WEBVTT

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For you must have courage to speak the truth, David Irving stands out like a beacon, and I'm glad that its beam will be directed at us today.

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He was born in England in 1938, the son of a Royal Navy Commander.

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After completing his education at the Imperial College of Science and Technology and the

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University College in London, he spent a year working in Germany to perfect his fluency

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in that language.

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After hearing him speak in Hamilton last night, I can assure you that he speaks German like

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a native.

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In fact, much better than some natives.

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He is the author of 20 books, including The Bombing of Dresden, Hitler's War, which I

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understand is required reading in military colleges, and one of his latest books, Churchill's

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War, which should be required reading for all of you.

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It's available here, and I would advise you not to go home without it.

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Now I am privileged and honored to welcome David Irving to Toronto and to this gathering.

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I now call on David Irving to come to the podium.

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I taught myself history by the simple process of starting off in the outside mainstream

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of life as a steel worker in Germany where after a year I had achieved the dizzying heights

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of dritte Schmelze auf der Ofendür.

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And that was the third schmelze in the Siemens-Martin oven.

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I started with my first job, which was number two, and then the third was number three,

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and then number four, and then number five, and then number six, and then number five, and

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then number four, and then number six.

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And I just happened to have the good fortune there of meeting a man who had been in the air raid in Dresden.

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And that man really created my life for me, because he told me what Winston Churchill had done to Dresden on February the 13th, 1945,

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in a space of three hours, killing up to a quarter of a million civilians in one awful fire air raid,

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which I, as an Englishman in 1960, had never heard of.

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It was a gap in my memory, it was a gap in my knowledge, it was a gap, I was convinced, in the knowledge of all the English people.

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Nobody had ever heard of what we did to Dresden.

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We had heard of Hiroshima, we had heard of Auschwitz, Treblinka, until we were sick of the story.

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But nobody had ever heard of Dresden.

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So I spent three years writing the history of the air raid on Dresden,

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tracking down all the survivors on both sides, the British, airmen, the Germans who'd been on the ground,

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and my book, The Destruction of Dresden, Der Untergang Dresdens, was eventually a bestseller.

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It still sells around the world, completely unamended, I've not had to change anything in it.

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And it became an instant bestseller.

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And so I found Michael.

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I took the decision to become a writer at that point.

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And after that, as I occasionally say, I wrote a book, and I had a child each year.

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Every year I had a new book and a new daughter and a new book and a new daughter and a new book and a new daughter,

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four times, until I completely ran out of steam and nowadays I just write books.

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I mentioned this gap in our knowledge.

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There are great gaps in our knowledge for which the historians are to blame.

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And if I become any kind of ologist at all,

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all i've become a gapologist i can recognize gaps now at a distance of several hundred yards

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this comes from having gone into many archives around the world if you go only the one archive

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you go into the british archives outside london or you go just into the national archives in

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washington or the public archives of canada in in wellington street in ottawa then you're you're

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not going to recognize the gaps because the government archivists do not leave a gap on

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the shelves where files have once been but have been removed or weeded out as they say in the

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official jargon you can only recognize the gaps in the official versions of events if you've been

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in a lot of other archives and then you get a kind of gut feeling that there's something missing

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something you can't quite put your finger on something doesn't quite doesn't quite ring true

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i can give you one example straight away it comes in volume two of my church biography the second

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and last volume which concerns the history of pearl harbor and they're going to be looking at

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pearl harbor a bit later on today because it is a vitally important story quite simply every expert

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who's ever written or

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or studied the story of pearl harbor knows that there are two vitally important areas of

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information the one concerns the intercepted japanese code messages we british and americans

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were reading the top secret japanese code messages at various levels and i emphasize the word various

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levels because the question now in our minds is at what level were the british reading these messages

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we know what level the americans are reading them at because the americans have released

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all their files to the national archives millions of pages of the japanese intercepted

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diplomatic

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messages in the code called purple we were reading them with a code machine a kind of computer called

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magic so with our magic we could read the japanese purple diplomatic messages in code

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those were just the diplomatic messages but i believe that the british were reading not only

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the diplomatic messages but because of our advanced expertise in the world of code breaking

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we were reading japanese messages to a significantly higher level it's difficult

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to put your finger on the proof of this except if you recognize the fact that we british had in 1940

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3 000 codebreakers working in our code breaking operation at bletchley park and the satellite

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organizations whereas the americans had in 1940 and 1941 less than 180 codebreakers so we had

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many many times as many experts working on the problems of breaking codes we've been in the

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business for many years and we have begun breaking a certain japanese code called jn25 the japanese

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naval code number 25 in september 1939. we know that much and the question is how well were we

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breaking the code we know that much and the question is how well were we breaking the code

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and it's difficult to say because these british japanese intercepts the japanese

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messages being intercepted by the british which we called bj the black jumbos the british government

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and here's the gap the british government have not released one single page of any japanese

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intercepting the british archives so there's what you don't notice you go to the american archives

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in washington you find thousands hundreds of thousands of pages of intercepted japanese

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messages you go into the british archives and although we british have released into our british

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government archives the german

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intercepts and the intercepts of other nationalities decoded messages we have

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not released one single page of japanese intercepts not even the ones that you can

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read in washington which were intercepted and decoded by the british because we had a complete

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share with the americans of the purple messages you won't even find those released in the british

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archives the americans probably didn't realize in their weeding out process that the ones in

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their archives partly come from britain you can spot it if you look closely because of

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the british spellings of certain words and because of the classification on these documents

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most secret which is a purely british classification not an american one at all

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but in the british archives you won't find a single page it's a gap so what can we deduce from that

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well my view is that we can deduce from that that we're hiding something gaps occur in archives

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because we are hiding something in fact a good friend of mine john costello who's written on this

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kind of period but hasn't spotted the gap himself the size of the gap he wrote a letter back in 1982

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83 to the british government saying when were the japanese intercepts going to be released

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after and the british government wrote to him saying dear mr costello it would not be in the

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britain's national interest for these documents to be released in fact they're not going to be

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released until the 21st century which is going to become quite a familiar date in the course of this

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talk because we find out that all sorts of documents aren't going to be released until

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the 21st century in the british archives although we have a 30-year rule so whose interest is being

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protected when we decline to release to the british public documents relating to the war

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with japan in 1941. it's an odd situation isn't it

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well the answer it isn't people's rep it isn't people's interest who's being protected

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it's people's reputations being protected in this particular case it's the reputation of

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winston churchill who died back in 1965 but even now is a taboo subject for historians

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no one is allowed to suspect from reading british visual archives

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that back in 1941 we knew that the japanese were about to attack pearl harbor

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and didn't tell the americans this is my suspicion and i'm justified in the suspicion because

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of various clues that you find in the archives jn-25 we were beginning to read it in september 1939

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would it have provided a clue for us well four years later in 1944 the americans

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were able to read jn25 by dinner very hard work with their computers they began decoding their

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backlog of signals that they picked up back in 1940 1941 in that code and they discovered

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that on december the 4th 1941 two days before pearl harvard the japanese had transmitted a signal to the Sicily people the Japanese had sent until the 20th century almostlichtly between 930 close to returning jobs to the ting england andasan city they were growing up above thegende sporest in the democratic republic of 잘못 oil into an era that was lunged into bloodương 237 fifty four by�� deadly hau we began decoding their backlog of signals that they picked that what they said in 1940 1941 in that code and they discovered that on december the fourth 1941 two days before pearl harbor the

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The Japanese had transmitted a signal which revealed exactly in code JN25 that Pearl Harbor was going to be the target of this massive Japanese strike.

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So if we were reading JN25, then we would have got that news.

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And by we, I mean Winston Churchill, because if there's one thing on which historians are united, it's common ground between us.

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Churchill alone had complete unrestricted access to the products of the code-breaking organization.

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And he limited it to himself. He gave orders that nobody else was to see it.

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Only he was to have this Olympian view of the products of intelligence.

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And I mentioned in my earlier talk in Toronto some of the other ways in which he used this unique insight into what the enemy was up to.

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Churchill knew from reading the German codes that Hitler at no time intended really to invade Britain, that he was pure bluff.

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And of course, this doesn't suit Churchill's book at all, that anyone should know that.

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So he pretended that Hitler was planning to invade, the famous Operation Sea Lion.

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He pretended that what Hitler intended as bluff was in fact real, that at any moment Nazi paratroopers were going to land.

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And that the invasion fleet of the Nazis, which was being rattled on the other side of the English Channel against us, would in fact appear laden with Wehrmacht stormtroopers.

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He told this to Roosevelt, he told it to his own people, he broadcasted it at large, and the British people believed it then, and believe it to this day.

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These famous speeches of Winston Churchill.

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And if the British Empire and its commonwealth should last a thousand years, people will still say this was their finest hour.

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The Battle of Britain, that Churchill knew from reading Hitler's secret code messages to the Luftwaffe, the German Air Force,

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that Hitler had ordered the German Air Force never to bomb a British town or city,

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and that London was totally prohibited from attack by the German Air Force.

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Our perception now of the Second World War is of bombs and bombs and blitz and blitz.

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But the truth is that not one bomb was directed by the German Air Force against a British town until 12 months after the war began,

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and that the bombing of London only began after Churchill had deliberately set about bombing Berlin,

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because he needed Hitler to bomb London. He needed it for political reasons.

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He needed it because he wanted the peace of London.

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He needed the peace movement in Britain to come to an end.

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He needed it because he wanted the British people solidly behind him.

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He needed it because he wanted, above all, to shock the Americans into coming to the war on his side.

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And bringing the war across the Atlantic to the United States is a main theme of my talk tonight.

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How did Churchill manage to bamboozle the Americans?

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You see, the Americans weren't very keen to go to war with us.

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The American people had no great love of the British.

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In fact, there was a Gallup poll in June 1942.

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After Pearl Harbor, which showed that the American people still didn't really like the British.

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I'll read out some of the conclusions of the Gallup poll.

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The Americans felt in 1942 that there should never be closer collaboration with the British,

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and certainly not after the war.

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England's power will be gone, they predicted.

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The Americans saw the British as aristocratic, snobbish, selfish, arrogant, and cold.

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Arrogant? Well, there's nothing wrong with arrogant, but the other points are a bit negative.

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We pay a lot of money to send our children to school in England to get arrogance,

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and if they come back without the requisite arrogance, we're very displeased with the school.

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We British saw the Americans like this.

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Conceited, cocksure, gangsters, graft, and full of corruption.

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I don't suppose that remark can be taken as anti-Semitic,

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but this is certainly the way that we British saw the Americans in 1942.

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There was no love lost between them.

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In fact, there was a healthy mistrust of Mr. Churchill and the British in America.

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In fact, I went through the FBI files on Churchill,

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and I found a letter, a lot of letters written by the Americans to Mr. Churchill,

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which the FBI very kindly intercepted.

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So as to protect Churchill from the language they contained.

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There was a letter written to Churchill in June 1942 by a mother of three in California,

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who wrote as follows.

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Every time you appear on our shores, it means something very terrible for us.

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Why do you not stay at home and fight your own battles

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instead of always pulling us into them to save your rotten necks?

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You, Mr. Churchill, you are taking foul advantage of our blithering idiot of a president.

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Well, he was.

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But before I go and say some harsher things about Churchill,

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let me just be a bit kind to him and say that he was a wonderful writer and a great orator.

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And he was able, with this gift of the gab,

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to sway not only large crowds and multitudes and millions of listeners at home

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who heard his broadcasts and heard his speeches in the Houses of Parliament.

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He was a great writer as well.

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Churchill, I've often said, writing at his worst,

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was better than most of our other writers, including Salman Rushdie, writing flat out.

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Churchill would have won every literary award there was, even if he wasn't Winston Churchill.

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One of my favorite passages of writing is,

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which I quote in the next volume as,

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is this description of what life is about.

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He says,

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A man's life is similar to a walk down a long passage with closed windows to each side.

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As you reach each window, an unseen hand opens it.

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But the light that it lets in only increases by contrast the darkness at the end.

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But he was a very difficult person.

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One general writes in his private diary, which I have obtained from a university archives,

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saying that he had such strange behavior that witnesses could only describe him sometimes as infantile.

