41.140 --> 00:26:42.140 it and 00:26:42.140 --> 00:26:43.140 everybody 00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:44.140 knows 00:26:44.140 --> 00:26:45.140 it that 00:26:45.140 --> 00:26:46.140 the sun 00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:47.140 is going 00:26:47.140 --> 00:26:48.140 around 00:26:48.140 --> 00:26:49.140 the earth. 00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:50.140 And then 00:26:50.140 --> 00:26:51.140 we have 00:26:51.140 --> 00:26:52.140 the Galileo 00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:53.140 face, 00:26:53.140 --> 00:26:54.140 we have 00:26:54.140 --> 00:26:55.140 the Bruno 00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:56.140 face. 00:26:56.140 --> 00:26:57.140 He said 00:26:57.140 --> 00:26:58.140 it's standing 00:26:58.140 --> 00:26:59.140 in the school 00:26:59.140 --> 00:27:00.140 books and 00:27:00.140 --> 00:27:01.140 therefore we 00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:02.140 know it and 00:27:02.140 --> 00:27:03.140 everything 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:04.140 what you 00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:05.140 can do 00:27:05.140 --> 00:27:06.140 for us 00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:07.140 and what's 00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:08.140 necessary is 00:27:08.140 --> 00:27:09.140 to have 00:27:09.140 --> 00:27:10.140 new experience, 00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:11.140 new knowledges, 00:27:11.140 --> 00:27:12.140 to be open 00:27:12.140 --> 00:27:13.140 for new 00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:14.140 knowledges and 00:27:14.140 --> 00:27:15.140 if you are 00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:16.140 not open 00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:17.140 for new 00:27:17.140 --> 00:27:18.140 knowledges 00:27:18.140 --> 00:27:19.140 you know 00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:20.140 there will 00:27:20.140 --> 00:27:21.140 be no 00:27:21.140 --> 00:27:22.140 future 00:27:22.140 --> 00:27:23.140 for us. 00:27:23.140 --> 00:27:24.140 Therefore 00:27:24.140 --> 00:27:25.140 it's necessary 00:27:25.140 --> 00:27:26.140 for everybody 00:27:26.140 --> 00:27:27.140 to fast 00:27:27.140 --> 00:27:28.140 for all 00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:29.140 the day 00:27:29.140 --> 00:27:30.140 otherwise we 00:27:30.140 --> 00:27:31.140 would believe 00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:32.140 still now 00:27:32.140 --> 00:27:33.140 that the 00:27:33.140 --> 00:27:34.140 sun is 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:35.140 going 00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:36.140 around 00:27:36.140 --> 00:27:37.140 the earth. 00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:38.140 See the 00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:39.140 Galileo 00:27:39.140 --> 00:27:40.140 face, 00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:41.140 he was 00:27:41.140 --> 00:27:42.140 the same 00:27:42.140 --> 00:27:43.140 like 00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:44.140 Irving, 00:27:44.140 --> 00:27:45.140 he was 00:27:45.140 --> 00:27:46.140 forced 00:27:46.140 --> 00:27:47.140 to say 00:27:47.140 --> 00:27:48.140 the sun 00:27:48.140 --> 00:27:49.140 is going 00:27:49.140 --> 00:27:50.140 around 00:27:50.140 --> 00:27:51.140 the earth 00:27:51.140 --> 00:27:52.140 and the 00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:53.140 same 00:27:53.140 --> 00:27:54.140 is with 00:27:54.140 --> 00:27:55.140 Irving 00:27:55.140 --> 00:27:56.140 too. 00:27:56.140 --> 00:27:57.140 I don't 00:27:57.140 --> 00:27:58.140 want to 00:27:58.140 --> 00:27:59.140 say 00:27:59.140 --> 00:28:00.140 something 00:28:00.140 --> 00:28:01.140 of this 00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:02.140 and I 00:28:02.140 --> 00:28:03.140 think it's 00:28:03.140 --> 00:28:04.140 bad for 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:05.140 our 00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:06.140 situation 00:28:06.140 --> 00:28:07.140 that we 00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:08.140 are in 00:28:08.140 --> 00:28:09.140 our law 00:28:09.140 --> 00:28:10.140 system 00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:11.140 300, 00:28:11.140 --> 