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The same general, weirdly watching him throw yet another tantrum remark to the Ministry of Economic Warfare,

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Dalton, Hugh Dalton,

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you sometimes get the feeling that a nurse should come and take him away.

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And some of his fetishes, I also write here,

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forgive me for giving you a bit of a preview of the volume which is coming along later this year,

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some of his fetishes must have had their roots in his unsettled infancy.

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He had a whimsical habit of exposing himself.

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He was a flasher.

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Just like a naughty child,

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both to his young male secretaries and to his elders and debtors,

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each man thought that he was being uniquely privileged.

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But this happened so frequently that it cannot have been fortuitous.

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No matter how high-ranking the personage, with the exception, it seems, of His Majesty,

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he was likely to find himself received by Britain's Prime Minister, Churchill,

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in a state of total nudity on one pretext or another.

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Churchill frequently received his ministers or staff officers while sitting in or stepping out of the bath.

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These blessed folk being referred to after him,

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in other words, as Mr Churchill's companions of the bath.

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He was an English noble order.

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Sorry, camera.

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He resembled, in the words of Brigadier Menes, the head of our secret service,

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a nice pink pig racked in a silk kimono.

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I had to talk to the peer when he was undressed,

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and he once in the bath mentioned that he had nothing to hide from me.

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Not even foreigners were spared this ordeal.

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On August 26, 1941, he asked the butler at Chequers, his country house,

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to bring Elliot Roosevelt, the President's son, to come and see him.

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I knocked on the door, said the President's son, and entered.

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Churchill was dictating to his mayoral secretary with a large cigar in his mouth.

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He was absolutely stark as marching up and down the room.

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Others, including your own Prime Minister, Mackenzie King,

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were treated with scarcely greater mercy.

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He would wear his white linen undergarments to receive the Prime Minister on one occasion.

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On another occasion, in May 1943, Mackenzie King wrote in his diary,

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he was really quite a picture, but looked like a boy.

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Cheeks quite pink and very fresh.

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I'm not sure which Cheeks he was referring to.

00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:26.370
Back to the blithering idiot, President Roosevelt.

00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:30.470
How did Churchill set about boondoggling him,

00:16:30.470 --> 00:16:33.470
bringing him into the war at a time when the great American public

00:16:33.470 --> 00:16:36.470
did not want to go to war on anybody's behalf?

00:16:36.470 --> 00:16:37.470
Roosevelt, we know, wanted war.

00:16:37.470 --> 00:16:40.470
Roosevelt had said in cabinet in September 1938,

00:16:40.470 --> 00:16:42.470
when one of his cabinet ministers asked him,

00:16:42.470 --> 00:16:46.470
this growing crisis in Europe, the Munich crisis, the Sudeten crisis,

00:16:46.470 --> 00:16:48.470
is this good for us in the United States or bad?

00:16:48.470 --> 00:16:50.470
And Roosevelt's answer, which I quote in my

00:16:50.470 --> 00:16:52.470
Churchill biography, you won't find it quoted anywhere else,

00:16:52.470 --> 00:16:55.470
Roosevelt said, any war in Europe is good for us Americans,

00:16:55.470 --> 00:16:59.470
because every European country has to buy its arms and ammunition from us.

00:16:59.470 --> 00:17:03.470
Already the gold of the European countries is flooding across the Atlantic towards us

00:17:03.470 --> 00:17:07.470
at a rate so fast that we don't have enough warships to carry it here.

00:17:07.470 --> 00:17:11.500
So any European war was good for the United States.

00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:14.500
So Roosevelt wanted it, but he had no pretext.

00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:17.500
And we find one thing from the Japanese intercepts,

00:17:17.500 --> 00:17:18.500
which I'll read out here,

00:17:18.500 --> 00:17:19.500
which shows,

00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:22.530
the American problem,

00:17:22.530 --> 00:17:26.530
that Hitler didn't do them the favor of provoking a war with the United States.

00:17:26.530 --> 00:17:31.530
Hitler had given the strictest instructions to avoid any kind of incident with the United States.

00:17:31.530 --> 00:17:33.530
And on November the 19th, 1941,

00:17:33.530 --> 00:17:37.530
the Japanese ambassador in Washington, as we saw, because we were reading his messages,

00:17:37.530 --> 00:17:40.530
had a private talk with an Austrian Jew called Schmidt.

00:17:40.530 --> 00:17:43.530
And this Jew called Schmidt had gone to see Felix Frankfurter,

00:17:43.530 --> 00:17:46.530
who was a fellow Austrian Jew, or Austrian emigrate,

00:17:46.530 --> 00:17:49.530
who was now the Supreme Court Justice of the United States.

00:17:49.530 --> 00:17:52.690
A very close friend and advisor of Roosevelt.

00:17:52.690 --> 00:17:55.690
And Nomura writes in his report back to Tokyo,

00:17:55.690 --> 00:17:58.980
Germany, according to what Frankfurter had said,

00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:05.040
Germany has been smart in that she has consistently done everything to prevent arousing the United States.

00:18:05.040 --> 00:18:09.040
Therefore, regardless of how much the president tries to fan the anti-German frame,

00:18:09.040 --> 00:18:12.270
he cannot make the desired headway.

00:18:12.270 --> 00:18:14.270
Germany being smart avoiding war,

00:18:14.270 --> 00:18:17.270
and President Roosevelt trying desperately to provoke it.

00:18:17.270 --> 00:18:19.330
And of course, guess who becomes the war criminal in 1941?

00:18:19.330 --> 00:18:22.650
It's not President Roosevelt.

00:18:22.650 --> 00:18:26.650
It's the Germans who are branded as the warmongers against the United States.

00:18:26.650 --> 00:18:36.240
Now, let us see the methods which Churchill used to drag the United States in.

00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:40.650
The first thing he did was to fake large numbers of documents.

00:18:40.650 --> 00:18:44.840
A very important fake document in July 1941.

00:18:44.840 --> 00:18:47.840
He faked the document. His Secret Service faked the document.

00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:51.840
Apparently a letter from the Bolivian military attache in Berlin,

00:18:51.840 --> 00:18:53.840
an unfortunate major called Elisabeth.

00:18:53.840 --> 00:18:56.840
A letter from this military attache,

00:18:56.840 --> 00:18:59.840
in which he reveals that he is conspiring with the Nazi government

00:18:59.840 --> 00:19:02.840
to bring about the overthrow of his own government in La Paz.

00:19:02.840 --> 00:19:06.880
And then they were going to invite Germany into Bolivia,

00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:09.880
from where they could then stage an invasion of the whole of South America

00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:11.880
and the rest of the United States.

00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:13.880
Well, the result was that the letter was published by Roosevelt,

00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.880
because we furnished it to Roosevelt as proof of what Hitler was up to.

00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:20.880
And this unfortunate major, Elisabeth Monti, to his great astonishment,

00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:22.880
found himself dismissed from his post, recalled,

00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.880
thrown out of the army, put in prison for a letter that he'd never written.

00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.880
In 1972, the British intelligence officer who actually faked the letter,

00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:32.880
a man called Montgomery Hyde,

00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:33.880
revealed what he had done.

00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:35.880
That he was the one who had faked the letter.

00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:39.000
And Major Belmonte, the Bolivian officer concerned,

00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.000
was still alive at that time,

00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:43.000
living in retirement with no pension,

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:46.000
because that's what's happened if you get into hot water.

00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:49.000
The Bolivian government staged a grand military parade in La Paz

00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.000
to reinstate him in the army with full honors

00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.000
and promoted him on the spot to general.

00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.290
To make up amends for what we British had done to him.

00:19:56.290 --> 00:19:58.290
And this was the kind of thing we carried on doing

00:19:58.290 --> 00:19:59.290
right through the next 12 months,

00:19:59.290 --> 00:20:00.290
even after Pearl Harbor,

00:20:00.290 --> 00:20:03.290
when the British government had the need to persuade the Americans

00:20:03.290 --> 00:20:06.290
that they were at risk of being invaded by Adolf Hitler.

00:20:06.290 --> 00:20:09.290
As though Hitler didn't have his hands full with Moscow,

00:20:09.290 --> 00:20:10.290
and Kharkov, and Stalingrad,

00:20:10.290 --> 00:20:12.290
and all the other fights on the Eastern Front.

00:20:12.290 --> 00:20:15.290
He was at the same time with his left hand going to invade the United States.

00:20:15.290 --> 00:20:18.290
And somehow, the American people had to be persuaded that this was so,

00:20:18.290 --> 00:20:21.290
that Hitler had plans to dominate South America,

00:20:21.290 --> 00:20:23.290
overthrow the Southern American regime,

00:20:23.290 --> 00:20:24.290
and Latin America,

00:20:24.290 --> 00:20:26.290
and then march northwards into the United States.

00:20:26.290 --> 00:20:28.290
And the way Churchill did it,

00:20:28.290 --> 00:20:30.290
I can tell you one particularly grisly example,

00:20:30.290 --> 00:20:33.290
and this again isn't from what some unfortunate gentleman

00:20:33.290 --> 00:20:36.290
says in the witness box at Nuremberg to defend his own skin,

00:20:36.290 --> 00:20:38.290
this is from the documents.

00:20:38.290 --> 00:20:40.290
I only work from original documents.

00:20:40.290 --> 00:20:42.290
This is from the documents of the State Department.

00:20:42.290 --> 00:20:44.420
In May 1942,

00:20:44.420 --> 00:20:46.420
the American State Department

00:20:46.420 --> 00:20:48.420
received a rather mystified telegram

00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:50.420
from its ambassador in Bogota,

00:20:50.420 --> 00:20:52.420
the capital of Colombia.

00:20:52.420 --> 00:20:54.420
The American ambassador sends a telegram to Washington saying,

00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:56.420
I've been approached by my British colleague

00:20:56.420 --> 00:20:58.420
and his secret service station chief,

00:20:58.420 --> 00:20:59.420
Louis Stagg,

00:20:59.420 --> 00:21:01.420
the head of the British secret service in Bogota,

00:21:01.420 --> 00:21:03.420
asking for technical assistance

00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:05.420
in assassinating the foreign minister here.

00:21:05.420 --> 00:21:08.250
Well, I mean, this is a bit tall, you'll think,

00:21:08.250 --> 00:21:09.250
a bit steep.

00:21:09.250 --> 00:21:11.250
The British government going around assassinating foreign ministers

00:21:11.250 --> 00:21:13.250
of countries to whom they're accredited,

00:21:13.250 --> 00:21:16.250
and the American ambassador is told immediately by Washington,

00:21:16.250 --> 00:21:17.250
don't get involved in this.

00:21:17.250 --> 00:21:19.250
The British have caused us enough trouble already

00:21:19.250 --> 00:21:20.250
with their fake documents.

00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:22.250
The FBI has got its hands full trying to investigate this.

00:21:22.250 --> 00:21:24.250
All these documents have always turned out

00:21:24.250 --> 00:21:26.250
to have been faked by the British.

00:21:26.250 --> 00:21:28.320
So we're not going to get involved now

00:21:28.320 --> 00:21:30.320
in assassinating the foreign minister of Bogota,

00:21:30.320 --> 00:21:33.320
an unfortunate gentleman called Mr. Lopez de Mesa.

00:21:33.320 --> 00:21:35.440
So I thought, I'll investigate this.

00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:37.440
And after a lot of investigation,

00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.440
I found out where Stagg was living.

00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:41.440
He's still alive in Paris, as far as I know,

00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:42.440
and I questioned him.

00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:44.440
And rather shamefacedly, he admitted that yes,

00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:45.440
this was true.

00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.440
He had had to assassinate a few people on orders.

00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:48.440
So I said, orders from who?

00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:50.440
He said, well, from New York.

00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:51.440
I said, whereabouts?

00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:52.440
He said, well, New York.

00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:54.600
I said, well, the Rockefeller Center.

00:21:54.600 --> 00:21:55.600
The Rockefeller Center?