00:28:12.140 400 00:28:12.140 --> 00:28:13.140 years 00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:14.140 back 00:28:14.140 --> 00:28:15.140 to the 00:28:15.140 --> 00:28:16.140 middle 00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:17.140 ages 00:28:17.140 --> 00:28:18.140 I think 00:28:18.140 --> 00:28:19.140 it's 00:28:19.140 --> 00:28:20.140 not good 00:28:20.140 --> 00:28:21.140 for us. 00:28:21.140 --> 00:28:22.140 On the 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:23.140 29th 00:28:23.140 --> 00:28:24.140 of July 00:28:24.140 --> 00:28:25.140 I wrote 00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:26.140 to the 00:28:26.140 --> 00:28:27.140 UN 00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:29.100 for 00:28:29.100 --> 00:28:30.100 over 00:28:30.100 --> 00:28:31.100 8 months. 00:28:31.100 --> 00:28:32.100 Is Amnesty 00:28:32.100 --> 00:28:33.100 International 00:28:33.100 --> 00:28:34.100 prepared 00:28:34.100 --> 00:28:35.100 to speak 00:28:35.100 --> 00:28:36.100 up on 00:28:36.100 --> 00:28:37.100 behalf 00:28:37.100 --> 00:28:38.100 of a 00:28:38.100 --> 00:28:39.100 man 00:28:39.100 --> 00:28:40.100 whose 00:28:40.100 --> 00:28:41.100 sole 00:28:41.100 --> 00:28:42.100 offence 00:28:42.100 --> 00:28:43.100 is to 00:28:43.100 --> 00:28:44.100 have 00:28:44.100 --> 00:28:45.870 expressed 00:28:45.870 --> 00:28:46.870 a 00:28:46.870 --> 00:28:47.870 controversial 00:28:47.870 --> 00:28:48.870 opinion 00:28:48.870 --> 00:28:49.870 in 00:28:49.870 --> 00:28:50.870 1989 00:28:50.870 --> 00:28:51.870 about 00:28:51.870 --> 00:28:52.870 events 00:28:52.870 --> 00:28:53.870 that took 00:28:53.870 --> 00:28:54.870 place 00:28:54.870 --> 00:28:55.870 over 00:28:55.870 --> 00:28:56.870 60 00:28:56.870 --> 00:28:58.610 years. 00:28:58.610 --> 00:28:59.610 He wrote 00:28:59.610 --> 00:29:00.610 Dear Mr. 00:29:00.610 --> 00:29:01.610 Cullis, 00:29:01.610 --> 00:29:02.610 Amnesty International's 00:29:02.610 --> 00:29:03.610 position on 00:29:03.610 --> 00:29:04.610 the issue 00:29:04.610 --> 00:29:05.610 of Holocaust 00:29:05.610 --> 00:29:06.610 denial 00:29:06.610 --> 00:29:07.610 is based 00:29:07.610 --> 00:29:08.610 on the 00:29:08.610 --> 00:29:09.610 International 00:29:09.610 --> 00:29:10.610 Covenant 00:29:10.610 --> 00:29:11.610 on Civil 00:29:11.610 --> 00:29:12.610 and Political 00:29:12.610 --> 00:29:13.610 Rights. 00:29:13.610 --> 00:29:14.610 Article 20 00:29:14.610 --> 00:29:15.610 states that 00:29:15.610 --> 00:29:16.610 any advocacy 00:29:16.610 --> 00:29:17.610 of national, 00:29:17.610 --> 00:29:18.610 racial, 00:29:18.610 --> 00:29:19.610 or religious 00:29:19.610 --> 00:29:20.610 hatred 00:29:20.610 --> 00:29:21.610 that constitutes 00:29:21.610 --> 00:29:22.610 incitement 00:29:22.610 --> 00:29:23.610 to discrimination, 00:29:23.610 --> 00:29:24.610 hostility 00:29:24.610 --> 00:29:25.610 or violence 00:29:25.610 --> 00:29:26.610 shall be 00:29:26.610 --> 00:29:27.610 used against 00:29:27.610 --> 00:29:28.610 the 00:29:28.610 --> 00:29:29.610 activist 00:29:29.610 --> 00:29:30.610 who 00:29:30.610 --> 00:29:31.610 go 00:29:31.610 --> 00:29:32.610 unprosecuted 00:29:32.610 --> 00:29:33.610 for their 00:29:33.610 --> 00:29:34.610 violent 00:29:34.610 --> 00:29:35.610 style 00:29:35.610 --> 00:29:36.610 of public 00:29:36.610 --> 00:29:37.610 order 00:29:37.610 --> 00:29:38.610 to prevent 00:29:38.610 --> 00:29:39.610 scholarly 00:29:39.610 --> 00:29:40.610 opinion 00:29:40.610 --> 00:29:41.610 crimes. 00:29:41.610 --> 00:29:42.610 Amnesty 00:29:42.610 --> 00:29:43.610 International 00:29:43.610 --> 00:29:44.610 will not 00:29:44.610 --> 00:29:45.610 adopt 00:29:45.610 --> 00:29:46.610 as prisoners 00:29:46.610 --> 00:29:47.610 of conscience 00:29:47.610 --> 00:29:48.610 people 00:29:48.610 --> 00:29:50.150 who are 00:29:50.150 --> 00:29:51.150 imprisoned 00:29:51.150 --> 00:29:52.150 for using 00:29:52.150 --> 00:29:53.150 hate speech 00:29:53.150 --> 00:29:54.150 to 00:29:54.150 --> 00:29:55.150 deliberately 00:29:55.150 --> 00:29:56.150 or recklessly 00:29:56.150 --> 00:29:57.150 incite 00:29:57.150 --> 00:29:58.150 people 00:29:58.150 --> 00:29:59.150 to 00:29:59.150 --> 00:30:00.150 commit 00:30:00.150 --> 00:30:01.150 crimes 00:30:01.150 --> 00:30:02.150 against 00:30:02.150 --> 00:30:03.150 the 00:30:03.150 --> 00:30:04.150 Holocaust 00:30:04.150 --> 00:30:05.150 in the 00:30:05.150 --> 00:30:06.150 context 00:30:06.150 --> 00:30:07.150 of the 00:30:07.150 --> 00:30:08.600 Holocaust. 