00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:57.600
Ah, that's the headquarters of British Security

00:21:57.600 --> 00:21:59.600
Coordination in North America, which

00:21:59.600 --> 00:22:01.600
was run by a gentleman known to a lot of you,

00:22:01.600 --> 00:22:03.600
Sir William Stevenson, a Canadian, who

00:22:03.600 --> 00:22:05.600
was the man called Intrepid, whom Churchill

00:22:05.600 --> 00:22:07.600
had appointed to run the British Secret Service in North

00:22:07.600 --> 00:22:11.600
America until our own lapdog, General William Donovan,

00:22:11.600 --> 00:22:13.600
Wild Bill Donovan, head of the OSS,

00:22:13.600 --> 00:22:15.600
was appointed on our recommendation

00:22:15.600 --> 00:22:16.600
to head an American secret service.

00:22:16.600 --> 00:22:19.600
He was appointed by us, by the British, by Roosevelt.

00:22:19.600 --> 00:22:21.600
We appointed him, and then Roosevelt said yes,

00:22:21.600 --> 00:22:23.600
and Roosevelt then ran the American secret service,

00:22:23.600 --> 00:22:25.830
and he was our nominee.

00:22:25.830 --> 00:22:27.830
But back to this business of stag, I asked myself,

00:22:27.830 --> 00:22:30.830
why are we assassinating a foreign minister in a neutral

00:22:30.830 --> 00:22:33.830
or friendly country like Bogota, like Colombia?

00:22:33.830 --> 00:22:36.400
And the Colombians couldn't elucidate it for me,

00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:39.400
because I said, was this man a pro-Nazi,

00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:41.400
or what we would nowadays call a neo-Nazi,

00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:43.400
in the jargon of the media?

00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:45.820
The answer was no.

00:22:45.820 --> 00:22:47.820
Lopez de Mesa was particularly pro-British,

00:22:47.820 --> 00:22:49.820
known for his pro-British views.

00:22:49.820 --> 00:22:51.820
So why were we assassinating a pro-British foreign minister?

00:22:51.820 --> 00:22:54.010
Well, the answer is,

00:22:54.010 --> 00:22:56.010
Churchill wanted this man assassinated

00:22:56.010 --> 00:22:59.010
because he was due to retire anyway three weeks later.

00:22:59.010 --> 00:23:01.010
In Colombia, they have a kind of rotation system,

00:23:01.010 --> 00:23:03.010
and the minister was due to retire three weeks later

00:23:03.010 --> 00:23:05.010
and would be replaced by another.

00:23:05.010 --> 00:23:07.170
So he was expendable.

00:23:07.170 --> 00:23:09.170
He would be replaced by another pro-British foreign minister,

00:23:09.170 --> 00:23:11.170
and in the meantime, Churchill could announce to the world

00:23:11.170 --> 00:23:13.170
the Nazis have assassinated the pro-British foreign minister

00:23:13.170 --> 00:23:15.170
of Bogota, Colombia,

00:23:15.170 --> 00:23:17.170
in preparation for their own invasion.

00:23:17.170 --> 00:23:19.720
And then, of course, there was the business

00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:21.720
of the map of South America that Winston Churchill

00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:23.720
ordered his secret service to have printed and prepared,

00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:25.720
printed by British printers,

00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:27.720
but with German names,

00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:29.720
and then faked with German handwriting.

00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:31.720
I've seen it, it's in the Roosevelt archives now,

00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:33.720
without any kind of explanatory document.

00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:35.720
But I know from British sources that this document

00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:37.720
was faked by the British secret service,

00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:39.720
showing Hitler's plans to invade South America

00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:41.720
and then Latin America.

00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:43.720
The result was that President Roosevelt

00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:45.720
made a very stern warning

00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.720
in a broadcast on October 27, 1941,

00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:53.380
reading as follows.

00:23:53.380 --> 00:23:55.380
Hitler has often protested that his plans for conquest

00:23:55.380 --> 00:23:57.380
do not extend across the Atlantic Ocean.

00:23:57.380 --> 00:23:59.380
His submarines and raiders prove otherwise.

00:23:59.380 --> 00:24:01.380
Of course, at this time Roosevelt knew,

00:24:01.380 --> 00:24:03.380
just as Churchill did from code-breaking,

00:24:03.380 --> 00:24:05.380
that Hitler had ordered all his submarines

00:24:05.380 --> 00:24:07.380
and warships on no account to get involved

00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:09.380
in any kind of hostilities with American ships,

00:24:09.380 --> 00:24:11.380
despite provocations.

00:24:11.380 --> 00:24:13.890
So does the entire design of his new world order.

00:24:13.890 --> 00:24:15.890
For example, said Roosevelt in October 1941,

00:24:15.890 --> 00:24:17.890
I have in my possession a secret map

00:24:17.890 --> 00:24:19.890
made in Germany by Hitler's government

00:24:19.890 --> 00:24:21.890
by the planners of his new world order.

00:24:21.890 --> 00:24:23.890
It is a map of South America

00:24:23.890 --> 00:24:25.890
and a part of Central America

00:24:25.890 --> 00:24:27.890
as Hitler proposes to organize it.

00:24:27.890 --> 00:24:29.890
Remember, the map is faked

00:24:29.890 --> 00:24:31.890
by the British secret service.

00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:34.210
Today, in this area,

00:24:34.210 --> 00:24:36.210
there are 14 separate countries.

00:24:36.210 --> 00:24:38.210
The geographical experts of Berlin, however,

00:24:38.210 --> 00:24:40.210
have ruthlessly obliterated all existing boundary lines

00:24:40.210 --> 00:24:42.210
and have divided South America

00:24:42.210 --> 00:24:44.210
into five vassal states,

00:24:44.210 --> 00:24:46.210
bringing the whole continent

00:24:46.210 --> 00:24:48.210
under their domination.

00:24:48.210 --> 00:24:50.210
This map makes clear the Nazi design

00:24:50.210 --> 00:24:52.210
not only against South America,

00:24:52.210 --> 00:24:55.170
but against the United States itself.

00:24:55.170 --> 00:24:57.170
He may have been a blithering idiot,

00:24:57.170 --> 00:24:59.170
but he knew how to use the documents

00:24:59.170 --> 00:25:01.360
that the British secret service funneled to him.

00:25:01.360 --> 00:25:03.360
And the biggest provocation of all

00:25:03.360 --> 00:25:05.620
was Pearl Harbor.

00:25:05.620 --> 00:25:07.620
Now, here again we come up against

00:25:07.620 --> 00:25:09.620
great gaps in the archives.

00:25:09.620 --> 00:25:11.780
But there are only gaps that you're going to notice

00:25:11.780 --> 00:25:13.780
if you've got an open mind,

00:25:13.780 --> 00:25:16.070
which means that you're capable of thinking

00:25:16.070 --> 00:25:18.070
the most awful things thinkable.

00:25:18.070 --> 00:25:20.070
If, for example, you look at the private diary

00:25:20.070 --> 00:25:22.070
of the American Secretary of Defense

00:25:22.070 --> 00:25:24.070
in the months before Pearl Harbor,

00:25:24.070 --> 00:25:26.070
you don't notice these diaries,

00:25:26.070 --> 00:25:28.070
and you don't notice them unless you're

00:25:28.070 --> 00:25:30.070
prepared for these things.

00:25:30.070 --> 00:25:32.070
I've read those diaries again and again and again,

00:25:32.070 --> 00:25:34.070
and it wasn't until I suddenly started realizing

00:25:34.070 --> 00:25:36.070
that some pages had fewer lines than other pages

00:25:36.070 --> 00:25:38.070
that I realized that the diaries

00:25:38.070 --> 00:25:40.320
had been tampered with.

00:25:40.320 --> 00:25:42.320
Now, Stimson dictated his diary

00:25:42.320 --> 00:25:44.320
onto a dictaphone every day,

00:25:44.320 --> 00:25:46.320
sometimes 20 or 30 pages long.

00:25:46.320 --> 00:25:48.320
It's a very valuable source document for historians.

00:25:48.320 --> 00:25:50.320
But the trouble with diaries

00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:52.320
is that they can be faked and tampered with.

00:25:52.320 --> 00:25:54.770
The problem with the diary of Henry Stimson

00:25:54.770 --> 00:25:56.770
is that for the four months before Pearl Harbor,

00:25:56.770 --> 00:25:58.770
we find that some pages have been retyped

00:25:58.770 --> 00:26:00.770
by a different secretary.

00:26:00.770 --> 00:26:02.770
In other words, it's not months,

00:26:02.770 --> 00:26:04.770
but probably years later.

00:26:04.770 --> 00:26:06.770
Because secretaries have their own habits.

00:26:06.770 --> 00:26:08.770
They underline a date.

00:26:08.770 --> 00:26:10.770
They leave three spaces instead of two after a period.

00:26:10.770 --> 00:26:12.770
They indent by five spaces or six spaces

00:26:12.770 --> 00:26:14.770
instead of three or four.

00:26:14.770 --> 00:26:16.770
But they're consistent, the secretaries.

00:26:16.770 --> 00:26:18.770
So you can spot if a new hand has retyped a certain page.

00:26:18.770 --> 00:26:20.770
And of course, if the page is five or six lines shorter

00:26:20.770 --> 00:26:22.800
than the other pages on either side of it,

00:26:22.800 --> 00:26:24.800
it's retyped.

00:26:24.800 --> 00:26:26.800
And over those four months before Pearl Harbor,

00:26:26.800 --> 00:26:29.190
you find out that the pages have repeatedly been retyped.

00:26:29.190 --> 00:26:31.190
And over the few days before Pearl Harbor,

00:26:31.190 --> 00:26:33.190
December 3rd and December 4th,

00:26:33.190 --> 00:26:35.350
you find that the entire days have been retyped.

00:26:35.350 --> 00:26:37.350
And on Pearl Harbor Day itself,

00:26:37.350 --> 00:26:39.350
you find that on December 7th, 1941,

00:26:39.350 --> 00:26:41.440
page three almost has been completely retyped

00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:43.440
by whoever this new secretary was.

00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:45.860
And if you look at the days

00:26:45.860 --> 00:26:47.860
between November 9th, 1941

00:26:47.860 --> 00:26:49.860
and November 26th, 1941,

00:26:49.860 --> 00:26:51.860
three weeks before Pearl Harbor,

00:26:51.860 --> 00:26:53.860
at the height of the American-Japanese crisis,

00:26:53.860 --> 00:26:55.860
you find that he's been so careful

00:26:55.860 --> 00:26:57.860
in editing his own diary,

00:26:57.860 --> 00:26:59.860
he's cut out every reference to Japan

00:26:59.860 --> 00:27:01.860
and incidentally every reference to magic as well,

00:27:01.860 --> 00:27:03.860
which were very frequent in the previous diary pages.

00:27:03.860 --> 00:27:05.860
So you see that Stimson,

00:27:05.860 --> 00:27:07.860
for some reason,

00:27:07.860 --> 00:27:09.860
has gone through his own diaries

00:27:09.860 --> 00:27:11.860
months or years later,

00:27:11.860 --> 00:27:13.860
I'll tell you when in a minute,

00:27:13.860 --> 00:27:15.860
and he's obliterated everything relating to Japan,

00:27:15.860 --> 00:27:17.860
to magic and purple,

00:27:17.860 --> 00:27:20.150
because it would incriminate somebody.

00:27:20.150 --> 00:27:22.150
And here we have, by an extraordinary fluke,

00:27:22.150 --> 00:27:24.150
the exact day on which he was doing the faking,

00:27:24.150 --> 00:27:26.820
in 1944,

00:27:26.820 --> 00:27:28.820
he's telephoned by Henry Morgenthau,

00:27:28.820 --> 00:27:30.820
the American secretary of the treasury.

00:27:30.820 --> 00:27:32.820
Morgenthau is up to his eyeballs in deep trouble

00:27:32.820 --> 00:27:34.820
because of the Morgenthau plan

00:27:34.820 --> 00:27:36.820
and Dr. Goebbels, the Nazi propaganda minister,

00:27:36.820 --> 00:27:38.820
has announced that because of Morgenthau

00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:40.820
the American army is going to have

00:27:40.820 --> 00:27:42.820
to fight extra hard and has cost the lives

00:27:42.820 --> 00:27:44.820
of two divisions of GIs, the Morgenthau plan.

00:27:44.820 --> 00:27:46.820
Morgenthau telephones his cabinet colleagues

00:27:46.820 --> 00:27:48.820
to say it isn't so.

00:27:48.820 --> 00:27:51.970
And in his diary,

00:27:51.970 --> 00:27:53.970
I parked New York State,

00:27:53.970 --> 00:27:55.970
I found a penciled note written by Morgenthau,

00:27:55.970 --> 00:27:57.970
and it follows.

00:27:57.970 --> 00:27:59.970
8.45 p.m. telephoned Henry,

00:27:59.970 --> 00:28:01.970
Henry Stimson,

00:28:01.970 --> 00:28:03.970
at Coal Harbor Springs, 2010,

00:28:03.970 --> 00:28:05.970
and asked him to do something

00:28:05.970 --> 00:28:08.450
to counter these rumors about the two divisions.

00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:10.450
Henry sounded more tired than ever.

00:28:10.450 --> 00:28:12.450
He said he was tired out from working

00:28:12.450 --> 00:28:14.450
the last two weeks on the Pearl Harbor documents

00:28:14.450 --> 00:28:16.450
to keep out anything that might hurt the president.

00:28:16.450 --> 00:28:18.450
There you have it.

00:28:18.450 --> 00:28:20.900
The exact day when he's going through his own papers

00:28:20.900 --> 00:28:22.900
making all these changes.

00:28:22.900 --> 00:28:24.900
My conclusion is that in those two or three days

00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:26.900
we British not only knew

00:28:26.900 --> 00:28:28.900
about the Japanese war,

00:28:28.900 --> 00:28:30.900
but we knew who was going to be attacked,

00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:32.900
not only Britain and the Dutch East Indies,

00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:34.900
but also the United States,

00:28:34.900 --> 00:28:36.900
and very probably Churchill actually knew

00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:38.960
about Pearl Harbor.

00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:40.960
There's two gaps in the British archives.

00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:42.960
I've mentioned one of them already,

00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:44.960
the fact that the British archives

00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:46.960
make no reference whatsoever

00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:48.960
to the intercepted Japanese messages.

00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:50.960
And the other gap is another complex

00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:52.960
which historians are familiar with

00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:54.960
in connection with Pearl Harbor,

00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:56.960
and that is the so-called winds messages.

00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:58.960
On December 3rd and December 4th,

00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:00.960
those two days that have been heavily changed

00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:02.960
in the Stimson Diary,

00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:04.960
the Japanese government notified its

00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:06.960
ambassadors in Britain and Washington

00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:08.960
and in Hong Kong and in Singapore

00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:10.960
that they were to destroy

00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:12.960
their code machines,

00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:14.960
which is a sure sign that war is coming.

00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:16.960
You don't destroy your own code machines

00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:18.960
unless something pretty final is about to happen.

00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:20.960
And in a subsequent message

00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:22.960
the same ambassadors were told

00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:25.120
to destroy all their secret documents

00:29:25.120 --> 00:29:27.120
using special chemicals.

00:29:27.120 --> 00:29:29.120
So we knew that something ugly

00:29:29.120 --> 00:29:31.380
was about to happen.

00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:33.380
Those are the documents that are banished

00:29:33.380 --> 00:29:35.380
from Stimson's diary, of course.

00:29:35.380 --> 00:29:37.380
That's what's been cut out on those two days.

00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:39.380
The fact that he knew that war was about to come.

00:29:39.380 --> 00:29:41.380
But the question is with whom?

00:29:41.380 --> 00:29:43.380
The Americans rather hoped it would just be

00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:45.380
war against Britain and war against the Dutch East Indies

00:29:45.380 --> 00:29:47.380
because the Japanese urgently needed oil

00:29:47.380 --> 00:29:49.380
and other raw materials.

00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:51.890
They didn't really want war with the United States.

00:29:51.890 --> 00:29:54.340
This was the hope and the belief.

00:29:54.340 --> 00:29:56.340
No, because in a message on November 19th

00:29:56.340 --> 00:29:58.340
which we also decoded,

00:29:58.340 --> 00:30:00.340
the radio had notified these same ambassadors

00:30:00.340 --> 00:30:02.340
to listen out for weather broadcasts.

00:30:02.340 --> 00:30:04.340
Certain weather forecasts

00:30:04.340 --> 00:30:06.340
would be broadcast in ordinary Japanese

00:30:06.340 --> 00:30:08.340
without being coded

00:30:08.340 --> 00:30:10.340
on the regular weather service

00:30:10.340 --> 00:30:12.340
and on the regular radio broadcasts

00:30:12.340 --> 00:30:14.340
and by listening to certain cryptic messages

00:30:14.340 --> 00:30:16.340
buried in the middle of the weather forecast

00:30:16.340 --> 00:30:18.340
these Japanese ambassadors would know

00:30:18.340 --> 00:30:20.340
not only when the attack was going to come

00:30:20.340 --> 00:30:22.340
but which countries were going to be attacked.

00:30:22.340 --> 00:30:24.340
North winds, rain, west wind, mild

00:30:24.340 --> 00:30:26.340
would probably mean the United States being attacked.

00:30:26.340 --> 00:30:28.340
A similar cryptic message

00:30:28.340 --> 00:30:30.340
would mean that Japan was about to attack Russia.

00:30:30.340 --> 00:30:32.340
A similar message would mean Japan was about to attack Britain

00:30:32.340 --> 00:30:34.340
and by looking at the weather forecast

00:30:34.340 --> 00:30:36.340
on these dates

00:30:36.340 --> 00:30:38.340
which would be repeated twice

00:30:38.340 --> 00:30:40.340
the ambassadors would know

00:30:40.340 --> 00:30:42.340
even without the code machines

00:30:42.340 --> 00:30:44.340
which had been destroyed

00:30:44.340 --> 00:30:46.340
that war was about to happen against

00:30:46.340 --> 00:30:48.340
and as it turned out the message was broadcast

00:30:48.340 --> 00:30:50.340
early on December the 4th

00:30:50.340 --> 00:30:52.340
again one of the days that's been tampered with

00:30:52.340 --> 00:30:54.340
in the Stimson diary.

00:30:54.340 --> 00:30:56.340
Early on December the 4th

00:30:56.340 --> 00:30:58.340
the winds message was heard by the Americans

00:30:58.340 --> 00:31:00.340
but also the United States

00:31:00.340 --> 00:31:03.010
but that Russia was not going to be attacked.

00:31:03.010 --> 00:31:05.010
So we knew if we were also listening out

00:31:05.010 --> 00:31:07.010
and there's no doubt that Britain

00:31:07.010 --> 00:31:09.010
and the United States were listening out solidly

00:31:09.010 --> 00:31:11.010
from the moment we deciphered

00:31:11.010 --> 00:31:13.010
that winds message preparatory signal

00:31:13.010 --> 00:31:15.010
we were listening out solidly

00:31:15.010 --> 00:31:17.010
for the ominous weather forecasts

00:31:17.010 --> 00:31:19.010
we knew that Britain and America

00:31:19.010 --> 00:31:21.080
was going to be attacked

00:31:21.080 --> 00:31:23.080
and if we were reading JN25

00:31:23.080 --> 00:31:25.080
and I'm prepared to stake my head on it

00:31:25.080 --> 00:31:27.080
that we were reading that Japanese fleet operational code JN25

00:31:27.080 --> 00:31:29.080
we knew, Churchill knew

00:31:29.080 --> 00:31:31.300
that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked

00:31:31.300 --> 00:31:33.430
on the day it was.

00:31:33.430 --> 00:31:35.430
Question is of course the $1,000, $64,000 question

00:31:35.430 --> 00:31:37.430
did Churchill then tell President Roosevelt

00:31:37.430 --> 00:31:39.430
or did he decide to keep it to himself

00:31:39.430 --> 00:31:41.430
sitting back smugly and waiting

00:31:41.430 --> 00:31:43.560
for news of the attack?

00:31:43.560 --> 00:31:45.560
There's an interesting little highlight

00:31:45.560 --> 00:31:47.560
in Churchill's own memoirs

00:31:47.560 --> 00:31:49.560
which he still hadn't unpuzzled himself at that time

00:31:49.560 --> 00:31:52.040
on the evening of the Pearl Harbor attack

00:31:52.040 --> 00:31:54.040
when he still hadn't officially received news

00:31:54.040 --> 00:31:56.040
he invited the American ambassador

00:31:56.040 --> 00:31:58.040
to come and have dinner with him

00:31:58.040 --> 00:32:00.130
and in England of course

00:32:00.130 --> 00:32:02.130
the main radio news broadcast

00:32:02.130 --> 00:32:04.130
was always at 9pm

00:32:04.130 --> 00:32:06.130
and a few minutes before 9pm

00:32:06.130 --> 00:32:08.130
Churchill had the butler bring in

00:32:08.130 --> 00:32:10.130
the little portable radio set

00:32:10.130 --> 00:32:12.130
and stood on the dinner table

00:32:12.130 --> 00:32:14.130
and at 9pm he lifted the lid

00:32:14.130 --> 00:32:16.130
which switched on the radio

00:32:16.130 --> 00:32:18.260
and waited confidently for the BBC news broadcast

00:32:18.260 --> 00:32:20.260
which would announce the American attack on Pearl Harbor

00:32:20.260 --> 00:32:22.260
and rather to his puzzlement

00:32:22.260 --> 00:32:24.260
after this little radio set had warmed up

00:32:24.260 --> 00:32:27.030
of course that's from the old days of the old radio sets

00:32:27.030 --> 00:32:29.030
which took a minute or two to warm up

00:32:29.030 --> 00:32:31.030
the first one or two lines of the BBC news broadcast

00:32:31.030 --> 00:32:33.030
and the newscaster was not mentioning Pearl Harbor at all

00:32:33.030 --> 00:32:35.030
the broadcaster just said

00:32:35.030 --> 00:32:37.030
meanwhile General Montgomery's attack

00:32:37.030 --> 00:32:39.030
in the western desert is making great progress

00:32:39.030 --> 00:32:41.030
against Field Marshal Rommel

00:32:41.030 --> 00:32:43.030
and the rest of the news broadcast

00:32:43.030 --> 00:32:45.030
was almost entirely devoted to that

00:32:45.030 --> 00:32:47.320
so Churchill rather irritably turned the radio off

00:32:47.320 --> 00:32:49.320
and Winant, the American ambassador

00:32:49.320 --> 00:32:51.320
also describes this curious scene in his diary

00:32:51.320 --> 00:32:53.320
and in his manuscript papers

00:32:53.320 --> 00:32:55.320
without realizing that he had

00:32:55.320 --> 00:32:57.730
witnessed I think

00:32:57.730 --> 00:32:59.730
the final proof that Churchill expected

00:32:59.730 --> 00:33:01.730
the attack on Pearl Harbor

00:33:01.730 --> 00:33:03.730
it was Churchill expected of course

00:33:03.730 --> 00:33:05.730
that the BBC news would be swamped with this

00:33:05.730 --> 00:33:07.730
extraordinary announcement from Honolulu

00:33:07.730 --> 00:33:09.730
so I got in touch with the BBC

00:33:09.730 --> 00:33:11.730
and they gave me an actual photocopy of the script

00:33:11.730 --> 00:33:13.730
that was used on the night of the Pearl Harbor attack

00:33:13.730 --> 00:33:15.730
the 9pm broadcast shows

00:33:15.730 --> 00:33:17.730
that in fact the news arrived so late

00:33:17.730 --> 00:33:19.730
in the BBC broadcasting house

00:33:19.730 --> 00:33:21.730
it was just written in as one and a half lines

00:33:21.730 --> 00:33:23.730
at the top of the news

00:33:23.730 --> 00:33:25.730
the newsreader saying something like

00:33:25.730 --> 00:33:27.730
we are getting news of an attack by the Japanese

00:33:27.730 --> 00:33:29.730
on the American fleet in Hawaii

00:33:29.730 --> 00:33:31.730
however the other main item of today's news

00:33:31.730 --> 00:33:33.730
is the attack by Montgomery in the western desert

00:33:33.730 --> 00:33:35.730
so Churchill missed what he'd been waiting for

00:33:35.730 --> 00:33:38.120
and I think that this is the final clue

00:33:38.120 --> 00:33:40.120
that he knew what was going on

00:33:40.120 --> 00:33:42.120
there is one more clue incidentally

00:33:42.120 --> 00:33:44.120
in the private diary of Cecil King

00:33:44.120 --> 00:33:46.120
Cecil King, a famous British newspaper owner

00:33:46.120 --> 00:33:48.120
and proprietor and chief editor

00:33:48.120 --> 00:33:50.310
Sunday Mirror, the Daily Mirror group

00:33:50.310 --> 00:33:52.310
Sunday Pictorial

00:33:52.310 --> 00:33:54.310
these newspaper people in Britain were very powerful potentates