00:30:08.600 --> 00:30:09.600 Article 21 00:30:09.600 --> 00:30:10.600 states that 00:30:10.600 --> 00:30:11.600 any advocacy 00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:12.600 of national, 00:30:12.600 --> 00:30:13.600 racial, 00:30:13.600 --> 00:30:14.600 or religious 00:30:14.600 --> 00:30:16.370 hatred 00:30:16.370 --> 00:30:17.370 shall be 00:30:17.370 --> 00:30:18.370 used against 00:30:18.370 --> 00:30:19.370 the 00:30:19.370 --> 00:30:20.370 Holocaust 00:30:20.370 --> 00:30:21.370 in the 00:30:21.370 --> 00:30:22.370 context 00:30:22.370 --> 00:30:23.370 of the 00:30:23.370 --> 00:30:24.370 Holocaust. 00:30:24.370 --> 00:30:25.370 Article 22 00:30:25.370 --> 00:30:26.370 states that 00:30:26.370 --> 00:30:27.370 any advocacy 00:30:27.370 --> 00:30:28.370 of national, 00:30:28.370 --> 00:30:29.370 racial, 00:30:29.370 --> 00:30:30.370 or religious 00:30:30.370 --> 00:30:31.370 hatred 00:30:31.370 --> 00:30:32.370 shall be 00:30:32.370 --> 00:30:33.370 used against 00:30:33.370 --> 00:30:34.370 the 00:30:34.370 --> 00:30:35.370 Holocaust 00:30:35.370 --> 00:30:36.370 in the 00:30:36.370 --> 00:30:37.370 context 00:30:37.370 --> 00:30:38.370 of the 00:30:38.370 --> 00:30:39.370 Holocaust. 00:30:39.370 --> 00:30:40.370 Article 23 00:30:40.370 --> 00:30:41.370 states that 00:30:41.370 --> 00:30:42.370 any advocacy 00:30:42.370 --> 00:30:43.370 of national, 00:30:43.370 --> 00:30:44.370 racial, 00:30:44.370 --> 00:30:45.370 or religious 00:30:45.370 --> 00:30:46.370 hatred 00:30:46.370 --> 00:30:48.040 shall be 00:30:48.040 --> 00:30:49.040 used against 00:30:49.040 --> 00:30:50.040 the 00:30:50.040 --> 00:30:51.040 Holocaust 00:30:51.040 --> 00:30:52.040 in the 00:30:52.040 --> 00:30:53.040 context 00:30:53.040 --> 00:30:54.040 of the 00:30:54.040 --> 00:30:55.040 Holocaust. 00:30:55.040 --> 00:30:56.200 Article 24 00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:57.200 states that 00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:59.200 any advocacy 00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:00.200 of national, 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:01.200 religious, 00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:02.200 or religious 00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:03.200 hatred 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:04.200 shall be 00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:05.200 used against 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:06.200 the 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:07.200 Holocaust. 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.200 Article 25 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:10.200 states that 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:11.200 any advocacy 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:12.200 of national, 00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:13.200 racial, 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:14.200 or religious 00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:16.420 hatred 00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:17.980 shall be 00:31:17.980 --> 00:31:18.900 used against 00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:19.420 the 00:31:19.420 --> 00:31:20.420 Holocaust. 00:31:21.780 --> 00:31:22.620 Article 26 00:31:22.620 --> 00:31:23.420 states that 00:31:23.420 --> 00:31:24.500 anyiento 00:31:24.500 --> 00:31:25.260 oty 00:31:26.140 --> 00:31:27.460 whole 00:31:27.460 --> 00:31:27.980 Holocaust 00:31:27.980 --> 00:31:28.500 shall 00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:28.540 be 00:31:28.540 --> 00:31:31.960 it has everything to do with freedom of thought and expression 00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:36.480 and the right of historians to examine and, if necessary, 00:31:36.700 --> 00:31:40.260 revise conventional interpretations of history. 00:31:42.410 --> 00:31:48.310 No one is asking Amnesty International to declare David Irving a prisoner of conscience, 00:31:48.310 --> 00:31:54.070 but only to have the moral courage to condemn the manifest injustice 00:31:54.070 --> 00:31:59.250 of an elderly man being sentenced to three years' imprisonment 00:31:59.250 --> 00:32:06.750 for expressing opinions abroad that he would be free to express in this country with complete impunity.