00:33:54.310 --> 00:33:56.310
during the war, Churchill couldn't silence them completely

00:33:56.310 --> 00:33:58.310
and they had their ear to the ground

00:33:58.310 --> 00:34:00.310
and they knew a lot of secrets about what was going on

00:34:00.310 --> 00:34:02.690
which they of course didn't reveal in their newspapers

00:34:02.690 --> 00:34:04.690
but they were perfectly genuine

00:34:04.690 --> 00:34:06.690
are in the University of Boston, Massachusetts library

00:34:06.690 --> 00:34:08.690
because Cecil King, an Irishman

00:34:08.690 --> 00:34:10.690
didn't want them to come into an English archives

00:34:10.690 --> 00:34:12.690
so we English have to go to a Boston, Massachusetts

00:34:12.690 --> 00:34:14.690
to look at them

00:34:14.690 --> 00:34:16.690
and on December 17, 1941

00:34:16.690 --> 00:34:18.690
Cecil King writes in his diary about a lunch he's had

00:34:18.690 --> 00:34:20.690
with Hugh Cudlip

00:34:20.690 --> 00:34:23.240
who is a fellow newspaper owner and director

00:34:23.240 --> 00:34:25.240
Hugh's most sensational item was

00:34:25.240 --> 00:34:27.240
that we had given the Americans five days warning

00:34:27.240 --> 00:34:29.680
on Pearl Harbor

00:34:29.680 --> 00:34:31.680
may be true, may be untrue

00:34:31.680 --> 00:34:33.680
but it's another little clue, another little grain of truth

00:34:33.680 --> 00:34:35.680
another little mosaic stone

00:34:35.680 --> 00:34:37.680
which points very much in the direction

00:34:37.680 --> 00:34:39.680
of how we dragged the United States into the war

00:34:39.680 --> 00:34:41.680
of course after we got the United States into the war

00:34:41.680 --> 00:34:43.680
it didn't really matter

00:34:43.680 --> 00:34:45.680
the United States were then in for it

00:34:45.680 --> 00:34:47.680
hell for leather

00:34:47.680 --> 00:34:49.680
the Japanese had not just dented the American fleet

00:34:49.680 --> 00:34:51.680
at Pearl Harbor

00:34:51.680 --> 00:34:53.680
they had sunk three quarters of the American battleships

00:34:53.680 --> 00:34:55.680
three quarters of the American Pacific fleet

00:34:55.680 --> 00:34:57.680
in this appalling attack

00:34:57.680 --> 00:34:59.680
very cleverly, very skillfully executed

00:34:59.680 --> 00:35:01.680
they had repeated exactly the same as the attack at Port Arthur

00:35:01.680 --> 00:35:03.680
in the First World War you remember

00:35:03.680 --> 00:35:05.680
and we had said what magnificent bravado

00:35:05.680 --> 00:35:07.680
and daring and courage was shown by the Japanese

00:35:07.680 --> 00:35:09.680
in 1941 it was a day of infamy

00:35:09.680 --> 00:35:11.680
that's the way that things change of course

00:35:11.680 --> 00:35:14.130
and a few days later

00:35:14.130 --> 00:35:16.130
Churchill went to the White House

00:35:16.130 --> 00:35:18.130
and he was one of their most honored guests

00:35:18.130 --> 00:35:20.130
in the White House

00:35:20.130 --> 00:35:22.130
December 1941

00:35:22.130 --> 00:35:24.130
and he invited President Roosevelt to come and visit him in his quarters

00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:26.130
and you know

00:35:26.130 --> 00:35:28.130
the condition in which he received President Roosevelt

00:35:30.130 --> 00:35:32.320
Roosevelt found Mr. Churchill standing there

00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:34.320
completely naked

00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:36.640
in the middle of his bedroom

00:35:36.640 --> 00:35:38.640
I don't know what the psychological explanation for it is

00:35:38.640 --> 00:35:40.710
it's

00:35:40.710 --> 00:35:42.710
I'm not a psychiatrist

00:35:42.710 --> 00:35:44.710
but it's an undeniable fact

00:35:44.710 --> 00:35:46.710
it's in the private diaries of all those around Churchill

00:35:46.710 --> 00:35:48.960
another gap in our knowledge

00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:50.960
I've talked about the academics before

00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:52.960
they don't really do research

00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:54.960
they don't have time to do research

00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:56.960
and this is why

00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:58.960
you frequently find that the academics

00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:00.960
in the universities are in the front line

00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.960
of the demand that I should not be allowed

00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:04.960
for heaven's sake to speak to their students

00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:06.960
and the students will afterwards come to them with questions

00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:08.960
I've frequently said this

00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:10.960
a professor who isn't being quoted by other professors

00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:12.960
doesn't really exist

00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:14.960
it's a kind of philosophical concept

00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:16.960
they've got to go around catching support from their fellow academics

00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:18.960
in a kind of bilateral trading agreement

00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:20.960
if I quote you in my book

00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:22.960
do you promise to quote me in your book

00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:24.960
and this is a kind of bilateral agreement

00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:26.960
and they've got four of them quoting each other

00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:28.960
and then eight and ten and twenty professors

00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.960
all saying the same thing

00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:32.960
so gradually whatever absurd thesis has occurred

00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:35.090
and has germinated in the mind of one of them

00:36:35.090 --> 00:36:37.090
is that it has become a fact

00:36:37.090 --> 00:36:39.090
whether it was ever a fact or not

00:36:39.090 --> 00:36:41.280
and you only have to take certain aspects

00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:43.280
of second world war history in Germany

00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:45.280
to realize that there are whole areas of German history

00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.280
which have so many German professors' names

00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:49.280
stamped on them

00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:51.280
that it has now become a fact

00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:53.280
and regardless of whether it's a logical fact or not

00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:55.280
and whether it's implausible or not

00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.280
or whether prima facie seems unlikely

00:36:57.280 --> 00:36:59.280
that even a madman would do these things

00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.280
so many professors like

00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:03.280
and

00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:05.280
have stamped their names on these absurd things

00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:07.280
that the students are forced to believe them

00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:09.280
because the students say

00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:11.280
well if my superior says this

00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:13.280
and if I want it past my examination

00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:15.640
then I'm going to have to say it too

00:37:15.640 --> 00:37:17.640
and so these facts take off

00:37:17.640 --> 00:37:19.640
like the Goodyear blimp sailing around

00:37:19.640 --> 00:37:21.640
the gorgeous German countryside

00:37:21.640 --> 00:37:23.640
with the names of all these professors stamped on the side

00:37:23.640 --> 00:37:25.800
and they exist

00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:27.800
and the professors after a time get nervous

00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:29.800
that somebody's going to come along and prick this balloon

00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:31.800
but I'm das Stachelfein

00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:33.830
I go around and I

00:37:33.830 --> 00:37:35.830
I bring it down eventually

00:37:35.830 --> 00:37:37.830
and they're desperately trying to

00:37:37.830 --> 00:37:39.830
wall in these beliefs they've got

00:37:39.830 --> 00:37:41.830
rather like some holy religion

00:37:41.830 --> 00:37:43.830
there are certain things that in Germany

00:37:43.830 --> 00:37:45.830
you cannot now attack

00:37:45.830 --> 00:37:47.830
or impugn the integrity of

00:37:47.830 --> 00:37:49.830
you cannot say for example

00:37:49.830 --> 00:37:51.830
I don't believe in gas chambers

00:37:51.830 --> 00:37:53.860
because if you do you go to prison in Germany

00:37:53.860 --> 00:37:55.860
it has become a fact

00:37:55.860 --> 00:37:57.960
anchored in German criminal law

00:37:57.960 --> 00:37:59.960
we don't have that kind of thing in Canada

00:37:59.960 --> 00:38:01.960
you have facts of which people take judicial notice

00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:03.960
they do kind of

00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:10.880
it's the same kind of thing but different

00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:13.720
if I can just very briefly

00:38:13.720 --> 00:38:15.720
at the end of this talk

00:38:15.720 --> 00:38:17.720
look at this particular fact

00:38:17.720 --> 00:38:19.720
which is bothering a lot of us now

00:38:19.720 --> 00:38:21.720
and has begun bothering me since I gave evidence in a trial

00:38:21.720 --> 00:38:23.720
here in Toronto in April last year

00:38:23.720 --> 00:38:25.720
it's implausible

00:38:25.720 --> 00:38:27.720
and it's untrue

00:38:27.720 --> 00:38:29.720
I wrote for ten years a biography of Adolf Hitler

00:38:29.720 --> 00:38:31.720
I've just written another biography

00:38:31.720 --> 00:38:33.720
on Hermann Göring

00:38:33.720 --> 00:38:35.720
who was the second man under Hitler

00:38:35.720 --> 00:38:37.720
and Hermann Göring signed a famous document in July 1941

00:38:37.720 --> 00:38:39.720
ordering Heydrich to carry out

00:38:39.720 --> 00:38:41.720
the Gesamtlösung der Judenfrage

00:38:41.720 --> 00:38:43.720
a comprehensive solution to the Jewish problem

00:38:43.720 --> 00:38:45.720
and of course into that kind of vague words

00:38:45.720 --> 00:38:47.720
you can read any kind of meaning you want

00:38:47.720 --> 00:38:49.750
and the böswilliger

00:38:49.750 --> 00:38:51.750
the malicious German historians

00:38:51.750 --> 00:38:53.750
read into it a deliberately evil interpretation

00:38:53.750 --> 00:38:55.750
and an objective historian

00:38:55.750 --> 00:38:57.750
looks at it and says

00:38:57.750 --> 00:38:59.750
well we know from what Hermann Göring was up to before the war

00:38:59.750 --> 00:39:01.750
and we know from what the Germans were up to before the war

00:39:01.750 --> 00:39:03.750
that it's probably a quite innocent explanation

00:39:03.750 --> 00:39:05.840
let me read to you a few documents

00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:07.840
which again the historians have never ever seen before

00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:09.840
but which are so important

00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:11.840
if I can find them

00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:13.840
that they really deserve to be taken cognizance of

00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:16.520
writing my Churchill biography

00:39:16.520 --> 00:39:18.520
I came across a number of letters

00:39:18.520 --> 00:39:21.120
written by Heinrich Brüning

00:39:21.120 --> 00:39:23.120
now Heinrich Brüning

00:39:23.120 --> 00:39:25.120
is not a Nazi of course

00:39:25.120 --> 00:39:27.120
he's an anti-Nazi

00:39:27.120 --> 00:39:29.120
he was known as the last chancellor of the Weimar Republic

00:39:29.120 --> 00:39:31.120
he wasn't exactly the last

00:39:31.120 --> 00:39:33.120
but he was the last important chancellor of the Weimar Republic

00:39:33.120 --> 00:39:35.120
he had to fight inflation

00:39:35.120 --> 00:39:37.120
he had to fight all sorts of catastrophic problems in Germany

00:39:37.120 --> 00:39:39.120
one of which was the rise of the Nazi party

00:39:39.120 --> 00:39:41.320
and Heinrich Brüning

00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:43.320
after he fled to safety

00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:45.320
Heinrich Brüning

00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:47.320
after he fled to safety in 1934

00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:49.320
just before the night of the long knives

00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:51.320
he came to Britain

00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:53.320
he lived in Oxford for a few years

00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:55.320
corresponded with Winston Churchill

00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:57.380
and then he came to the United States

00:39:57.380 --> 00:39:59.380
and I'm going to read to you a couple of excerpts

00:39:59.380 --> 00:40:01.380
from letters by Brüning

00:40:01.380 --> 00:40:03.380
who was an anti-Nazi

00:40:03.380 --> 00:40:05.380
to give you an idea of what was the problem

00:40:05.380 --> 00:40:07.730
that existed in Germany before the wars

00:40:07.730 --> 00:40:09.730
what particularly angered Brüning

00:40:09.730 --> 00:40:11.730
was the fact that the people who had

00:40:11.730 --> 00:40:13.730
supported and financed the Nazi party in 1928

00:40:13.730 --> 00:40:15.730
were not the people you would expect

00:40:15.730 --> 00:40:17.800
and he wrote about this in a letter to Winston Churchill

00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:19.800
on August 28, 1937

00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.080
Churchill was at that time

00:40:22.080 --> 00:40:24.080
living in the wilderness in Britain

00:40:24.080 --> 00:40:26.080
he had no kinds of income from any regular sources

00:40:26.080 --> 00:40:28.080
except as a member of parliament

00:40:28.080 --> 00:40:30.080
but he kept in touch with

00:40:30.080 --> 00:40:32.080
interesting statesmen from around the world

00:40:32.080 --> 00:40:34.080
and Brüning wrote him this letter

00:40:34.080 --> 00:40:36.080
on August 28, 1937

00:40:36.080 --> 00:40:38.440
in which he said

00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:40.440
well he talked about the people who had financed the Nazi party

00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:42.440
in part the French secret service

00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:44.440
and in part certain banks in Berlin

00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:46.440
and Churchill was so shocked by this letter

00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:48.440
that he wanted to quote Brüning's letter

00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:50.440
in his memoirs

00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:52.440
The Second World War

00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.500
that six-volume history which Churchill published after World War II

00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:56.500
and in 1948 Brüning wrote him a letter forbidding it

00:40:56.500 --> 00:40:58.560
and I have both letters

00:40:58.560 --> 00:41:00.560
because although the Churchill family

00:41:00.560 --> 00:41:02.560
have refused to allow me access

00:41:02.560 --> 00:41:04.630
or anybody else access to the Churchill archives

00:41:04.630 --> 00:41:06.630
they're anxious to protect the reputation of the grand old man

00:41:06.630 --> 00:41:08.630
it's always possible to encircle archives

00:41:08.630 --> 00:41:10.630
so to speak

00:41:10.630 --> 00:41:12.690
if you go to all the other archives around the world

00:41:12.690 --> 00:41:14.690
and you wrote a letter

00:41:14.690 --> 00:41:16.690
he keeps the carbon copy

00:41:16.690 --> 00:41:18.690
the original goes in the files of Stalin or Ribbentrop

00:41:18.690 --> 00:41:20.690
or Eisenhower or Truman or Roosevelt

00:41:20.690 --> 00:41:22.690
whoever it is

00:41:22.690 --> 00:41:24.690
so you can kind of replicate the Churchill archives

00:41:24.690 --> 00:41:26.690
and I found this Brüning letter in the archives of Time Life

00:41:26.690 --> 00:41:28.690
which were publishing the Churchill memoirs

00:41:28.690 --> 00:41:30.690
because Brüning wrote simultaneously

00:41:30.690 --> 00:41:32.690
to the magazine saying

00:41:32.690 --> 00:41:34.690
please don't publish that letter I wrote in 1937

00:41:34.690 --> 00:41:36.920
because it is tragic and awkward

00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:38.920
I did not

00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:40.920
Brüning wrote to Churchill in 1948

00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:42.920
and I do not even today

00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:44.920
wish to reveal that from October 1928

00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:46.920
the two largest regular contributors

00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:48.920
to the Nazi party

00:41:48.920 --> 00:41:50.920
were the general managers of two of the largest Berlin banks

00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:53.560
both of a certain faith

00:41:53.560 --> 00:41:55.560
which I won't identify

00:41:55.560 --> 00:41:57.560
because I don't want to be open to accusations

00:41:57.560 --> 00:41:59.560
and one of them

00:41:59.560 --> 00:42:01.590
the leader of Zionism in Germany

00:42:01.590 --> 00:42:03.590
now this was what worried Brüning

00:42:03.590 --> 00:42:05.590
that at the time that he was chancellor

00:42:05.590 --> 00:42:07.590
he was fighting a Nazi party

00:42:07.590 --> 00:42:09.590
that was being mysteriously funded

00:42:09.590 --> 00:42:11.620
by the biggest banks in Berlin

00:42:11.620 --> 00:42:13.620
in 1943 he went to America

00:42:13.620 --> 00:42:15.620
and he lived in exile

00:42:15.620 --> 00:42:17.620
here he died a few years ago in fact

00:42:17.620 --> 00:42:19.620
Brüning lived in exile in America

00:42:19.620 --> 00:42:21.620
and in America he wrote an extraordinary 13 page document

00:42:21.620 --> 00:42:23.620
on the problems that he had suffered

00:42:23.620 --> 00:42:25.620
in Germany

00:42:25.620 --> 00:42:28.450
and during the first years of the Nazi regime

00:42:28.450 --> 00:42:30.450
he said after the inflation

00:42:30.450 --> 00:42:32.450
there was only one big bank in Germany

00:42:32.450 --> 00:42:34.450
not controlled by Jews

00:42:34.450 --> 00:42:36.680
and some of them were utterly corrupt

00:42:36.680 --> 00:42:38.680
when the banks came under government control

00:42:38.680 --> 00:42:40.680
in 1931 meaning his government

00:42:40.680 --> 00:42:42.680
by the word control I think he means

00:42:42.680 --> 00:42:44.680
Kontrolle which means supervision

00:42:44.680 --> 00:42:46.680
he came under government supervision in 1931

00:42:46.680 --> 00:42:48.800
our findings of dishonesty

00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:50.800
were kept secret by my government

00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:52.800
for fear of provoking

00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:54.800
anti-semitic riots

00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:56.800
this was the problem he had long before

00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:58.800
Hitler came to power in 1931

00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.800
and he's writing this remember in America in 1943

00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:02.840
and he goes on to say

00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:04.840
morally wrong and distasteful as it is for the Nazis

00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:06.840
to put Jews in the concentration camps in Poland

00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:08.840
and we all agree that

00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:10.840
the same action by the Soviet government

00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:12.840
after the Russian occupation of the eastern part of Poland

00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:15.190
cannot have been morally superior

00:43:15.190 --> 00:43:17.190
the tactical abuse of uncontested moral principles

00:43:17.190 --> 00:43:19.190
which began during the last war

00:43:19.190 --> 00:43:21.190
has destroyed the scale of moral values

00:43:21.190 --> 00:43:23.190
all over the world and we are now suffering for it

00:43:23.190 --> 00:43:25.220
he calls for a commission

00:43:25.220 --> 00:43:27.220
to be established by governments after the war

00:43:27.220 --> 00:43:29.250
to find out the truth as to what happened

00:43:29.250 --> 00:43:31.250
which countries have been responsible for atrocities

00:43:31.250 --> 00:43:33.250
and not just Germany

00:43:33.250 --> 00:43:35.250
it's an interesting thing Brüning what a brave man

00:43:35.250 --> 00:43:37.250
living in occupied

00:43:37.250 --> 00:43:39.250
living as an exile in the United States

00:43:39.250 --> 00:43:41.250
calling for an inquiry into atrocities

00:43:41.250 --> 00:43:43.250
committed by all the governments after the war

00:43:43.250 --> 00:43:45.250
not just by the Nazi government

00:43:45.250 --> 00:43:47.350
he's an anti-Nazi

00:43:47.350 --> 00:43:49.350
then he goes a bit further

00:43:49.350 --> 00:43:51.350
he demands an investigation of the

00:43:51.350 --> 00:43:53.350
because he doesn't believe the official version

00:43:53.350 --> 00:43:55.920
and he says

00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:57.920
it has been disastrous for the Jews in Germany

00:43:57.920 --> 00:43:59.920
that at the beginning of the Nazi regime

00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:01.920
the occasional ill-treatment of Jews

00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:04.440
and he emphasizes the word occasional

00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:06.530
was exaggerated

00:44:06.530 --> 00:44:08.530
by the foreign correspondents living in Berlin

00:44:08.530 --> 00:44:10.530
in other words the newspaper men

00:44:10.530 --> 00:44:12.530
who deliberately

00:44:12.530 --> 00:44:14.660
the stories of atrocities against Jews

00:44:14.660 --> 00:44:16.660
for whatever reasons

00:44:16.660 --> 00:44:18.660
and he's a Nazi

00:44:18.660 --> 00:44:20.660
a former prime minister of Germany

00:44:20.660 --> 00:44:22.660
and he's witnessing it

00:44:22.660 --> 00:44:24.660
and you're silent of course because you've never heard this before

00:44:24.660 --> 00:44:26.880
Brüning your view about Brüning is probably quite different

00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:28.880
in the spring of 1933 foreign correspondents reported

00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:30.880
that the river Spree was covered with the corpses of murdered Jews

00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:32.880
and at that time hardly any Jews

00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:34.880
except the leaders of the communist party

00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:36.880
and two or three leaders of the social democratic party

00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:39.560
had ever been attacked

00:44:39.560 --> 00:44:42.160
well what happened in the Reichskristallnacht

00:44:42.160 --> 00:44:44.160
we do know that there were

00:44:44.160 --> 00:44:46.160
an appalling pogrom that night

00:44:46.160 --> 00:44:48.260
November 1938

00:44:48.260 --> 00:44:50.260
these are gaps in our knowledge really

00:44:50.260 --> 00:44:52.260
because we know the results

00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:54.260
but we don't know the causes

00:44:54.260 --> 00:44:56.260
and it was Winston Churchill my main character this evening

00:44:56.260 --> 00:44:58.260
who said the job of a historian is to find out what happened and why

00:44:58.260 --> 00:45:00.260
well we know what happened that night

00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:02.260
we know that nameless hands wearing Nazi uniforms

00:45:02.260 --> 00:45:04.260
or not wearing Nazi uniforms

00:45:04.260 --> 00:45:06.260
burned down synagogues

00:45:06.260 --> 00:45:08.260
and destroyed thousands of Jewish shops

00:45:08.260 --> 00:45:10.260
and murdered 91 Jews

00:45:10.260 --> 00:45:12.290
an appalling atrocity against the Jewish people in Germany

00:45:12.290 --> 00:45:14.290
but we're not really sure who did it

00:45:14.290 --> 00:45:16.290
because it has never really properly been investigated

00:45:16.290 --> 00:45:18.290
the only documents in the archives

00:45:18.290 --> 00:45:20.290
show the top Nazis

00:45:20.290 --> 00:45:22.290
frantically peddling all night

00:45:22.290 --> 00:45:24.290
sending out telegrams trying to stop the madness

00:45:24.290 --> 00:45:26.290
here for example Rudolf Hess

00:45:26.290 --> 00:45:28.290
and I've read this one out before but I make no apology

00:45:28.290 --> 00:45:30.290
three lines again

00:45:30.290 --> 00:45:32.290
on the headed notepaper of Rudolf Hess

00:45:32.290 --> 00:45:34.290
an unordnung

00:45:34.290 --> 00:45:36.290
deputy of Hitler

00:45:36.290 --> 00:45:38.290
in other words the numbers of two men under Hitler

00:45:38.290 --> 00:45:40.290
issued that same night November the 10th 1938

00:45:40.290 --> 00:45:42.290
on express orders from the very highest level

00:45:42.290 --> 00:45:44.290
and that can only be Hitler himself

00:45:44.290 --> 00:45:46.290
there are to be no outrages or acts of arson whatsoever

00:45:46.290 --> 00:45:48.290
against the Jewish people under any circumstances

00:45:48.290 --> 00:45:50.480
those telegrams went out all night long

00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:52.480
throughout Germany

00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:54.710
but it was too late of course

00:45:54.710 --> 00:45:56.710
the damage had been done

00:45:56.710 --> 00:45:58.710
and I can only begin to hint at who may have been responsible

00:45:58.710 --> 00:46:00.710
by reading out or rather paraphrasing

00:46:00.710 --> 00:46:02.710
what Adolf Eichmann wrote in the report that he wrote

00:46:02.710 --> 00:46:05.380
in November 1937

00:46:05.380 --> 00:46:07.380
here we are

00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:09.380
you don't know this

00:46:09.380 --> 00:46:11.380
but Adolf Eichmann went to Palestine

00:46:11.380 --> 00:46:13.380
the modern state of Israel

00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:15.380
in November 1937 at the invitation of the Zionist leaders

00:46:15.380 --> 00:46:17.380
and when he came back he reported

00:46:17.380 --> 00:46:19.380
on the secret conversations he had had

00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:21.380
he wrote a 37 page report on it here

00:46:21.380 --> 00:46:23.380
November 1937

00:46:23.380 --> 00:46:25.380
he reported on the secret conversations he had had

00:46:25.380 --> 00:46:27.380
with the leading Zionist underground members

00:46:27.380 --> 00:46:29.380
the gangsters and terrorists

00:46:29.380 --> 00:46:31.380
who subsequently became ministers

00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:33.380
in the subsequent state that was created in 1948

00:46:33.380 --> 00:46:35.380
he talked with the leaders of the Haganah

00:46:35.380 --> 00:46:37.380
and the leaders of the Sterngang

00:46:37.380 --> 00:46:39.380
and he came back and he wrote this report

00:46:39.380 --> 00:46:41.380
and he said that they were complaining to him

00:46:41.380 --> 00:46:43.380
about the quality of Jews who were coming to Palestine

00:46:43.380 --> 00:46:45.380
from Germany saying they were

00:46:45.380 --> 00:46:47.380
and they didn't want to take

00:46:47.380 --> 00:46:49.380
and they didn't want to take part

00:46:49.380 --> 00:46:51.380
in the construction job

00:46:51.380 --> 00:46:53.380
the important job of constructing the new state

00:46:53.380 --> 00:46:55.380
and they were complaining to him

00:46:55.380 --> 00:46:57.380
and he says this verbatim in his report

00:46:57.380 --> 00:46:59.380
about the lack of persecution in Germany

00:46:59.380 --> 00:47:01.380
and suggesting or hinting perhaps

00:47:01.380 --> 00:47:03.380
if you stepped up the screw

00:47:03.380 --> 00:47:05.380
if you turned the screw a bit

00:47:05.380 --> 00:47:07.380
on the Jews in Nazi Germany

00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:09.380
that will do us a favor because that will bring more people out

00:47:09.380 --> 00:47:11.380
here to Palestine

00:47:11.380 --> 00:47:13.380
and Brüning said the same thing

00:47:13.380 --> 00:47:15.380
in his document which I read earlier

00:47:15.380 --> 00:47:17.380
the 1943 report

00:47:17.380 --> 00:47:19.380
isn't it extraordinary he said that although we are now told about all this persecution

00:47:19.380 --> 00:47:21.380
he actually left Germany until 1938

00:47:21.380 --> 00:47:23.670
so we should

00:47:23.670 --> 00:47:25.670
really start asking important questions

00:47:25.670 --> 00:47:27.670
about that gap in our knowledge

00:47:27.670 --> 00:47:29.670
who really was at the back of

00:47:29.670 --> 00:47:31.670
the anti-Jewish pogroms

00:47:31.670 --> 00:47:33.670
the appalling atrocities that started in 1938

00:47:33.670 --> 00:47:35.920
and if we then go one stage further

00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:37.920
and look at how the actual Holocaust began

00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:39.920
there's no doubt at all

00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:41.920
that thousands and thousands of Jews were most brutally murdered

00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:43.920
and I mention it quite simply

00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:45.920
because not only

00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:47.920
I want to dissociate myself from any kind of suggestion

00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:49.920
that there was no crime and we all accept

00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:51.920
that there were awful crimes

00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:53.920
committed not only against the Jews

00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:55.920
but against large numbers of minorities

00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:57.920
and of course the German citizens

00:47:57.920 --> 00:47:59.920
if anybody deserves a monument erected to them for their bravery

00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:01.920
I think it's the German civilian population

00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:03.920
of whom we killed burned alive 2 million

00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:05.920
in the war years

00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:10.680
so there were atrocities on every side

00:48:10.680 --> 00:48:12.680
it's important to bear that kind of fact in mind

00:48:12.680 --> 00:48:14.900
because people say

00:48:14.900 --> 00:48:16.900
well if there was no gas chamber

00:48:16.900 --> 00:48:18.900
and I must say quite frankly

00:48:18.900 --> 00:48:20.900
that having attended the Elm Zündel trial in Toronto last April

00:48:20.900 --> 00:48:22.900
and having seen the evidence

00:48:22.900 --> 00:48:24.900
in the laboratories

00:48:24.900 --> 00:48:26.900
which was going to be submitted at that trial

00:48:26.900 --> 00:48:28.900
by which the judge ruled was not to be submitted

00:48:28.900 --> 00:48:31.090
so it never came out in open

00:48:31.090 --> 00:48:33.090
and it never went into the newspapers

00:48:33.090 --> 00:48:35.090
I became convinced and I became

00:48:35.090 --> 00:48:37.090
I can only describe myself

00:48:37.090 --> 00:48:39.090
a hardcore non-believer

00:48:39.090 --> 00:48:44.580
a hardcore non-believer that there was any gas chamber

00:48:44.580 --> 00:48:46.580
it has become something of an intellectual challenge for me now

00:48:46.580 --> 00:48:48.580
as a historian

00:48:48.580 --> 00:48:50.580
already coming under very severe attack

00:48:50.580 --> 00:48:52.580
to try and work out now

00:48:52.580 --> 00:48:54.580
how to convince my fellow historians

00:48:54.580 --> 00:48:56.580
that they too must start revising their opinions

00:48:56.580 --> 00:48:58.580
because it is already very late in the day

00:48:58.580 --> 00:49:00.580
this has become almost a religion

00:49:00.580 --> 00:49:02.580
investigating the truth of Auschwitz

00:49:02.580 --> 00:49:04.580
Treblinka, Majdanek

00:49:04.580 --> 00:49:06.580
these awful camps where very brutal treatment

00:49:06.580 --> 00:49:08.580
was certainly meted out to the prisoners

00:49:08.580 --> 00:49:10.580
has become something like

00:49:10.580 --> 00:49:12.580
sacrilege, something like trampling on a holy burial ground

00:49:12.580 --> 00:49:14.580
you mustn't do it

00:49:14.580 --> 00:49:16.580
and the thought that Elm Zündel and his men

00:49:16.580 --> 00:49:18.580
went there a year ago with buckets and chisels

00:49:18.580 --> 00:49:20.580
and spades and chiselled out bits of the inside

00:49:20.580 --> 00:49:22.580
of the so-called gas chambers

00:49:22.580 --> 00:49:24.580
and sent these fragments to American laboratories

00:49:24.580 --> 00:49:26.580
for analysis is almost

00:49:26.580 --> 00:49:28.580
too awful to contemplate

00:49:28.580 --> 00:49:30.580
it's like somebody going, well it's rather like

00:49:30.580 --> 00:49:32.580
the analysis of the Holy Shroud of Turin

00:49:32.580 --> 00:49:34.580
carrying out the most modern carbon dating

00:49:34.580 --> 00:49:36.580
techniques on a shroud that's been around

00:49:36.580 --> 00:49:38.580
perhaps several hundred years at a time when

00:49:38.580 --> 00:49:40.580
nobody ever knew about carbon dating techniques

00:49:40.580 --> 00:49:42.580
it's something sacrilegious

00:49:42.580 --> 00:49:44.580
but also I have to say that as a historian I'm rather ashamed

00:49:44.580 --> 00:49:46.580
that it never occurred to me to carry out

00:49:46.580 --> 00:49:48.580
the kind of tests on a building

00:49:48.580 --> 00:49:50.580
that I demanded in 1983 should be carried out

00:49:50.580 --> 00:49:52.580
on the Adolf Hitler diaries which eventually

00:49:52.580 --> 00:49:54.580
resulted in their being exposed

00:49:54.580 --> 00:49:56.580
I demanded that the Adolf Hitler diaries

00:49:56.580 --> 00:49:58.580
should be subjected to paper tests

00:49:58.580 --> 00:50:00.580
glue, ink, type,

00:50:00.580 --> 00:50:02.580
cover, everything should be analyzed

00:50:02.580 --> 00:50:04.580
to see if it had whiteners

00:50:04.580 --> 00:50:06.580
wet strength additives, all these modern

00:50:06.580 --> 00:50:08.580
additives that go into paper and glue and ink

00:50:08.580 --> 00:50:10.580
the chemical tests should be carried out

00:50:10.580 --> 00:50:12.580
but it's interesting you see because

00:50:12.580 --> 00:50:14.580
although I demanded those little minute tests

00:50:14.580 --> 00:50:16.610
into the Adolf Hitler diaries

00:50:16.610 --> 00:50:18.610
even I didn't spot the most glaring

00:50:18.610 --> 00:50:20.610
logical fact which should have told everybody

00:50:20.610 --> 00:50:22.680
that the thing was fake

00:50:22.680 --> 00:50:24.680
three days after I exposed the diaries at

00:50:24.680 --> 00:50:26.680
their Stern's press conference in April 1943

00:50:26.680 --> 00:50:28.680
I was on television program across all Germany

00:50:28.680 --> 00:50:30.680
broadcast on Wiesbaden

00:50:30.680 --> 00:50:32.680
and sitting across the table from me

00:50:32.680 --> 00:50:34.680
was the chief editor of Der Stern magazine

00:50:34.680 --> 00:50:36.680
taped up on the table between us

00:50:36.680 --> 00:50:38.680
were the 62 Adolf Hitler diaries

00:50:38.680 --> 00:50:40.680
they looked very convincing

00:50:40.680 --> 00:50:42.710
the handwriting was Hitler's

00:50:42.710 --> 00:50:44.710
the content was Hitler's

00:50:44.710 --> 00:50:46.710
they swore that it was Hitler's

00:50:46.710 --> 00:50:48.710
they had paid 6 million dollars for the diaries

00:50:48.710 --> 00:50:50.710
so the kind of money that nowadays

00:50:50.710 --> 00:50:53.000
governments offer on the head of an author

00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:55.000
Der Stern had paid to buy the Adolf Hitler diaries

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:57.000
so prima facie they looked genuine

00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:59.030
all identical diaries

00:50:59.030 --> 00:51:01.030
this meant that back in 1920 something

00:51:01.030 --> 00:51:03.030
Adolf Hitler went into his local WH Smiths

00:51:03.030 --> 00:51:05.030
and said I want to have 62 diaries please

00:51:05.030 --> 00:51:07.030
because I'm going to write a diary

00:51:07.030 --> 00:51:09.030
it's so big you overlook it

00:51:09.030 --> 00:51:11.030
and it's the big things that have got overlooked

00:51:11.030 --> 00:51:13.030
in the whole implausible story of

00:51:13.030 --> 00:51:15.030
whatever is now described as the Holocaust

00:51:15.030 --> 00:51:17.030
you're going to round up millions of people

00:51:17.030 --> 00:51:19.030
and you're going to kill them

00:51:19.030 --> 00:51:21.030
but before you kill them you're going to

00:51:21.030 --> 00:51:23.030
ship them 1500 miles away to somewhere else

00:51:23.030 --> 00:51:25.030
and do it

00:51:25.030 --> 00:51:27.030
and it doesn't make sense because the mere act of shipping them across Europe

00:51:27.030 --> 00:51:29.030
is going to alert the whole population to what's going on

00:51:29.030 --> 00:51:31.030
and if you're going to kill them anyway

00:51:31.030 --> 00:51:33.030
why not do it far more conveniently outside Amsterdam

00:51:33.030 --> 00:51:35.030
or Brussels or wherever you're rounding them up

00:51:35.030 --> 00:51:37.030
just the same as they rounded up these people outside Riga

00:51:37.030 --> 00:51:39.030
and shot them in the outskirts of that town

00:51:39.030 --> 00:51:41.030
if you're going to kill them anyway

00:51:41.030 --> 00:51:43.030
then why the transportation movement

00:51:43.030 --> 00:51:45.030
it's such a big and logical question

00:51:45.030 --> 00:51:47.030
nobody's asked it and nobody's answered it

00:51:47.030 --> 00:51:49.670
and this brings me back to that

00:51:49.670 --> 00:51:51.670
obnoxious character here in Canada

00:51:51.670 --> 00:51:53.670
who set that particular ball rolling

00:51:53.670 --> 00:51:55.670
and Ernst Zündel is obnoxious unfortunately

00:51:55.670 --> 00:51:57.670
he's obnoxious and he's a loudmouth

00:51:57.670 --> 00:51:59.670
and he's a self-publicist

00:51:59.670 --> 00:52:01.670
and he's even more obnoxious now

00:52:01.670 --> 00:52:03.760
because he's going to be proven right

00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:12.960
there's no way that he can't win

00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:14.960
this particular battle

00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:16.960
he's done his tests properly

00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:18.960
he's carried out the most expensive and costly tests

00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:20.960
on the fabric of those buildings in Poland

00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:22.960
at great risk to his team

00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:24.960
who went over there and under the very noses of the Polish centrist

00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:26.960
hammered away with hammer and chisel

00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:28.960
getting bits of this holy shrine

00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:30.960
20 kilograms of it and bringing it back

00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:32.960
and I've seen the laboratory tests

00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:34.960
and I know enough science and chemistry having studied at university

00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:36.960
we're talking here unlike history

00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:38.960
where opinions count

00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:40.960
we're talking here about an exact science

00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:42.960
you can't fake laboratory tests

00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:44.960
the historians

00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:46.960
have now got to convince me and explain to me

00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:48.960
how it's possible to kill hundreds of people

00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:50.960
in a room with hydrogen cyanide gas

00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:52.960
and have not the slightest trace of that gas

00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:54.960
remaining in the fabric

00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:56.960
he's carried out the most detailed tests

00:52:56.960 --> 00:52:58.960
in other buildings on those sites

00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:00.960
where we all know and this is common ground

00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:02.960
that hydrogen cyanide gas was used

00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:04.960
in the disinfectation chambers

00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:06.960
to disinfect the prisoners clothing

00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:08.960
and the soldiers clothing too

00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:10.960
used to disinfect this clothing from the lice plague

00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:12.960
that was bringing typhus right across Europe

00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:14.960
from 1942 onwards

00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:16.960
and in those walls you find

00:53:16.960 --> 00:53:18.960
1050 milligrams of

00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:20.960
cyanide

00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:22.960
per kilogram

00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:24.960
of substance

00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:26.960
so you find huge quantities of cyanide

00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:28.960
just where you would expect to find it

00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:30.960
but not in the suspect chambers

00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:32.960
and the other historians have got to convince me

00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:34.960
why this is so

00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:36.960
or to explain to me

00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:38.960
well they did they had a good attempt in Berkeley

00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:40.960
remember I spoke there 10 days ago

00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:42.960
and a couple of historians sitting in the front row

00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:44.960
they know the trouble they're in already

00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:46.960
and one of them stood up in question time and said

00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:48.960
Mr Irving on the point of information I want you to know

00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:50.960
that we now no longer believe

00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:52.960
that the Nazis used cyanide or cyclone B

00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:54.960
or hydrogen cyanide

00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:56.960
they were using carbon monoxide in the gas chambers

00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:59.440
laughter

00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:01.440
well I too jeered when I heard that

00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:03.440
because this means that here we are

00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:05.440
47 years later or so

00:54:05.440 --> 00:54:07.440
we're automatically backtracking on a story

00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:09.440
that they've had a good run for their money with

00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:11.440
over the last 40 or 50 years

00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:13.440
and it's a great tragedy

00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:15.440
because it is a tragedy what happened to the Jews

00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:17.440
and there's no denying it and it shouldn't have happened

00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:19.440
none of these mass killings should have occurred

00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:21.440
back in 1963 I coined the word

00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:23.440
Innocenticide the real crime of World War II

00:54:23.440 --> 00:54:25.440
and of subsequent wars

00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:27.440
like the Korean War and even more so the Vietnam War

00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:29.440
isn't the killing of Jews or any particular

00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:31.440
minority as such

00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:33.440
it's the killing of innocent people

00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:39.700
this was the crime of World War II

00:54:39.700 --> 00:54:41.700
but somehow

00:54:41.700 --> 00:54:43.700
they seem to have cornered the market

00:54:43.700 --> 00:54:45.700
and the Jews themselves are slightly embarrassed

00:54:45.700 --> 00:54:47.700
about this in Britain the Chief Rabbi

00:54:47.700 --> 00:54:49.700
Sir Emmanuel Jakubowitz now Lord Jakubowitz

00:54:49.700 --> 00:54:51.700
recently announced

00:54:51.700 --> 00:54:53.700
to the newspapers and you probably haven't seen it said over here

00:54:53.700 --> 00:54:55.700
he said the Holocaust has regrettably

00:54:55.700 --> 00:54:57.700
become big business

00:54:57.700 --> 00:54:59.700
it's become big business for Hollywood for the movie companies

00:54:59.700 --> 00:55:01.700
for the script writers the screenwriters

00:55:01.700 --> 00:55:08.050
well ladies and gentlemen I've talked to you

00:55:08.050 --> 00:55:10.050
this evening about

00:55:10.050 --> 00:55:12.050
the gaps in our knowledge

00:55:12.050 --> 00:55:14.050
it's not an easy job as you can imagine

00:55:14.050 --> 00:55:16.050
and I'm sure that it's going to be a lot

00:55:16.050 --> 00:55:18.050
more difficult as time goes on

00:55:18.050 --> 00:55:20.050
I'm going to write a book about it eventually

00:55:20.050 --> 00:55:22.050
we've done a lot of work on this particular

00:55:22.050 --> 00:55:24.050
matter I shall write a book probably

00:55:24.050 --> 00:55:26.050
on the archaeology of Auschwitz five or six years

00:55:26.050 --> 00:55:28.050
down the line it'll undoubtedly be the last book

00:55:28.050 --> 00:55:30.050
I write we've got the work

00:55:30.050 --> 00:55:32.050
we've got the photographs of Auschwitz I'm having the photographs

00:55:32.050 --> 00:55:34.050
reinterpreted by the Royal Air Force they supplied

00:55:34.050 --> 00:55:36.050
me with expert interpreters

00:55:36.050 --> 00:55:38.050
with the most modern equipment whereby you can see

00:55:38.050 --> 00:55:40.050
the people walking on the ground you can see the barbed wire

00:55:40.050 --> 00:55:42.050
strands the modern equipment is so fantastically

00:55:42.050 --> 00:55:44.050
good and I'm not

00:55:44.050 --> 00:55:46.050
in any illusions as to the kind of problems

00:55:46.050 --> 00:55:48.050
I'm going to be in after my Hitler book was published

00:55:48.050 --> 00:55:50.050
in 1977 published by the most reputable

00:55:50.050 --> 00:55:52.050
publishers all my books we've got some in the back there

00:55:52.050 --> 00:55:54.050
all my books are published by the world's

00:55:54.050 --> 00:55:56.050
most reputable publishers

00:55:56.050 --> 00:55:58.050
after that book I had my front door sledgehammered

00:55:58.050 --> 00:56:00.050
in a printing works was burned to the ground

00:56:00.050 --> 00:56:02.050
I had people raiding me disguised as

00:56:02.050 --> 00:56:04.050
post office engineers they all came from the same

00:56:04.050 --> 00:56:06.050
underground organisation in Britain and they all went to prison

00:56:06.050 --> 00:56:08.050
for it because they all got caught

00:56:08.050 --> 00:56:10.050
they too were blithering idiots

00:56:10.050 --> 00:56:12.050
they all got caught and they went to prison for it

00:56:12.050 --> 00:56:14.050
I'm certain that things will get harder

00:56:14.050 --> 00:56:16.080
but my message to you is

00:56:16.080 --> 00:56:18.080
when you see things in the newspapers

00:56:18.080 --> 00:56:20.120
don't take them

00:56:20.120 --> 00:56:22.120
even in Canada for being necessarily

00:56:22.120 --> 00:56:24.120
true I remember when I arrived in

00:56:24.120 --> 00:56:26.120
Canada three years ago to begin my

00:56:26.120 --> 00:56:28.120
first cross Canada speaking tour and I was met in

00:56:28.120 --> 00:56:30.120
Vancouver by a gentleman who said

00:56:30.120 --> 00:56:32.120
Mr Irving your speech here in Vancouver is going to be

00:56:32.120 --> 00:56:34.120
chaired we're very fortunate by Doug Christie

00:56:34.120 --> 00:56:36.120
who was the attorney for Mr Ernst Zundel

00:56:36.120 --> 00:56:38.120
and at that time I'm ashamed to say I was so

00:56:38.120 --> 00:56:40.120
shocked at the notion of being linked in any way

00:56:40.120 --> 00:56:42.120
with Zundel and with Doug Christie that I

00:56:42.120 --> 00:56:44.120
demanded I phoned Australia straight away and I said

00:56:44.120 --> 00:56:46.120
listen I don't want Doug Christie to chair this

00:56:46.120 --> 00:56:48.120
it's got to be somebody else we're really handing my head to the journalists

00:56:48.120 --> 00:56:50.310
on a plate doing that and then

00:56:50.310 --> 00:56:52.310
when I arrived in Toronto five or six days later

00:56:52.310 --> 00:56:54.310
having spoken in Chilliwackalowna and so on

00:56:54.310 --> 00:56:56.310
all the way across Canada

00:56:56.310 --> 00:56:58.310
arrived here at the airport driving along QEW

00:56:58.310 --> 00:57:00.310
the passenger in the front seat

00:57:00.310 --> 00:57:02.310
addressed the driver and he said well Ernst

00:57:02.310 --> 00:57:04.310
I think we're going to have to go

00:57:04.310 --> 00:57:06.310
I thought well Ernst

00:57:06.310 --> 00:57:08.310
it was Ernst Zundel who picked me up at the airport

00:57:10.310 --> 00:57:12.310
and I thought my god

00:57:12.310 --> 00:57:14.310
have I been recognised

00:57:14.310 --> 00:57:16.310
and I just want to give

00:57:16.310 --> 00:57:18.310
that as an example to you as

00:57:18.310 --> 00:57:20.310
the way that the press can assassinate

00:57:20.310 --> 00:57:22.310
a character if they want to

00:57:22.310 --> 00:57:24.310
and I don't blame the journalists because

00:57:24.310 --> 00:57:26.310
they know no better really

00:57:26.310 --> 00:57:28.310
they believe that anybody who is mad enough

00:57:28.310 --> 00:57:30.310
to say there were no gas chambers

00:57:30.310 --> 00:57:32.310
or to question accepted tenets

00:57:32.310 --> 00:57:34.310
of belief and almost religious belief

00:57:34.310 --> 00:57:36.310
is not really worthy of anything

00:57:36.310 --> 00:57:38.310
but contempt and it's going to be

00:57:38.310 --> 00:57:40.310
a very very hard job possibly an impossible

00:57:40.310 --> 00:57:42.310
job for Mr Zundel to restore his reputation

00:57:42.310 --> 00:57:44.310
in this country if he's allowed

00:57:44.310 --> 00:57:46.310
to stay in this country and that of course is an open question

00:57:46.310 --> 00:57:48.500
I'm not making any kind of plea for him

00:57:48.500 --> 00:57:50.500
it would be improper to do so here

00:57:50.500 --> 00:57:52.500
you are Canadians the pleas have to come from you

00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:54.500
I'm an Englishman

00:57:54.500 --> 00:57:56.500
but I regard my job as an English historian

00:57:56.500 --> 00:57:58.500
as the same as it has always been

00:57:58.500 --> 00:58:00.500
to preach the one creed that

00:58:00.500 --> 00:58:02.500
truth is indivisible

00:58:02.500 --> 00:58:04.500
you can't have truth for these people

00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:06.500
but not truth for those

00:58:06.500 --> 00:58:09.300
there is only one truth